OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[Josey Wales]

I have never ignored anyone here aside from one person, and it was because he liked to hurl personal attacks about 15 years ago. I don't even think he posts here anymore.



Yeah, I remember your name. I know many of those guys were just a bit older than a portion of us. There were a ton of us who would be in our mid-late 30's now, but there was a group that was just a little older than us who had kids and got married right around Sid's neck injuries, and they just never came back.



Agreed. This is the outcome we all dreamed of in 2004.



He's better than anything we would find as a #3 RB. A big reason I'd actually like to see him here is Bell is one of the most patient runners I've ever seen. He may also get Najee to lose weight. LBell until his contract dispute was one of the most dominant football players I've seen. He was absolutely HOF bound.

I'd love for someone to do a statistical analysis to project where Bell would have potentially ended up statistically.



I would agree. He had something like 9 kids to 8 women.



His agent shouldn't be allowed to represent anyone. He cost LB tens of millions of dollars. A good advisor would have not let him sit out.

Bell's agent Was Drew Rosenhaus

 

[JTG]

Bell's agent Was Drew Rosenhaus

Bell's agent was not Drew Rosenhaus. It is/was Adisa Bakari.

I believe AB used Rosenhaus.

 

[pistolpete11]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with this Bell nonsense.

Guys...Bell was a stud, but that was nearly 10 years ago. That's an eternity for an NFL RB. He was absolutely awful with the Jets, not much better with the Chiefs, and then not good enough to get touches with the Ravens and Bucs. And even THAT was 3 years ago which is the average career span of a RB. If you took his name out of it, this wouldn't be talked about at all.

"It's only RB3". And? I'd rather sign some undrafted kid who might actually turn into something. Even keeping it to somewhat recent history, look at the undrafted RB that have made an impact. Priest Holmes, Arian Foster, LaGarrette Blount, Fred Jackson, Willie Parker, Ryan Grant, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Pierre Thomas, Isaiah Crowell, CJ Anderson, Dominic Rhodes......If you expand it further into good RB2 (let alone RB3), you have guys like our very own Jaylen Warren. Your list would be a mile long.

There's no reason to sign Bell.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

While probably true, he might be as good as most RB4s though. Like I've no idea how cooked he is, but most RB4s aren't exactly great.

Bell didn't even look like a #3 RB his last few years. And now, a couple years later, people want to kick the tires? Bell is D.O.N.E

But maybe Warren gets hurt early in the year, and then Najee late....THEN the Steelers will ring-up Bell in an emergency because they don't have a reliable back for the playoffs.

He got some really bad advice in regards to his contract. Feels like every Rb at the time was almost putting pressure on him to change the contract market for RBs.

Funny how history repeats. Remember the "RB Summit" crap earlier this season?
It's almost like no one pays attention to what's occurred in the past.

Glad they at least went with Arth over London for the passing game coordinator. Glad they added a passing game coordinator in general, too.

Bringing Hines back would have been cool, but can't really complain about Azzani as just a WR coach, I guess. FWIW, he was at Central Michigan when AB was there.

Sullivan also officially back as the QB coach.

Ward was a non starter bc he threatened Tomlin's ego too much

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I feel for the players at the position.
They are some of the most talented players at the youth/HS level which is why they get put there. But then you get to the NFL and you're at a position that is totally saturated and your career lifespan is nil.

I'd definitely be thinking "I wish my HS/college coach put me at DB or LB, everything would be better. I have the physical talent to do it."

So it's an injustice. I'm not cool with my team rectifying it individually (have Bell eat up $15-$20M on the cap for 4-5 years) because that would have been stupid and impeded us from fielding a competitive team. But if the NFL and NFLPA want to create some renumeration for RBs league-wide I am all for it.

Well stated.

The voters basically said: MG is the best player on the best defense, ergo he's DPOY

I don't agree with it at all, but by that measure they got it right.

 

[JTG]

Well stated.

The voters basically said: MG is the best player on the best defense, ergo he's DPOY

I don't agree with it at all, but by that measure they got it right.

