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[Pens1566]

I'm curious what backlash people think firing Tomlin would cause. I'm sure a few sports pundits would complain but it is not as if there would be mass protests or anything.

I think it is delusional to think ownership is like "we should totally fire Tomlin but can't because he's Black".

It would be mostly PR related. Something about hypocrisy and being where the "Rooney rule" started.

 

[WickedWrister]

Silver lining to the Texans, Bucs, and Packers winning is we slot behind their opponents in draft order. Would've picked like 23rd if they all lost?

 

[JTG]

They have him 17 f***ing years. I think the Steelers are far past the point of optics regarding a Tomlin firing. The message of coaches fade - color of skin has nothing to do with it.

 

[pistolpete11]

@pistolpete11 old thread was closed so replying here. McCarthy is likely going to struggle to find a HC position this offseason, so in the scenario Tomlin goes into next season without an extension, McCarthy would be first in line for the HC position in 2025.

That said, I don’t think Tomlin would be willing to go into the year without an extension, so that might be a moot point. Fingers crossed he steps down soon.

You may be right that he will struggle to find a HC job. It boggles my mind how that could be true when teams would be lining up to hire Tomlin. They are a lot more similar than they are different.

But I still don't think he'd take a coordinator position. I think he'd sit out a year like he did in 2019. Some team will be willing to take a shot on him again eventually. Whether it's a contending team or a team that would be happy to get to the playoffs. He's struggled in the playoffs as of late, but he's won 12 games 3 years in a row, too.

 

[Peat]

What a great time to change threads, during the busiest bout of conversation in the year.

Also re the PR optics of firing Tomlin... if the race issue matters so much, just hire another black HC after.

Although I think the Steelers' love of stability, full stadiums, and Tomlin's rep is more than enough - unless Tomlin is done himself.

 

[pistolpete11]

The Rooney Rule was to give minority coaches opportunities to interview for coaching positions, not give them HC gigs in perpetuity.

Race should not play a factor in firing Tomlin or who they would hire if he was gone.

 

[MrBrightside]

It's still very likely that Tomlin will be back, but if he's not, he's certainly not going to get "fired." It will come down as either his decision or mutual, regardless of whether that's true. But again, I think it's 75%+ that he's coaching here next season.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I still doubt that Tomlin is elsewhere next year.

But there at least is smoke there to indicate that it is a possibility. The discontent in the locker room and loss of the players', if not respect then let's say undivided attention and worship, bubbled over and was on display for all to say.

Not just Pickens acting juvenile, but among many, both former players and current who took shots.

Tomlin walking off the stage. Canada being fired mid-season.

All signs of a shorter rope.

I will say this. Whoever is hired is very likely going to have worse results and most likely will be not as good a coach. Tomlin never was a bad coach. Simply stubborn with some blind spots that kept him from being among the very top coaches.

None of that means that replacing him is not the right move. I see zero light at the end of the tunnel if things continue.

So, unless Tomlin can swallow pride and delegate, learn from the mistakes he keeps making, even if it is a step back it does not make it wrong to part ways.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

In he 9 years between Mcnabb and Maholmes Reid had 1 playoff win and missed the playoffs 3 times

 

[Peat]

In he 9 years between Mcnabb and Maholmes Reid had 1 playoff win and missed the playoffs 3 times

What about the Steelers' selection and development of young QBs under Tomlin makes you think he's going to find the QB that gets him out of this purgatory?

Everyone gets it is difficult without a QB.

Many might agree Tomlin manages it as well as anyone, although it's basically a useless skill.

The question is are the Steelers going to get that QB with Tomlin here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can't disagree with you more. The Steelers love being able to tout they have had 3 coaches in 50+ years and saying how that stability means why they are consistently "good" team. We ain't the Browns because of it, etc etc. ARII still thinks Tomlin is a good coach and is scared of change.

I think it’s a two fold thing.

AR2 is too cowardly to make a tough decision and would rather lean on the legacy of 3 coaches in the modern era, we are a model of consistency etc.

I doubt his decision has anything to do with race.

Now why people blindly defend him, we would be foolish to think it doesn’t play a part, and ya I know there are people who want him fired just because he’s black also.

Tomlin being one of only three black head coaches and now the longest tenured coach in the league, makes him a guy many people don’t want to see fail.

So excuses get made for him that are mind boggling because a lot of ppl refuse to see the truth that he’s run his course in Pgh.

 

[JTG]

Tomlin may very well be done himself. The thing that sucks is that I don't think he'd let us trade him. He'd just retire, let his contract run out, and then be free to go where ever he wants to.

