OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[WickedWrister]

 

[pistolpete11]

Anyone, including analysts and former QBs, saying Fields has been 'good' is grading him on a curve of low expectations and that they are 3-0. If they were 0-3, they would be saying they need more out of him. He hasn't been asked to do much and he hasn't screwed that up. That's not a knock. It's just the truth.

 

[Ryder71]

Anyone, including analysts and former QBs, saying Fields has been 'good' is grading him on a curve of low expectations and that they are 3-0. If they were 0-3, they would be saying they need more out of him. He hasn't been asked to do much and he hasn't screwed that up. That's not a knock. It's just the truth.

He can only do what the OC tells him to do. Yet he was 25 for 32 for 245 against a very good defense. Our running game was nearly non existent the majority of the game. I get your point but I would say relative to the system Smith incorporates Fields has done well. His ability to quickly check down is better than I thought. I'm not saying he's Mahomes here. But I do think there's reason for optimism.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Anyone, including analysts and former QBs, saying Fields has been 'good' is grading him on a curve of low expectations and that they are 3-0. If they were 0-3, they would be saying they need more out of him. He hasn't been asked to do much and he hasn't screwed that up. That's not a knock. It's just the truth.

Okay, please provide the statistical proof that Fields has only been "good" based on a curve. Please show how his numbers compare to the rest of the league and how he's only being graded on this arbitrary "curve".

He can only do what is being called by the OC. He doesn't need to be slinging 50 yard downfield bombs to be playing well.

 

[OnMyOwn]

His rating is above 90 for the year. I’d say that’s good enough for now.

 

[pistolpete11]

Okay, please provide the statistical proof that Fields has only been "good" based on a curve. Please show how his numbers compare to the rest of the league and how he's only being graded on this arbitrary "curve".

27th in yards
T-24th in TD
21st in Y/A
24th in Y/C
12th in Passer Rating
21st in QBR
24th in scoring offense
24th in total offense

He has a high completion percentage and isn't turning the ball over. Better than some expected, but not what I'd call 'good'.

He can only do what is being called by the OC. He doesn't need to be slinging 50 yard downfield bombs to be playing well.

As I said, he's not being asked to do a lot and he isn't screwing that up.

 

[T1K]

Great opportunity for Herbig

 

[Ryder71]

His rating is above 90 for the year. I’d say that’s good enough for now.

95.3 I believe.

If he wins AND looks good doing so Sunday, I think you really need to cement him as QB1. I'm 80% there now, but still wanna see a bit more.

 

[T1K]

My only concern with the offense is the poor rushing efficiency.

 

[Empoleon8771]

27th in yards
T-24th in TD
21st in Y/A
24th in Y/C
12th in Passer Rating
21st in QBR
24th in scoring offense
24th in total offense

He has a high completion percentage and isn't turning the ball over. Better than some expected, but not what I'd call 'good'.


As I said, he's not being asked to do a lot and he isn't screwing that up.

Most of those stats are a function of what is being called, though. So I think you're right that he is not being asked to do a lot and he isn't screwing that up, but he's doing well with the limitations of the system that are outside forces on him.

I think the 12th in passer rating and 21st in QBR paint a picture of a guy who's playing well, not anything outstanding but well. I think he's giving like a Geno Smith caliber performance so far this year, so solid mid-tier starting QB caliber. He's outperforming legitimate starting QBs like Goff, Lawrence, Hurts, Cousins and Tua so far this year.

 

[Ryder71]

My only concern with the offense is the poor rushing efficiency.

OL has been influx, it should get shored up by this sunday or next.

 

[Peat]

I'd suggest that saying Fields has been good depends a bit on whether you're grading the whole season or just the last game. The whole season, well, yeah, he's been good by the Steelers scale in which he's asked to do little with little but not good by a big boy scale. The Chargers game... 245 yards and 20 points isn't great in a vacuum, but it does register on the big boy scale and it's the best anyone's done vs the Chargers quite comfortably.

Plus you've got all the tape showing evolution. He's looking a lot sharper and faster. I 100% thought he looked like a competent back-up doing a good fill-in job in an offence that was babysitting him vs the Falcons. He looked more than that vs the Chargers, in an offence that looked otherwise less than it had in week 1.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd suggest that saying Fields has been good depends a bit on whether you're grading the whole season or just the last game. The whole season, well, yeah, he's been good by the Steelers scale in which he's asked to do little with little but not good by a big boy scale. The Chargers game... 245 yards and 20 points isn't great in a vacuum, but it does register on the big boy scale and it's the best anyone's done vs the Chargers quite comfortably.

Plus you've got all the tape showing evolution. He's looking a lot sharper and faster. I 100% thought he looked like a competent back-up doing a good fill-in job in an offence that was babysitting him vs the Falcons. He looked more than that vs the Chargers, in an offence that looked otherwise less than it had in week 1.

It would have been 27 points without the kneel down, so that's a bit misleading.

 

[T1K]

Passing and scoring is down across the entire league

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd suggest that saying Fields has been good depends a bit on whether you're grading the whole season or just the last game. The whole season, well, yeah, he's been good by the Steelers scale in which he's asked to do little with little but not good by a big boy scale. The Chargers game... 245 yards and 20 points isn't great in a vacuum, but it does register on the big boy scale and it's the best anyone's done vs the Chargers quite comfortably.

Plus you've got all the tape showing evolution. He's looking a lot sharper and faster. I 100% thought he looked like a competent back-up doing a good fill-in job in an offence that was babysitting him vs the Falcons. He looked more than that vs the Chargers, in an offence that looked otherwise less than it had in week 1.

