OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[xlm34]

I want Kenny to succeed as much as anybody, but the Pitt fans (online/media figures in general, the football discussion is good here) who are also Steelers fans are absolutely insufferable when it comes to Pickett.

On a local level instead of national, it is without a doubt the most cultish devotion to a qb since Tebowmania (not saying they are remotely comparable talents in any fashion).

I'm not going to write off any offensive player on the team until changes are made, but I also have 0 trust in the organization to develop any of these guys even with Canada gone.

There was never really going to be much rational discussion around Pickett because of where he went to school. You have Pitt fans who will blindly defend him, but you’ll have a lot of Penn State fans and WVU fans that will find a way to criticize his every move.

I went to Pitt, I have season tickets unfortunately for Pitt football so I’ve seen his whole career, and I obviously want Pickett to succeed for a bunch of reasons. But he hasn’t played well so far at all even considering the Canada factor. He deserves some patience though. That was a gauntlet of teams he just went through.

 

[Son Goku]

Many delusional fans who beat up on Roth are now finding out life without a HOF QB is ugly - and their drama as easily predicted, is being taken out on KP, who hasn’t solved their offensive woes after 4.5 starts.

It’s clown shoes stuff, but every QB to come through Pgh gets hated on. It’s inescapable.

The stupidity and hate for Roth and MR is now landing on KP.

Watching these fans contort themselves into so much drama when they thought ridding the team of Roth was the big answer, has been oddly amusing for me.

its ridiculous the only QB's you see above Ben as far as career statistics are Manning and Brady, I think Brees has him in one or two as well but other than that..

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

its ridiculous the only QB's you see above Ben as far as career statistics are Manning and Brady, I think Brees has him in one or two as well but other than that..

Well reality without him is setting in now.

Not only is the team falling apart on the field, now the players are calling out the coaches, calling out each other and guys are slamming likes on pics of their QB getting sacked.

KP calling ppl out and Harris calling out his line seem noteworthy, but Heyward calling out a lack of preparation should be what disturbs fans the most.

 

[The Old Master]

to me, it's when the players don't even know where to line up when a play is called. who do you want to put the blame on that?

 

[TimmyD]

to me, it's when the players don't even know where to line up when a play is called. who do you want to put the blame on that?

That would be on Tomlin

 

[Josey Wales]

Well reality without him is setting in now.

Not only is the team falling apart on the field, now the players are calling out the coaches, calling out each other and guys are slamming likes on pics of their QB getting sacked.

KP calling ppl out and Harris calling out his line seem noteworthy, but Heyward calling out a lack of preparation should be what disturbs fans the most.

But the Ex NFLers who have on air wet dreams about playing for Tomlin, So us fans don't know what they know. Wonder if the jock sniffing Ex NFLers have finally realized what an Incompetent Fool Tomlin is

 

[TimmyD]

This is probably true and it’s my biggest reason for wanting to wait until the offseason.

Does Matt Canada deserve to have a job now? Nope. Is Mike Sullivan the guy that’s going to come in and improve things? Very likely nope. He may be a fine QB coach but we know he isn’t a good OC. Your players will probably get an adrenaline boost just because of a coaching change. But then you run the risk of Tomlin mistaking addition by subtraction with Sullivan actually being competent and keeping him around long term.

I firmly believe the plan as of now is to let Canada ride the season out, and then for him to “retire” and for the Tomlin to promote Mike Sullivan and then no other changes will be made.

 

[Pens x]

It looks so bad on Tomlin for refusing to fire Canada, the guy who recruited Tomlin’s kid at Maryland.

This madness needs to end. This better be Tomlin’s last year too. This team is so god damn sloppy, unprepared. It isn’t week 1.

 

[TimmyD]

There was never really going to be much rational discussion around Pickett because of where he went to school. You have Pitt fans who will blindly defend him, but you’ll have a lot of Penn State fans and WVU fans that will find a way to criticize his every move.