It'd help the cause tremendously if he would be fine with being traded. Have to imagine a Sean Payton return is likely.

I will also say, if they fire the entire staff, keep Tomlin at the helm and bring in real coordinators, that is a win for everyone. Tomlin is stubborn. They have to show him that he doesn't have to micromanage and he can work 1/2 as hard and get 2x the results.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Tomlin may very well be done himself. The thing that sucks is that I don't think he'd let us trade him. He'd just retire, let his contract run out, and then be free to go where ever he wants to.

It'd help the cause tremendously if he would be fine with being traded. Have to imagine a Sean Payton return is likely.

I will also say, if they fire the entire staff, keep Tomlin at the helm and bring in real coordinators, that is a win for everyone. Tomlin is stubborn. They have to show him that he doesn't have to micromanage and he can work 1/2 as hard and get 2x the results.

Its a family decision I would imagine his wife wants to grow jer fashion business so if he was traded he would only agree to a limited number of teams. Its Atlanta or Chargers unless a NY teams ia open.
I think Tomlin would love to be ceo and farl out day to his assistants but Art has to pay more for quality assistants.
A late 1st in 25 a 2nd in 24 and we give up a 3rd that’s the Peyton package

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think it’s a two fold thing.

AR2 is too cowardly to make a tough decision and would rather lean on the legacy of 3 coaches in the modern era, we are a model of consistency etc.

I doubt his decision has anything to do with race.

Now why people blindly defend him, we would be foolish to think it doesn’t play a part, and ya I know there are people who want him fired just because he’s black also.

Tomlin being one of only three black head coaches and now the longest tenured coach in the league, makes him a guy many people don’t want to see fail.

So excuses get made for him that are mind boggling because a lot of ppl refuse to see the truth that he’s run his course in Pgh.

I never thought it was about race. Well, only very tangentially and in a way down secondary reason.

It is all about the transformation of the Rooney's from the legendary Art Rooney who was as blue collar as you could get. I mean winning the team in a poker game? Even though untrue, the story speaks volumes about who he was.

The newer generation Rooneys are educated ivory tower types who rub elbows with the rich and famous at cocktail parties and gather accolades from their rich friends by becoming the ambassador to Ireland and, yes, having a rule named after them to advance minority interests in the game. Nothing at all wrong with any of that except that it seems to have become the primary focus rather than actually winning when it counts. That alone may be where race comes into the picture at all. But all about reputation rather than any biases one way or the other. Again, a major part of the problem I argue for above.

By the way, the truth of the legend above is that Rooney was a big time gambler.

In1937, Rooney is rumored to have won $338,000 in a betting spree at the tracks. $338,000 in 1937 would be around $7.25 million today. And that was during the depression.

In 1936 he used some gambling winnings to pay all of the Steelers' salaries and hire away a well-regarded coach. Likely the start of the rumor.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/760922-pittsburgh-steelers-the-8-biggest-misconceptions-in-steelers-history

Its a family decision I would imagine his wife wants to grow jer fashion business so if he was traded he would only agree to a limited number of teams. Its Atlanta or Chargers unless a NY teams ia open.
I think Tomlin would love to be ceo and farl out day to his assistants but Art has to pay more for quality assistants.
A late 1st in 25 a 2nd in 24 and we give up a 3rd that’s the Peyton package

Atlanta is almost certainly hiring Belichick.

He just "interviewed" for the job. Do you really think that they will choose someone other than him?

Falcons interview Belichick for coaching vacancy

The Falcons announced Monday they have interviewed Bill Belichick for their head-coaching vacancy, the first known interview done by Belichick since he and the Patriots mutually parted ways last week.

www.espn.com

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Tomlin may very well be done himself. The thing that sucks is that I don't think he'd let us trade him. He'd just retire, let his contract run out, and then be free to go where ever he wants to.

It'd help the cause tremendously if he would be fine with being traded. Have to imagine a Sean Payton return is likely.

I will also say, if they fire the entire staff, keep Tomlin at the helm and bring in real coordinators, that is a win for everyone. Tomlin is stubborn. They have to show him that he doesn't have to micromanage and he can work 1/2 as hard and get 2x the results.

It's not just micromanaging though. He made the offense subservient to the defense. Almost another part of the defense.

He basically said 'don't make any turnovers, keep it as vanilla as hell and don't lose the game. The defense will keep it close and cross your fingers for a break (that the defense creates) to take advantage of.

It is the equivalent of the trap defense in hockey that we all hated so much. It can win games during the regular season, even some playoff games, and have an inferior team beat a more frustrated more skilled team. But it is extremely unlikely to win you a championship.

