OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[Goalie_Bob]

They have a rough schedule ahead Ravens KC and Atlanta plus already lost to the chargers once

Yeah. They ain’t trading Sutton.

People need to move the f*** on.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I think it is painfully obvious that any QB coming out of college should not leave college until after their junior years. Anyone who comes out earlier is always insanely raw and unready.

That's not a "the NFL doesn't develop QBs" problem, it's "QBs are leaving college too early to get money" problem.

If a team waves 30-40 mil in your face you have to take it. Aka Trey Lance.

It’s absolutely an NFL problem. They can’t help themselves.

 

[Peat]

If a team waves 30-40 mil in your face you have to take it. Aka Trey Lance.

It’s absolutely an NFL problem. They can’t help themselves.

You don't have to. We've seen guys projected as top 10 picks go back to school for an extra year. Fashanu did. Herbert did.

I mean the NFL is absolutely part of this and has its own problems here, but the kids can make their own choices here and at times make bad ones. Arguably, any guy like Lance and Richardson who comes out when they do is telling their own story of how they don't trust themselves to still be top 10 picks after NFL teams get to see more of their film.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You don't have to. We've seen guys projected as top 10 picks go back to school for an extra year. Fashanu did. Herbert did.

I mean the NFL is absolutely part of this and has its own problems here, but the kids can make their own choices here and at times make bad ones. Arguably, any guy like Lance and Richardson who comes out when they do is telling their own story of how they don't trust themselves to still be top 10 picks after NFL teams get to see more of their film.

This is exactly it and I think the Herbert example is a great one. I also think you can throw Mahomes in that category as well, he led the NCAA in passing yards, TDs and yards/game as a sophomore but still came back for his junior year. He was even better passing in his junior year and cleaned up his interceptions, then he also sat for a year for KC.

I think players are making huge mistakes coming out of college to chase money when they're not ready for the NFL, and the NFL only cares about winning. Can you criticize the NFL for not focusing on development enough? Sure, but if you're a sophomore QB coming out of college and end up a bust, it's your own fault for leaving college early.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I'm taking the sure money. Anything can happen with another year in college, not the least of which is a devastating injury.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Random thought, how did Waitman not have a job the last year??

He's been a way under the radar surprise. Deserves as much praise as anyone on special teams.

 

[Peat]

I suppose it's easy to be wise in retrospect and say guys like Lance, Richardson, and other one year starters never had a hope. Reality is there were some very respected NFL guys willing to make bets on them. If Shanahan/Steichen/O'Connell etc.etc. were all talking about me as a top five pick, would I tell them they were tripping? Hell no.

But if guys like Shanahan and Steichen can't turn Lance and Richardson into NFLers, it's time for everyone to rethink what they're doing.

 

[JTG]

Also hands up everyone who had Calvin Austin as our second highest TD scorer at this point in the season?

I thought it was possible if he could get on the same page as Russ. It looks like they are.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851340285768515971

That's good advice. It will also force these QBs to go to different schools and maybe spread the wealth a bit.

 

[JTG]

Random thought, how did Waitman not have a job the last year??

Especially when Harvin was shanking punts left and right. Both of these punters this year have been well above the bar.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Most QBs in the NFL don't really grasp the position until age 27 or 28. It's just a very complicated position to play on top of the leadership skills needed, etc. Money drives these decisions but teams really need to stop giving up on guys if they're not an All-Pro by year 3.

 

[Pens x]

Khan is going to get caught with his pants down again like he did with Aiyuk, isnt he?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Khan is going to get caught with his pants down again like he did with Aiyuk, isnt he?

He might get bailed out if RW elevates Ca3 and Jefferson
I think we see alot of 2 man routes like he ran in Denver and he here he has Washington and Muth to work with

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What would solve the young QB issue is a better approach to drafting QBs by teams. How many guys in the last 20 years who shouldn't have been first round picks - let alone high first-rounders - have been taken in the top 15-20. Then you get bigger chunks of money tied up in the guy, but he's not ready, but cap and percentage of cap dictates that you need to "win now" and "see what we have" with a player who should be being coached up and holding a clipboard (or still in college). Clubs have to get over FOMO.

 

[wheelz87]

Pitt suddenly +8 at SMU. Word must be out that Holstein isn’t going to play.

Going to be a damn shame if this fun season ends because he can't go. SMU QB banged up too but they have a solid backup.

Random thought, how did Waitman not have a job the last year??

But for real. We've have two punters this year better than Harvin. WTF did we employ him for so long..

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

But for real. We've have two punters this year better than Harvin. WTF did we employ him for so long..

It always blew my mind that Tomlin, an avowed saint to the altar of field position to keep his defense in good positions, tolerated 3 seasons of the worst punter in football.

Still belies any rational explanation...

 

[MrBrightside]

What would solve the young QB issue is a better approach to drafting QBs by teams. How many guys in the last 20 years who shouldn't have been first round picks - let alone high first-rounders - have been taken in the top 15-20. Then you get bigger chunks of money tied up in the guy, but he's not ready, but cap and percentage of cap dictates that you need to "win now" and "see what we have" with a player who should be being coached up and holding a clipboard (or still in college). Clubs have to get over FOMO.