I went to Pitt, I have season tickets unfortunately for Pitt football so I’ve seen his whole career, and I obviously want Pickett to succeed for a bunch of reasons. But he hasn’t played well so far at all even considering the Canada factor. He deserves some patience though. That was a gauntlet of teams he just went through.

It kind of reminds me of when Neil Walker was a Pirate. Local kid who had a pretty good, almost cult like following who never really thought he did any wrong. Then when he eventually got traded they were completely outraged by the return (even though Walker wasn’t really good enough to warrant a better return). If Neil Walker was born is Wisconsin no one would have cared. I do believe if Pickett went to Fresno State that he would have way less fans then he actually does… and I’m not sure the Steelers draft him if that’s the case

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I want Kenny to succeed as much as anybody, but the Pitt fans (online/media figures in general, the football discussion is good here) who are also Steelers fans are absolutely insufferable when it comes to Pickett.

On a local level instead of national, it is without a doubt the most cultish devotion to a qb since Tebowmania (not saying they are remotely comparable talents in any fashion).

I'm not going to write off any offensive player on the team until changes are made, but I also have 0 trust in the organization to develop any of these guys even with Canada gone.

As someone who went to PSU..

I’m not enamored, he could be a lot better. He has not shown he’s going to be the guy yet. I thought this was his least encouraging game by far. Felt like a ton of balls were nowhere near his targets. His physical tools don’t look great either.

But he could also be so much worse. He has zero run game, has played from behind every game, and is in a dysfunctional situation to put it nicely. I do think for how many attempts and dropbacks he’s had, the mistakes haven’t been horrific for a rookie QB in this situation. I would say he’s been slightly better than Trubisky, which is a low bar, but that’s also a guy who has had some (minimal) success in the league. I would like more flashes of potential, but straight performance-wise I don’t think any rookie QB since Luck would be appreciably better, and most would be worse imo.

Idk. I think he’s showing a pretty high floor. I’m starting to wonder about his ceiling though.

 

[TimmyD]

It looks so bad on Tomlin for refusing to fire Canada, the guy who recruited Tomlin’s kid at Maryland.

This madness needs to end. This better be Tomlin’s last year too. This team is so god damn sloppy, unprepared. It isn’t week 1.

He doesn’t care what it looks like or how it makes him look. Mike Tomlin hears about how great he is from the national media on a daily basis and has become so arrogant that he legitimately believes nothing makes him look bad

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Steelers have given up 43 explosive plays which is most in the league.

I think a huge problem with this team that gets glossed over because of the offense/Canada is the defense being pretty bad.

It's ok, we have a HC who was the defensive coordinator for a highly successful team before getting hired.
I'm sure by his 20th year he'll be able to FINALLY get the defense situated just the way he wants it.

Tomlin's got dis!

 

[pistolpete11]

It kind of reminds me of when Neil Walker was a Pirate. Local kid who had a pretty good, almost cult like following who never really thought he did any wrong. Then when he eventually got traded they were completely outraged by the return (even though Walker wasn’t really good enough to warrant a better return). If Neil Walker was born is Wisconsin no one would have cared. I do believe if Pickett went to Fresno State that he would have way less fans then he actually does… and I’m not sure the Steelers draft him if that’s the case

I still remember people talking about moving Walker to 1B because...ya know...keeping that .750 OPS bat in the lineup was critical.

Although, the people that complained about that trade ended up being right. J-Hay replaced him at 2B and was terrible and Niese was awful while Walker had a bounce back year in NY.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I still remember people talking about moving Walker to 1B because...ya know...keeping that .750 OPS bat in the lineup was critical.

Although, the people that complained about that trade ended up being right. J-Hay replaced him at 2B and was terrible and Niese was awful while Walker had a bounce back year in NY.

The other component was that we failed to re-sign JA Happ who was our best pitcher from his acquisition. Instead, we weakened our team to get Niese who was a better contract but worse player. Who ended up bombing.

