OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[CheckingLineCenter]

Hate to “overreact” and be knee jerky so flame me if this ages poorly but I already think the Bears made a mistake in taking Williams over Daniels

 

[T1K]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838366960599601545

 

[xlm34]

Hate to “overreact” and be knee jerky so flame me if this ages poorly but I already think the Bears made a mistake in taking Williams over Daniels

I think Caleb Williams was way overhyped. I still think he could be good and the Bears offensive line is a travesty, but there’s a big difference between running around and making crazy plays against a PAC-12 defense and doing it against an NFL defense.

I definitely did not expect Daniels to look as good as he has though. It’s pretty awesome though - he’s a fun player.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think Caleb Williams was way overhyped. I still think he could be good and the Bears offensive line is a travesty, but there’s a big difference between running around and making crazy plays against a PAC-12 defense and doing it against an NFL defense.

I definitely did not expect Daniels to look as good as he has though. It’s pretty awesome though - he’s a fun player.

It’ll get harder as he puts more and more on film but I’ve seen enough to put him over Williams.

I wasn’t the biggest JD guy out of school either, I should have been.

 

[pistolpete11]

I won't call them out by name (mainly because I don't remember who they were), but some people called me crazy for not buying into the Lawrence hype before the draft. Always struck me as a crazy talented athlete who could dominate college, but had some big questions at the next level. So far, he hasn't answered those questions, certainly not for the hype he was receiving.

Burrow on the other hand, jumped out to me as an NFL QB. I mean, look at the LSU-Clemson National Championship. I know the rosters may not be equal in college, but Burrow was 31-49 for 463 yards and 5 TD. Lawrence was 18-37 for 234 yards and 0 TD.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I won't call them out by name (mainly because I don't remember who they were), but some people called me crazy for not buying into the Lawrence hype before the draft. Always struck me as a crazy talented athlete who could dominate college, but had some big questions at the next level. So far, he hasn't answered those questions, certainly not for the hype he was receiving.

Burrow on the other hand, jumped out to me as an NFL QB. I mean, look at the LSU-Clemson National Championship. I know the rosters may not be equal in college, but Burrow was 31-49 for 463 yards and 5 TD. Lawrence was 18-37 for 234 yards and 0 TD.

I def bought in to the overwhelming majority with Lawrence

Burrow was so obviously that guy by like October 2019. Way he carried himself and his game.. idk how anyone wasn’t sold.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Also agree T Law still looks like an athlete playing QB, it’s not natural. I’m not desperate to write him off, definitely not writing Williams off either… I think QB is insanely hard and it simply takes some guys a long time and different stops to improve (Geno Smith and Baker are good examples, Darnold looks like another maybe).

The hardest thing in sports is to correctly pick what college QBs will be upper echelon stars in the league. Legit think if any of us could do it consistently we could get 7 figs plus from an NFL team even without any background in football

 

[pistolpete11]

I def bought in to the overwhelming majority with Lawrence

Burrow was so obviously that guy by like October 2019. Way he carried himself and his game.. idk how anyone wasn’t sold.

I don't know that anyone did question Burrow. I'm just saying he was a guy that jumped out as an NFL QB in college. Lawrence didn't IMO.

Also agree T Law still looks like an athlete playing QB, it’s not natural. I’m not desperate to write him off, definitely not writing Williams off either… I think QB is insanely hard and it simply takes some guys a long time and different stops to improve (Geno Smith and Baker are good examples, Darnold looks like another maybe).

The hardest thing in sports is to correctly pick what college QBs will be upper echelon stars in the league. Legit think if any of us could do it consistently we could get 7 figs plus from an NFL team even without any background in football

Agreed on both accounts, but when someone gets that much hype and you have some dummy on the internet like me saying "You sure about that?", it makes you wonder why these guys are getting paid 7 figures to be this wrong.