Yeah like I said earlier, I think basically what Fields did against the Chargers (minus the interception) is the standard I'm holding to him as a "good starting QB game". I think half of his season has been "good starting QB game" (Chargers game and first half of the Broncos game) while the other half has been "good backup game".

Although I'd probably rate his second half of the Broncos game as below "good backup game", but that's splitting hairs. I think it's about 50/50 between legit starting QB caliber and good backup QB caliber.

 

[Ryder71]

If you take Fields out in favor of Wilson, without Fields having a sub par effort, you're gonna end up in dangerous waters. These guys have egos, and if you remove Fields because you feel as though you owe Russ a shot, you could conceivably lose both next year. It's not so easy to find a capable NFL QB, particularly one that has an upward trajectory and can grow as a QB. Point being, if Fields plays well and you still go to Russ, you might be making things harder on yourselves long term. Just sayin.

Best thing is (if you like Russel Wilson) Fields has a so so game and we squeak out a win you can then make the excuse to get Russ in there.

 

[pistolpete11]

Most of those stats are a function of what is being called, though. So I think you're right that he is not being asked to do a lot and he isn't screwing that up, but he's doing well with the limitations of the system that are outside forces on him.

I think the 12th in passer rating and 21st in QBR paint a picture of a guy who's playing well, not anything outstanding but well. I think he's giving like a Geno Smith caliber performance so far this year, so solid mid-tier starting QB caliber. He's outperforming legitimate starting QBs like Goff, Lawrence, Hurts, Cousins and Tua so far this year.

As is the high completion percentage and low turnover rate.

Even if you want to call it mid-tier, that's not 'good'. It's average. It might be marginally better, but it's the same Tomlinball they've been playing since pre-elbow surgery Ben. It's good enough to win 9-ish games, but not much more. They will need to loosen the reigns to find out if they, and Fields, can be more than that.

 

[Peat]

Passing and scoring is down across the entire league

This might be about to change. Equal number of 30+ point offences in 24's week 3 and 23's and more 20-29 point offences. 20.75 points scored on average vs 22.06 favours 23, but that's pretty much down to that aberrant 70 point Miami performance.

Time will tell which is the blip that could be offences coming back together after a slow start.

 

[Empoleon8771]

As is the high completion percentage and low turnover rate.

Even if you want to call it mid-tier, that's not 'good'. It's average. It might be marginally better, but it's the same Tomlinball they've been playing since pre-elbow surgery Ben. It's good enough to win 9-ish games, but not much more. They will need to loosen the reigns to find out if they, and Fields, can be more than that.

This just seems like semantics to me. When I say he's playing well, I mean that he's performing like a mid tier average QB. I fundamentally do not feel that an Arthur Smith offense can realistically be much more than that, let alone the other issues the offense has right now.

Like I said above, my barometer for a "good" Justin Fields game is 250 passing yards and 2 TDs, whether it be a passing touchdown or a Fields rushing TD. What I'd call a good year for Fields is like 3800 passing yards, 25 passing TDs and 8 rushing TDs in 17 games with a low amount of turnovers. That's basically just Jalen Hurts with fewer turnovers.

Even if Fields somehow does end up Hurts with fewer turnovers (which I feel is a reasonable view of the best case scenario), I just don't think you're going to be looking better at being in the 10-15 range for passing offense without dramatic changes.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

As a Wisconsin fan who is as pro-Wilson as it gets... Fields has done a great job.

I can only remember like 3 or 4 bad reads in 3 weeks. And he's getting splash plays through the air consistently.

I'd honestly like to see them throw more by mixing in screens, crossing routes, and jet sweeps to Pickens and Calvin Austin. Get the playmakers the ball in space. Make the defense defend the whole field.

 

[Shrimper]

Fields isn't playing amazing but he's doing what's required of him and that's all that really matters at the moment. As he gets more time with the offence group I've no doubt he'll be able to stretch more and put on bigger games.

 

[Ryder71]

As is the high completion percentage and low turnover rate.

Even if you want to call it mid-tier, that's not 'good'. It's average. It might be marginally better, but it's the same Tomlinball they've been playing since pre-elbow surgery Ben. It's good enough to win 9-ish games, but not much more. They will need to loosen the reigns to find out if they, and Fields, can be more than that.

That's more of a system issue than a QB issue. Although I thought Fields showed a lot against a good defense sunday.

 

[T1K]

As is the high completion percentage and low turnover rate.

Even if you want to call it mid-tier, that's not 'good'. It's average. It might be marginally better, but it's the same Tomlinball they've been playing since pre-elbow surgery Ben. It's good enough to win 9-ish games, but not much more. They will need to loosen the reigns to find out if they, and Fields, can be more than that.

They really don’t. They want to control the clock and play good defense. Unlike previous years, the defense is actually good enough where that might be a good strategy. This team isn’t built for shootouts - maybe a WR trade could change that a little, but this style of play is by design.

This might be about to change. Equal number of 30+ point offences in 24's week 3 and 23's and more 20-29 point offences. 20.75 points scored on average vs 22.06 favours 23, but that's pretty much down to that aberrant 70 point Miami performance.

Time will tell which is the blip that could be offences coming back together after a slow start.

As a fantasy football player, I really hope you’re right! Lol

KC seems totally fine grinding out these wins in the ugliest way possible.

 

[T1K]

The Steelers also haven’t really been forced to pass much. The game scripts have been in their favor for the most part.

 

[Pens1566]

His #s would also be much better (from week 2) if it weren't for a few plays being called back. Couple of legit downfield throws there.