Walker/Harrison/Happ >>>>>> Harrison/Niese

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I really don't follow CFB so don't paint me with any biased brush

But pick ANY rookie QB in the history of the NFL and put him in Pickett's shoes now. Could you be able to honestly evaluate a player who is in this kind of offense? How can you properly say he is or isn't the long term answer?

This team isn't the right environment for rookies. Harris looks like he's a has been/never was. Claypool hasn't taken that next step after a great rookie season. Muth has been beset by injuries.

There's a lot of stink in this organization.

 

[The Old Master]

That would be on Tomlin

or the player for not bothering to knowing what to do

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pickett isn't innocent with the struggles of the offense, but I have a seriously hard time putting that much of it on him when looking at the grand picture. You can't even reasonably evaluate Pickett in this offense because of how messed up it is.

I don't know what people who are upset with Pickett's performance were expecting out of him. He's a rookie QB on a dysfunctional team who has performed fine outside of turnovers. What were you expecting, him to come in and be an above average starter immediately?

Like I posted yesterday, I have no clue how people can simultaneously say that his upside isn't high while also being mad that he's not at that upside in his rookie year. If his upside is just being a Tannehill caliber average QB (which I agree with, I think the hope is that he ends up what Tannehill has been in TN), why are you mad that he's not playing at that level in his rookie year?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

or the player for not bothering to knowing what to do

Then if a player doesn't know his assignments, who's responsibility is it to retract playing time?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I really don't follow CFB so don't paint me with any biased brush

But pick ANY rookie QB in the history of the NFL and put him in Pickett's shoes now. Could you be able to honestly evaluate a player who is in this kind of offense? How can you properly say he is or isn't the long term answer?

This team isn't the right environment for rookies. Harris looks like he's a has been/never was. Claypool hasn't taken that next step after a great rookie season. Muth has been beset by injuries.

There's a lot of stink in this organization.

Canada needs to go but Pickett was not good yesterday- on the mental side of things. Missed throws, bailed on pockets, etc. That is on him.

What is scary to me is he seems like he’s getting less comfortable and less confident as he plays more. That’s on the coaches.

I agree about the stink. I really hope Weidl and Khan can turn this around. They seem sharp. That’s all I got though, have lost all faith in Tomlin.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'm confused by the lack of adjustments here. The entire team is vocal about the issues...the coaches have lost their grip on it.

KP I can't blame him much. He's a rookie leading the worst running team in the league with the worst O coordinator. Who would be successful? His biggest issue is trying to play superman knowing we are horrible. That's gotten him poor stat lines. I really can't even evaluate him.

If Tomlins refused to change coaches then he must go. It's a bye week. Things should be happening.

I firmly believe the plan as of now is to let Canada ride the season out, and then for him to “retire” and for the Tomlin to promote Mike Sullivan and then no other changes will be made.

That would be so Steelers and ridiculous.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Pickett isn't innocent with the struggles of the offense, but I have a seriously hard time putting that much of it on him when looking at the grand picture. You can't even reasonably evaluate Pickett in this offense because of how messed up it is.

I don't know what people who are upset with Pickett's performance were expecting out of him. He's a rookie QB on a dysfunctional team who has performed fine outside of turnovers. What were you expecting, him to come in and be an above average starter immediately?

Like I posted yesterday, I have no clue how people can simultaneously say that his upside isn't high while also being mad that he's not at that upside in his rookie year. If his upside is just being a Tannehill caliber average QB (which I agree with, I think the hope is that he ends up what Tannehill has been in TN), why are you mad that he's not playing at that level in his rookie year?

When pretty much the only time that you are throwing long, and then only far less than half the time, is after it becomes third and forever and teams are sitting back waiting on the pass the interception rate is not going to look good.

Pickett may be a bust. Early to say, but sure, I am not wedded to him or the pick and fine if he is.

But the true crime of allowing Canada to continue this joke of an offense is that it makes evaluating whether he actually has what it takes to develop, or does not, much much harder.

Which should be the first thing that they should be focused on in this lost season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm confused by the lack of adjustments here. The entire team is vocal about the issues...the coaches have lost their grip on it.