I really think the "issue" is the changing nature of who is playing QB. Colleges have adopted the high school model of playing their best athletes at QB and this leads to (a) different skill sets manning the position and (b) utilizing those skill sets, many of which involve running and athleticism. To maximize these skill sets and/or because that's what these players are most comfortable doing, offenses tend to devolve into read-check-run and college QB's with athleticism seldom go through progressions or get beyond those reads. This sometimes works in the NFL - Lamar, Josh Allen, and apparently Daniels - but more often than not these guys never learn the skills necessary to thrive in the NFL when they are no longer the best athlete on the field and need to rely on mechanics and progressions they never learned in college.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I really think the "issue" is the changing nature of who is playing QB. Colleges have adopted the high school model of playing their best athletes at QB and this leads to (a) different skill sets manning the position and (b) utilizing those skill sets, many of which involve running and athleticism. To maximize these skill sets and/or because that's what these players are most comfortable doing, offenses tend to devolve into read-check-run and college QB's with athleticism seldom go through progressions or get beyond those reads. This sometimes works in the NFL - Lamar, Josh Allen, and apparently Daniels - but more often than not these guys never learn the skills necessary to thrive in the NFL when they are no longer the best athlete on the field and need to rely on mechanics and progressions they never learned in college.

I agree and I believe this only makes the situation I described more impactful, i.e. I think both things are the issue.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

What would solve the young QB issue is a better approach to drafting QBs by teams. How many guys in the last 20 years who shouldn't have been first round picks - let alone high first-rounders - have been taken in the top 15-20. Then you get bigger chunks of money tied up in the guy, but he's not ready, but cap and percentage of cap dictates that you need to "win now" and "see what we have" with a player who should be being coached up and holding a clipboard (or still in college). Clubs have to get over FOMO.

Totally agree. When the teams were paying these guys ridiculous money I could see why the teams were doing it but since they put in the rookie cap then they need to stop doing it.

The issue is that ownership has to be on board with a stopgap starter and maybe sucking for a few years while the first rounder sits on the sidelines for a year. But that also depends on the path the QB has taken in college.

If you draft a guy like Pickett or Daniels that have been in college for like 6 years, then they should play right away or even half way through the season. But for a guy like Richardson, he should have sat his first year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

What would solve the young QB issue is a better approach to drafting QBs by teams. How many guys in the last 20 years who shouldn't have been first round picks - let alone high first-rounders - have been taken in the top 15-20. Then you get bigger chunks of money tied up in the guy, but he's not ready, but cap and percentage of cap dictates that you need to "win now" and "see what we have" with a player who should be being coached up and holding a clipboard (or still in college). Clubs have to get over FOMO.

Maholmes and Brady have talked about the college game being dumbed down. Most teams barely huddle most Qbs don’t use a pre progression system or a read and next system. You can’t even give most young qbs half field reads.
Billy O literally used Clemson offense for Watson in Houston. Laflur in Greenbay with willis is using a college offense he built around Marriota
Maholmes said he couldn’t read or understand defenses his rookie year and Burrow said it took him three years to understand nfl open

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Maholmes and Brady have talked about the college game being dumbed down. Most teams barely huddle most Qbs don’t use a pre progression system or a read and next system. You can’t even give most young qbs half field reads.

This is a big part of Fields' struggles, too. You watch most college teams and they line up, then hold, then look to the sideline where a coach then tells them exactly what to do based on the defensive formation.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Fields' struggles are he doesn't have the brain to play the QB at a high level.

 

[Peat]

What would solve the young QB issue is a better approach to drafting QBs by teams. How many guys in the last 20 years who shouldn't have been first round picks - let alone high first-rounders - have been taken in the top 15-20. Then you get bigger chunks of money tied up in the guy, but he's not ready, but cap and percentage of cap dictates that you need to "win now" and "see what we have" with a player who should be being coached up and holding a clipboard (or still in college). Clubs have to get over FOMO.

I believe a greater willingness to be patient would really help - although as Goalie Bob noted, that's got to start with ownership because otherwise that's something coaches and GMs get fired over - but I don't know it's going to solve the crux of the problem, which I see as -

The difficulty of playing QB, and essential nature of the QB, means the difference between QB tiers is huge.

Finding an Allen or Rothlisberger or Burrow (not even mentioning the next tier up) is life changing. I'm not sure greater patience by team hugely increases the number of such guys the league finds. And as long as there's a huge scarcity of those guys I think the league is continuing to go nuts about QB.

 

[Pengwins]

I thought it was possible if he could get on the same page as Russ. It looks like they are.


That's good advice. It will also force these QBs to go to different schools and maybe spread the wealth a bit.

Yep, drew aller should return for his senior year at Penn State. He has all the measurables to be a successful NFL quarterback.

 

[xlm34]

Yep, drew aller should return for his senior year at Penn State. He has all the measurables to be a successful NFL quarterback.

Yeah I think Allar is a really good example of a guy who should be patient. He might get some first round buzz this year, but could really help his stock with another good year. And with NIL these days, he’ll get paid good money to return.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yep, drew aller should return for his senior year at Penn State. He has all the measurables to be a successful NFL quarterback.

He has 2 years starting though. Right now he is a late 1st early 2nd round pick
Ewers Allar and Milroe all need to redshirt in the nfl like JJ was going to in Minnesota