The "Panic about Matt Duchene" thread

[ABasin]

Barker and EJ didn't have the same success that Duchene had in their 1st two seasons either.

Draft position has everything to with evaluating Duchene as a player. Going #3 overall translates into high potential/expectations...and he did nothing in his 1st two years to suggest he couldn't meet them. It also dictates the amount of time/$$$/resources that the organization is going to put into him compared to a "199th overall pick".

There are well-documented reasons why his current year hasn't been a good one and it has little to do with his talent/character/potential. He's already proven those variables.

Back to the drawing board?

I believe you both make reasonable points here, though I also disagree with the assertion that high draft position equates to keeping a player for only that reason.

I'm for keeping Duchene and seeing if the Avs can do something to exploit the obvious talent he has. If there's one thing that cannot be taught to a hockey player, it's hand skills, and Duchene clearly has that (not to mention his skating). That said, he sure seems damn clueless in terms of how to use other players (wearing his jersey) on the ice.

Also, with both O'R and Stastny on the roster next season, it's not like the Avs *have* to have Duchene uber-successful at center by next October. They have some time, and Stastny isn't likely tradeable until 2013-14, during the last year of his whopping contract. So, the Avs should be reasonably strong at center next season, regardless of whether Duchene figures things out at that position.

All of that said, I think it's important that the Avs acknowledge that something is seriously wrong with Duchene's play right now, and they need to equally acknowledge that the possibility exists that it cannot be "fixed" to the level one would expect of a #3 overall pick. The league has had a lot of highly skilled, modestly productive perimeter players. If Duchene turns out to be just that, then the best thing to do is to simply accept it, and not get worked up over the fact that they bombed on a #3 overall pick.

-AB

 

[Goulet17]

I believe you both make reasonable points here, though I also disagree with the assertion that high draft position equates to keeping a player for only that reason.

I'm for keeping Duchene and seeing if the Avs can do something to exploit the obvious talent he has. If there's one thing that cannot be taught to a hockey player, it's hand skills, and Duchene clearly has that (not to mention his skating). That said, he sure seems damn clueless in terms of how to use other players (wearing his jersey) on the ice.

Also, with both O'R and Stastny on the roster next season, it's not like the Avs *have* to have Duchene uber-successful at center by next October. They have some time, and Stastny isn't likely tradeable until 2013-14, during the last year of his whopping contract. So, the Avs should be reasonably strong at center next season, regardless of whether Duchene figures things out at that position.

All of that said, I think it's important that the Avs acknowledge that something is seriously wrong with Duchene's play right now, and they need to equally acknowledge that the possibility exists that it cannot be "fixed" to the level one would expect of a #3 overall pick. The league has had a lot of highly skilled, modestly productive perimeter players. If Duchene turns out to be just that, then the best thing to do is to simply accept it, and not get worked up over the fact that they bombed on a #3 overall pick.

-AB

You could make the same comments about EJ, a former #1 overall pick.

If Duchene is a bust, you should get worked up about it because the Avs' future is far less bright.

I personally believe that Duchene will be fine and this board hysteria will pass.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I personally believe that Duchene will be fine and this board hysteria will pass.

We have a whole summer of it to go through.

Can't wait to see Duchy back to his old self AND have a beasting O'Reilly/Stastny.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I'm for keeping Duchene and seeing if the Avs can do something to exploit the obvious talent he has. If there's one thing that cannot be taught to a hockey player, it's hand skills, and Duchene clearly has that (not to mention his skating). That said, he sure seems damn clueless in terms of how to use other players (wearing his jersey) on the ice.

I strongly disagree with this.

Skills with the puck, skating, a shot, muscle, etc. can all be worked on via coaching or own personal work. I believe the only thing that cannot be taught is exactly what he is missing; hockey sense. You either have it or you don't.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I strongly disagree with this.

Skills with the puck, skating, a shot, muscle, etc. can all be worked on via coaching or own personal work. I believe the only thing that cannot be taught is exactly what he is missing; hockey sense. You either have it or you don't.

I agree with this, and it's the only reason I'm willing to trade Duchene. I strongly believe that players with poor or average physical tools can improve those, but if you can't think the game at a high level you won't ever have sustained impact.

At the same time, I think that Duchene has shown glimpses of actually having high end hockey sense (such as for large chunks of last season), however he too often throws the blinders on.

The best way I can put it is that hockey players need the tools (physical tools) and the toolbox (hockey sense). Duchene has both, but he often leaves the toolbox at home and looks like a bumbling fool as he tries to keep ahold of the tools.