KP I can't blame him much. He's a rookie leading the worst running team in the league with the worst O coordinator. Who would be successful? His biggest issue is trying to play superman knowing we are horrible. That's gotten him poor stat lines. I really can't even evaluate him.

If Tomlins refused to change coaches then he must go. It's a bye week. Things should be happening.


That would be so Steelers and ridiculous.

It’s fine for ppl to say KP is playing shitty, because he is.
It’s the mental midget stuff I see/hear that go into hysterics that he’s already a bust after 4.5 starts.

It’s no different than the people who wanted to put him into the HOF after 5-6 pre-season quarters.

We aren’t going to have a clue who KP is until the end of next season at the absolute earliest.

If he keeps playing badly and throws like 25-30 picks, and spooks Tomlin, then maybe he goes all Arizona.

Then the process will start all over again and the fans will quickly turn on the new guy when he struggles… and he will.

This is the post Roth era and it’s comical so many Yinzers have already thrown themselves off the bridge after HALF A DOZEN GAMES.

This process could last decades so uh…

When pretty much the only time that you are throwing long, and then only far less than half the time, is after it becomes third and forever and teams are sitting back waiting on the pass the interception rate is not going to look good.

Pickett may be a bust. Early to say, but sure, I am not wedded to him or the pick and fine if he is.

But the true crime of allowing Canada to continue this joke of an offense is that it makes evaluating whether he actually has what it takes to develop, or does not, much much harder.

Which should be the first thing that they should be focused on in this lost season.

I don’t think those of us saying KP needs time to see who he is, need to apologize how we aren’t married to him or aren’t big Pitt fans, etc.

This shit is just common sense, it’s the drama rama fans who need to deal with reality.

It’s like we have to be their personal shrinks and talk them off the edge and shit.

KP may bust, they need to put their adult pants on and deal with it without so much drama.

It’s just football, time for them to get a grip.

 

[Flying Dego]

It’s fine for ppl to say KP is playing shitty, because he is.
It’s the mental midget stuff I see/hear that go into hysterics that he’s already a bust after 4.5 starts.

It’s no different than the people who wanted to put him into the HOF after 5-6 pre-season quarters.

We aren’t going to have a clue who KP is until the end of next season at the absolute earliest.

If he keeps playing badly and throws like 25-30 picks, and spooks Tomlin, then maybe he goes all Arizona.

Then the process will start all over again and the fans will quickly turn on the new guy when he struggles… and he will.

This is the post Roth era and it’s comical so many Yinzers have already thrown themselves off the bridge after HALF A DOZEN GAMES.

This process could last decades so uh…



I don’t think those of us saying KP needs time to see who he is, need to apologize how we aren’t married to him or aren’t big Pitt fans, etc.

This shit is just common sense, it’s the drama rama fans who need to deal with reality.

It’s like we have to be their personal shrinks and talk them off the edge and shit.

KP may bust, they need to put their adult pants on and deal with it without so much drama.

It’s just football, time for them to get a grip.

I'm on the fence for KP. But in fairness to him this is not a team a rookie can be successful on currently. Ben walked into a great situation.

That's More of the reason I want at minimum a new OC this bye week and see what can be fixed.

I'm willing to see if he's worth building with but its futile without good structure around him. Not like brining in say Stroud next year would change what it currently is

 

[Joejosh999]

For a team w a lot of younger players, there appears to be little to no ongoing learning and improvement week to week. Better technique, better game IQ and so on. That’s on the coaches.
I think the last time I heard any Steeler talk about how much they were learning, it was when Lebeau was still here.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What this discussion is again/still missing, and understandably so because we don't see it, is that the lion's share of coaching, and, IMO, the most important parts, take place between games. Even if Canada was calling plays like Norv Turner or Mike Shanahan in their primes -- which he's not of course, and far from it -- his schemes are poor, he's not installing them (meaning coaching his players) well enough and his position coaches aren't teaching things that support the overall scheme and vision.