Didn't TJ miss out on a DPOY and the reasoning was the defense was so good?

I think TJ continuously getting snubbed is really sad and he should have three wins at this point. Donald stole one and now Garrett stole one.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Didn't TJ miss out on a DPOY and the reasoning was the defense was so good?

I think TJ continuously getting snubbed is really sad and he should have three wins at this point. Donald stole one and now Garrett stole one.

Just realized with all this talk on Watt, we are watching a HOF career get flushed down the toilet.

He’s on track to be the most dominant Steeler defensive player in my lifetime and he hasn’t even won a single playoff game.

 

[Peat]

Just realized with all this talk on Watt, we are watching a HOF career get flushed down the toilet.

He’s on track to be the most dominant Steeler defensive player in my lifetime and he hasn’t even won a single playoff game.

That's a proper Friday drinking thought

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's a proper Friday drinking thought

Have to have the discussion in 5-6 years, but Watt may surpass Woodson and Polo as the most dominant Steeler defensive player of not only the last 30 years, but in the modern era.

If he hangs around the Steelers with Tomlin Purgatory, he may never sniff a playoff win let alone a SB.

 

[JTG]

Just realized with all this talk on Watt, we are watching a HOF career get flushed down the toilet.

He’s on track to be the most dominant Steeler defensive player in my lifetime and he hasn’t even won a single playoff game.

JJ Watt, Donald, and LT are the only 3 that have 3 DPOY. TJ should have 3. It's one of the greatest robberies in NFL history.

Malkin in 2009 was the biggest robbery I can remember in sports until this. It was so clearly TJ this year, there shouldn't have been any other consideration.

Have to have the discussion in 5-6 years, but Watt may surpass Woodson and Polo as the most dominant Steeler defensive player of not only the last 30 years, but in the modern era.

If he hangs around the Steelers with Tomlin Purgatory, he may never sniff a playoff win let alone a SB.

Troy will always be #1 to me. TJ is a clear #2. Harrison #3. Porter #4. Casey Hampton #5. Minkah is probably there when it's all said and done.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

JJ Watt, Donald, and LT are the only 3 that have 3 DPOY. TJ should have 3. It's one of the greatest robberies in NFL history.

Malkin in 2009 was the biggest robbery I can remember in sports until this. It was so clearly TJ this year, there shouldn't have been any other consideration.

Also note that MG had a whopping 1 sack in his past 7 games. So for 43% of the season he didn't get home.

And if you want to throw pass rush win rate in my face. Well that's like you and your chick getting nekkid but not banging

 

[Josey Wales]

Bell's agent was not Drew Rosenhaus. It is/was Adisa Bakari.

I believe AB used Rosenhaus.

OH OK

Just realized with all this talk on Watt, we are watching a HOF career get flushed down the toilet.

He’s on track to be the most dominant Steeler defensive player in my lifetime and he hasn’t even won a single playoff game.

Most Of Big Ben's Career too

 

[The Old Master]

Just playing Devil's Advocate.

2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

Cleveland: 1st in Yds/Play, 1st in 1st downs allowed, 1st in drives leading to a score, 17th in turnovers, 2nd in expected points against, 8th in QB pressure % but middle of the pack in % of blitzing per play.

Steelers: 23rd in Yds/Play, 8th in 1st downs allowed, 12th in drives leading to a score, 7th in turnovers, 10th in expected points against, 10th in QB pressure % despite being 6th in blitzing.

So Cleveland's defense was much better than the Steelers.
Now, was TJ Watt far and away our best defensive player? Yes. Is he better than Garrett and did he outsack Garrett this year? Maybe and yes.
But I struggle to reconcile Garrett being a robbery while he was the best and most important player on probably the best defense in the league. While the Steelers were pretty mid defensively. All things being equal, it's harder to generate pressure when you start with your hand in the dirt against LTs than if you start lined up wide against RTs.

Part of me also doesn't want the Steelers to have nice things. Don't just lean on TJ defensively. Get substantively better.

when you are the top player on the team and there is no one to take the pressure off of you , it makes your job that much harder. tj was robed.