Therefore, Tomlin needs not only to delegate but to allow the new OC to actually run a real offense the way a modern offense is run.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If Atlanta hires Bill I wonder who the Gm will be. I wonder if brings Willson with him to play Qb cause at 8 Maye Caleb and the lsu kid are off the board

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It's not just micromanaging though. He made the offense subservient to the defense. Almost another part of the defense.

He basically said 'don't make any turnovers, keep it as vanilla as hell and don't lose the game. The defense will keep it close and cross your fingers for a break (that the defense creates) to take advantage of.

It is the equivalent of the trap defense in hockey that we all hated so much. It can win games during the regular season, even some playoff games, and have an inferior team beat a more frustrated more skilled team. But it is extremely unlikely to win you a championship.

Therefore, Tomlin needs not only to delegate but to allow the new OC to actually run a real offense the way a modern offense is run.

Tomlin let Ben throw it 50 times in his prime when he didn’t have a Qb he played close to the vest. Mason threw it 40 times against Buffalo.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

If Atlanta hires Bill I wonder who the Gm will be. I wonder if brings Willson with him to play Qb cause at 8 Maye Caleb and the lsu kid are off the board

I don't think it is certain that Daniels is off the board before Atlanta. That being said I don't think Bill will want to have to deal with a rookie QB. Though they do have a lot of other things in place. So I guess I could see a vet QB.

Does he maybe go with Garoppolo and they draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd. Or maybe he goes after Cousins.

That being said, I don't think he goes to Atlanta. My thought is he goes to Dallas. Seems like a Jerry move like when he hired Parcells. Plus he can promote it if Belichek sets the all time wins record (regular season and combined) as a Cowboy coach.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I can't stand Minkah. I think he is a good player but he just represents the line in the sand where they lost the plot. Trading a first round pick in the season where you lost your aging franchise QB to a throwing arm injury for him and then signing him to a ridiculous contract for what a player like him can impose on the field.

There are so many better ways of spending 20mil. I truly believe they could have two safeties making 5 mil a piece and get the same production.

If you want to criticize the trade, point to Tomlin. Because when Ben went down they were determined to not ensure Tomlin didn't have a losing season.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In he 9 years between Mcnabb and Maholmes Reid had 1 playoff win and missed the playoffs 3 times

Wait a second, didn't Reid get fired between that?

It's almost like firing a stale coach caused him to re-evaluate himself and change
What a concept. It's almost like what many of us here are suggesting: Tomlin needs to not be here anymore

Appreciate the assist of proving our points

It's not just micromanaging though. He made the offense subservient to the defense. Almost another part of the defense.

He basically said 'don't make any turnovers, keep it as vanilla as hell and don't lose the game. The defense will keep it close and cross your fingers for a break (that the defense creates) to take advantage of.

It is the equivalent of the trap defense in hockey that we all hated so much. It can win games during the regular season, even some playoff games, and have an inferior team beat a more frustrated more skilled team. But it is extremely unlikely to win you a championship.

Therefore, Tomlin needs not only to delegate but to allow the new OC to actually run a real offense the way a modern offense is run.

These beginning of the game stats are the result of:
1. Building a team whose style of play is inherently passive, i.e. play close to the vest and wait for the other team to make mistakes
2. Focus on possessing the ball and getting to manageable 3rd downs
3. Failure to anticipate the other team showing you something unexpected and continuing to operate as if what they’re doing doesn’t matter, i.e. we do what we do
4. Asinine gameplans. Like, you have to *plan* to run the ball up the middle with Najee? You have to plan to play vanilla defense?

I’ve been saying it for a long time now: my main problem with the focus to make the team competitive over the desire to make them a Super Bowl contender even if they’re worse in the short term is: they don’t spend the year determining how they will win against better teams in the playoffs— either finding a way that works for that or finding new players. Instead, they never push the limits of their players ability to learn or to face challenges like modern concepts and are satisfied with a competitive team who plays hards, keeps it close, and tries to win in the end. It’s not sustainable, especially in the postseason.

 

[JTG]

It is so wild to me that Bill is going to continue coaching. It just goes to prove these dude's do not do this stuff for money - it is a way of life.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Who the f*** is Chris Mueller??

 

[ChaosAgent]

Who the f*** is Chris Mueller??

Fan personality who is pretty good/negative about the Steelers but takes self-deprecating schtick way too far. He is on right now, hence the tweet.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Who the f*** is Chris Mueller??

He is one of the hosts of the afternoon show on 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh. The local sports radio talk station.