To be more fair, I'm not even saying they were wrong drafting him 1OV. I just think the hype was way out of line. I dunno. Maybe I'm just sick of the constant over hyping of 18-21 year olds in all sports. Crosby and McDavid only come around every so often, but we still have to hear every year about who's going to win the Lafreniere-stakes!!1

 

[JTG]

Hate to “overreact” and be knee jerky so flame me if this ages poorly but I already think the Bears made a mistake in taking Williams over Daniels

I said that during the process. Daniels is definitely a better pro prospect, IMO. I honestly don't see it with Williams. I didn't see it at USC, and I do not see it now. Talented dude but he looked like a great college QB. I'd take Raiola, Arch, and a couple other guys over Williams right now that are playing in college.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Appealing to “authority” (or tv talking heads) is certainly amusing. It also highlights just how little people know about the QB position and are just operating with a confirmation bias.

Justin Fields is not a good QB. He’s a backup quality guy running around out there in a safety blanket offense. This offense is not going to threaten anyone unless Russell comes back with some kind of throwback form. Unfortunately, that’s unlikely.

 

[JTG]

Fields is grading out as a top 10 QB right now. Our RBs do not rank in the top 60 thus far. James Daniels is currently grading out as the 2nd best OL in the league. Frazier grading out as top 10 C. Anderson and Jones have been brutal. McCormick has been outstanding is pass protection. Really intriguing OL prospect for us.

Watt and Herbig are two of the top ranked players in the league defensively currently. In the top 30 - Cam Heyward, Cory Trice, and DeShaun Elliot. Keeanu Benton has a crazy good pass rushing grade, but appears to be getting beat in the run. Patrick Queen has been our lowest graded player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Appealing to “authority” (or tv talking heads) is certainly amusing. It also highlights just how little people know about the QB position and are just operating with a confirmation bias.

Justin Fields is not a good QB. He’s a backup quality guy running around out there in a safety blanket offense. This offense is not going to threaten anyone unless Russell comes back with some kind of throwback form. Unfortunately, that’s unlikely.

I don't understand why you can't just shut the hell up and take your Ls rather than just double down and looking like a clown.

At least wait for Fields to start playing badly to screech about how much he sucks. Acting like you're some QB genius while literally everyone else (including guys like the QB Coach who was speaking glowingly of Fields) is just an idiot just makes you look like a clown.

 

[Ryder71]

Hate to “overreact” and be knee jerky so flame me if this ages poorly but I already think the Bears made a mistake in taking Williams over Daniels

Daniels will be the best out of those top three IMO. His ability to process the game and his ability to read defenses supersedes the other two. Never thought much of Maye.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Going into this season I thought that:

1. This defense is top 3 in the league.
2. Fields is still a developing player and could turn into a good QB (albeit with high highs and low lows).

After the first 3 games:

1. This defense might be 2008 Steelers level good.
2. Fields already looks like a good QB: and has done so with a questionable OL, WR depth, inconsistent rushing game, and against quality defenses.

I am definitely eating crow on Patterson, as I thought it was overkill to sign him based on kickoff returns(?) and that we already had a great 1-2 punch in Harris/Warren. And I was mad when they were forcing reps to him the first 2 games, but in hindsight they really should have just shut down Warren and let him heal completely. He’s a dang good utility player and the kind of RB teams don’t want to be tackling in the 4th quarter.

 

[WickedWrister]

Fields is grading out as a top 10 QB right now. Our RBs do not rank in the top 60 thus far. James Daniels is currently grading out as the 2nd best OL in the league. Frazier grading out as top 10 C. Anderson and Jones have been brutal. McCormick has been outstanding is pass protection. Really intriguing OL prospect for us.

Watt and Herbig are two of the top ranked players in the league defensively currently. In the top 30 - Cam Heyward, Cory Trice, and DeShaun Elliot. Keeanu Benton has a crazy good pass rushing grade, but appears to be getting beat in the run. Patrick Queen has been our lowest graded player.

James Daniels being the #1 guard in football (per PFF) is so random lol. Like sure, having Frazier next to him is probably beneficial but number ONE?

 

[DanielPlainview]

I don't understand why you can't just shut the hell up and take your Ls rather than just double down and looking like a clown.

At least wait for Fields to start playing badly to screech about how much he sucks. Acting like you're some QB genius while literally everyone else (including guys like the QB Coach who was speaking glowingly of Fields) is just an idiot just makes you look like a clown.

Or how about you stop having a mental breakdown every time someone lays down reality for you about the QB.