Troy will always be #1 to me. TJ is a clear #2. Harrison #3. Porter #4. Casey Hampton #5. Minkah is probably there when it's all said and done.

your a young one.

 

[Josey Wales]

Jenna Harner

@JennaHarner11

The Steelers officially announce three offensive coaching staff hires: - quarterbacks coach Tom Arth- wide receivers coach Zach Azzani- offensive assistant Mateo Kambui

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

JJ Watt, Donald, and LT are the only 3 that have 3 DPOY. TJ should have 3. It's one of the greatest robberies in NFL history.

Malkin in 2009 was the biggest robbery I can remember in sports until this. It was so clearly TJ this year, there shouldn't have been any other consideration.



Troy will always be #1 to me. TJ is a clear #2. Harrison #3. Porter #4. Casey Hampton #5. Minkah is probably there when it's all said and done.

It’s 1. Woodson 2. Polo 3. Watt for me.

I wasn’t around for the 70s guys so I’m sure some old timers would take Lambert, Greene or Blount.

Watt is in rarefied air though being only the second guy in history to hit 90 sacks in under 100 games.

Only other guy to pull that off is the most dominant player I ever saw - Reggie White.

If Watt has a few more dominant seasons he could put himself into the top ten all time for sacks.

That would swing my needle to put him over Polo.

 

[ChaosAgent]

when you are the top player on the team and there is no one to take the pressure off of you , it makes your job that much harder. tj was robed.

The Steelers whole defensive philosophy is to rush the passer so that their secondary can't be exploited. They need TJ to get home and so they move him around and let him go as wide as needed and create huge gaps for QBs and RBs as a result.
Whereas when I see Cleveland and Garrett, Garrett is reliably straightforward and plugging a gap. He's just also winning his matchup pretty often.

Also wasn't aware Heyward, Highsmith and Ogunjobi were scrubs.

I wouldn't trade TJ for Garrett but I find it hard to get too worked up about this. Tomlin's defense has been mediocre for years now and gets abused by any offense of quality. As great as TJ is I don't feel the fire for recognition on this defensive unit.

 

[JTG]

Also note that MG had a whopping 1 sack in his past 7 games. So for 43% of the season he didn't get home.

And if you want to throw pass rush win rate in my face. Well that's like you and your chick getting nekkid but not banging

You ain't lying! If he was great, he would have been willing that team to victory. He was a passenger half of the season.

when you are the top player on the team and there is no one to take the pressure off of you , it makes your job that much harder. tj was robed.


your a young one.

70's football and today's football I separate into two totally different games. The HOF comparison of players across generations really stopped for me in the 2000. Steelers before that point, totally different game and aside from Troy, no one is really touching anyone in that group.

It’s 1. Woodson 2. Polo 3. Watt for me.

I wasn’t around for the 70s guys so I’m sure some old timers would take Lambert, Greene or Blount.

Watt is in rarefied air though being only the second guy in history to hit 90 sacks in under 100 games.

Only other guy to pull that off is the most dominant player I ever saw - Reggie White.

If Watt has a few more dominant seasons he could put himself into the top ten all time for sacks.

That would swing my needle to put him over Polo.

See above - I'm not sure Troy could even play in the 70's. He had trouble staying healthy in his era.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You ain't lying! If he was great, he would have been willing that team to victory. He was a passenger half of the season.



70's football and today's football I separate into two totally different games. The HOF comparison of players across generations really stopped for me in the 2000. Steelers before that point, totally different game and aside from Troy, no one is really touching anyone in that group.



See above - I'm not sure Troy could even play in the 70's. He had trouble staying healthy in his era.

James Harrison at his peak was about as good as Watt is now. He was a better player during the 09 SB and 11 SB loss than Polamalu in my opinion.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You ain't lying! If he was great, he would have been willing that team to victory. He was a passenger half of the season.



70's football and today's football I separate into two totally different games. The HOF comparison of players across generations really stopped for me in the 2000. Steelers before that point, totally different game and aside from Troy, no one is really touching anyone in that group.



See above - I'm not sure Troy could even play in the 70's. He had trouble staying healthy in his era.

Possible Polo couldn’t survive the 70s, but Lambert would be too slow to be a Mike LB today.

They excelled in their eras and that’s honestly what counts.

For me Woodson will always be the best Steelers defensive player I ever saw.

Just a great cover corner and the best blitzing corner I ever saw.

He just made an ungodly amount of game changing plays.

 

[Peat]

The Steelers whole defensive philosophy is to rush the passer so that their secondary can't be exploited. They need TJ to get home and so they move him around and let him go as wide as needed and create huge gaps for QBs and RBs as a result.
Whereas when I see Cleveland and Garrett, Garrett is reliably straightforward and plugging a gap. He's just also winning his matchup pretty often.

Also wasn't aware Heyward, Highsmith and Ogunjobi were scrubs.

I wouldn't trade TJ for Garrett but I find it hard to get too worked up about this. Tomlin's defense has been mediocre for years now and gets abused by any offense of quality. As great as TJ is I don't feel the fire for recognition on this defensive unit.

TJ ain't the defensive unit and the defensive unit ain't TJ. It's not even I only want recognition for TJ - it's I think it shouldn't even come up. The fact the NFL seems to think this way bugs me.

I'd also point out that Heyward spent most of the season either injured or noticeably below NFL 100% and that Ogunjobi really did not do a lot last season. Looks like his foot injuries just aren't going away. TJ didn't have a lot of support, and the he didn't get a lot of support from the other part of the defensive philosophy which is where the secondary is meant to stay strong enough long enough for the pass rush to get home. Insofar as support comes into it, I'm really not seeing a lot there.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Can’t find it in myself to give a shit about TJ and DPOYs when they can’t figure out how to go on a playoff run or field an elite defense.

I agree it should’ve been him. It just seems like the focus is in the wrong places with this franchise. Watt would’ve been the DPOY had the unit and team been better. Zero doubt in my mind.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Can’t find it in myself to give a shit about TJ and DPOYs when they can’t figure out how to go on a playoff run or field an elite defense.

I agree it should’ve been him. It just seems like the focus is in the wrong places with this franchise. Watt would’ve been the DPOY had the unit and team been better. Zero doubt in my mind.

Cleveland won 1 more game than us and there unit was so good miles disappeared for weeks miles had 3 tackles in the playoffs

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The Steelers whole defensive philosophy is to rush the passer so that their secondary can't be exploited. They need TJ to get home and so they move him around and let him go as wide as needed and create huge gaps for QBs and RBs as a result.
Whereas when I see Cleveland and Garrett, Garrett is reliably straightforward and plugging a gap. He's just also winning his matchup pretty often.

Also wasn't aware Heyward, Highsmith and Ogunjobi were scrubs.

I wouldn't trade TJ for Garrett but I find it hard to get too worked up about this. Tomlin's defense has been mediocre for years now and gets abused by any offense of quality. As great as TJ is I don't feel the fire for recognition on this defensive unit.

Agree on Watt's situation, but Garrett is also primarily a pass rusher who abandons his gap and can be taken advantage of while running the ball. I'd have no issue if Crosby won the DPOY, who makes more of an impact on every play.

 

[tom_servo]

Probably amounts to nothing like every other time but I would love another team to get mad at

 

[ChaosAgent]

Agree on Watt's situation, but Garrett is also primarily a pass rusher who abandons his gap and can be taken advantage of while running the ball. I'd have no issue if Crosby won the DPOY, who makes more of an impact on every play.

I admit I'm okay with Watt not winning because the whole dialogue around the Steelers defense is warped in my mind.

TJ is a 1st ballot hall of famer and universally acknowledged as one of the 2-3 best players at the 2nd-3rd most premium position in the league. And has been for years. So he didn't win an individual award in a year where his defense allowed Bailey Zappe and the New England Patriots 3 1st half TDs coming off of 7 points in 2 games total total.

To me, that's enough. Football is the "ultimate team game." The team disqualified TJ from the award. Oh well. Still gonna make 9 figures and walk into the Hall of Fame playing football.