Fields is only “ranking highly” because he’s been in close games that haven’t demanded the team throw the ball. It’s been a hand-holding effort for him. That is NOT the sign of a good QB and SHOULD NOT be confused with actual top level QBing. How so many of you can so easily have the wool pulled over your eyes is amazing to see, really.

 

[Pengwins]

James Daniels being the #1 guard in football (per PFF) is so random lol. Like sure, having Frazier next to him is probably beneficial but number ONE?

wasnt they guy Tomlin cut #1 last year? lol

 

[The Old Master]

Fields is only “ranking highly” because he’s been in close games that haven’t demanded the team throw the ball. It’s been a hand-holding effort for him. That is NOT the sign of a good QB and SHOULD NOT be confused with actual top level QBing. How so many of you can so easily have the wool pulled over your eyes is amazing to see, really.

staying out of those games makes him a good qb. imo

 

[Empoleon8771]

Or how about you stop having a mental breakdown every time someone lays down reality for you about the QB.

Fields is only “ranking highly” because he’s been in close games that haven’t demanded the team throw the ball. It’s been a hand-holding effort for him. That is NOT the sign of a good QB and SHOULD NOT be confused with actual top level QBing. How so many of you can so easily have the wool pulled over your eyes is amazing to see, really.

The only person in here having a mental breakdown is you.

Literally everyone else is saying "Fields has clearly taken a step forward and is playing well', whether it be QB analysts, former QBs, analytics or whatever else you want to look at. You're just coming in here screeching like a disgruntled ex (which I know it's because he replaced your golden boy Pickett) and repeating the three same talking points you've said non-stop.

You provide literally zero value or substance with your analysis beyond "because I say so" and then you call everyone else stupid for not agreeing with it. It's nauseating to read. It literally sounds like you're a 14 year old who thinks he's a genius because he took an IQ test online.

 

[WickedWrister]

Same status quo answer from Tomlin re: Fields and Russ

Highsmith likely OUT

Warren and Seumalo Questionable

No limitations on Najee

 

[Peat]

staying out of those games makes him a good qb. imo

He stays out of those games because he's on a team with a horrifying defence and that loves to run the ball. Him not turning the ball over helps but that's it. There's nothing he can do to stay out of those games if the defence is swiss cheese and there's only so much he can do to help the run game either.

It's why that Chargers game is so impressive to me because they couldn't run it for a half, they put it on his arm, and it worked against a good defence. Well. I guess 7 points and three 3 and outs from 5 possessions isn't working that great but it could have been a ton worse. 3 scoring drives and what could have easily been a fourth if they didn't decide to kneel it out in the 5 in the second half is good though, even if the Chargers reacted like a Total War army whose general has died when Justin Herbert went off injured.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yeah, 32 passing attempts is probably at or near the upper limit for what Arthur Smith wants to do in a neutral game script. Not the perfect comparison, but check Tannehills 2019 game logs

 

[ImporterExporter]

We're 3 games in folks. I've said it many times and I'll say it many more. We live in an instant gratification society/world and lack the patience to actually analyze things like football performances accurately.

Fields is not some elite QB. I don't think anyone believes that.

With that being said, if he can continue to take care of the ball, make enough plays to get us 20ish points a game, this team will win more games than they won't. The D is that good.

Fields is also young enough, coming from a dumpster fire of an org (Chicago) which should lead people to conclude he has room to grow. How much is debatable, but that Chargers game was proof he can go through progressions and make quality, high level NFL throws.

We have the brutal back 3rd of a schedule, so let's enjoy the wins and somewhat surprising play, and then evaluate what we have in Fields (and company) when the going gets real tough.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, 32 passing attempts is probably at or near the upper limit for what Arthur Smith wants to do in a neutral game script. Not the perfect comparison, but check Tannehills 2019 game logs

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Yeah I think the expectation for a good game for Fields is going about 18 for 25 with 250 yards per game with 2 total TDs (whether it be passing or his rushing TDs) and no turnovers. I think that's pretty similar to what Tannehill was in 2019 and I figure that's about the ceiling for what a QB can be in this system.

 

[Ryder71]

We didn't run very effectively until late. Fields largely carried the offense for three quarters.

It's a small sample size thus far but he's improving each game in a restrictive/conservative approach and making the most of it. His ability to read defenses and quickly go through his progressions is better than advertised.