 

[Ivan13]

I agree with this, and it's the only reason I'm willing to trade Duchene. I strongly believe that players with poor or average physical tools can improve those, but if you can't think the game at a high level you won't ever have sustained impact.

At the same time, I think that Duchene has shown glimpses of actually having high end hockey sense (such as for large chunks of last season), however he too often throws the blinders on.

The best way I can put it is that hockey players need the tools (physical tools) and the toolbox (hockey sense). Duchene has both, but he often leaves the toolbox at home and looks like a bumbling fool as he tries to keep ahold of the tools.

Duchene isn't a hockey Pejorative Slur, he needs to understand when it's time to play at full speed and when it's time to slow down a little bit, he also tends to rely to much on his physical attributes and I think he'll learn to use his physical attributes to his advantage as time passes by.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Duchene isn't a hockey Pejorative Slur, he needs to understand when it's time to play at full speed and when it's time to slow down a little bit, he also tends to rely to much on his physical attributes and I think he'll learn to use his physical attributes to his advantage as time passes by.

That's basically what I said. Kid has the hockey sense to play at a high level (we witnessed it last season). However, he tends to throw on the Dunce cap and attempts to go it alone. When he uses his linemates he is very effective, unfortunately, this season he has decided he is a one man team.

I honestly believe he needs a full off-season and training camp to re-evaluate his style of play. Next season we will see if he is capable of thinking the game, or if he is just physical ability.

 

[Ivan13]

That's basically what I said. Kid has the hockey sense to play at a high level (we witnessed it last season). However, he tends to throw on the Dunce cap and attempts to go it alone. When he uses his linemates he is very effective, unfortunately, this season he has decided he is a one man team.

I honestly believe he needs a full off-season and training camp to re-evaluate his style of play. Next season we will see if he is capable of thinking the game, or if he is just physical ability.

I know, I just worded it differently.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I honestly believe he needs a full off-season and training camp to re-evaluate his style of play. Next season we will see if he is capable of thinking the game, or if he is just physical ability.

Sure, but the questions comes to his contract. Does he get a 1 year deal to bounce back and show his true form? Do we lock him into a long term deal at a decent price? Do we pay him based on potential? A lot of unknowns there.

 

[avsfan09]

I think it all comes down to confidence. Duchene has had a godawful year and injuries aren't helping his frustration. He can't get any offense going or timing. He will be fine he just needs to comeback next year and get back to basics and work from there.

 

[Taak19]

He has to stop being too fancy. He isn't Pavel ****ing Datsyuk.

 

[chewey]

I don't know why people keep on blaming injuries. The kid was still pretty terrible the start of the season with turnovers, spins, and eventually trying to move him to wing (an experiment I thought would succeed but alas, it won't).

Injuries may have hurt him but his playing style didn't change.

 

[ABasin]

I strongly disagree with this.

Skills with the puck, skating, a shot, muscle, etc. can all be worked on via coaching or own personal work. I believe the only thing that cannot be taught is exactly what he is missing; hockey sense. You either have it or you don't.

I believe that most physical skills/aspects of the game can be changed, but not magic hands. You either have them or you don't. Else we'd have scrubs turning into 30 goal guys all of the time, which we don't. Hand skills are the exception, I believe.

I agree with your hockey sense comment though. And that's what has really worried me about Duchene this year (and Elliott for that matter). I'm not in Duchene-freakout mode like some others in here are, but I acknowledge obvious shortcomings when I see them, and this has been pretty evident with Duchene.

-AB

 

[R S]

I know he's battled injuries, but that doesn't excuse the problems I see with his game right now. He holds onto the puck too long, often turning it over. Make up your mind and make a play.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Why you heff to be mad? Hes a good guy.

 

[chewey]

Why you heff to be mad? Hes a good guy.

So was Wolski.

 

[member 116861]

So was Wolski.

Wolski was a criminal.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So was Wolski.

At least, they pay their dinner bills.

Wolski was a criminal.

Well he did rob the yotes for 4 million.

 

[chewey]

At least, they pay their dinner bills.

comes on the heels of two online rumours the Jets have investigated and determined to be false: that Kane suffered his concussion when punched at a nightclub, and that he doesn’t pay his restaurant tabs.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/31/the-kane-mutiny

 

[MADGREEK*]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/31/the-kane-mutiny

lol how tight are your lips on Kane man

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Sure, but the questions comes to his contract. Does he get a 1 year deal to bounce back and show his true form? Do we lock him into a long term deal at a decent price? Do we pay him based on potential? A lot of unknowns there.

Actually I think this is tough question and It shows no confidence to Duchene's abilities, If they offer him one year contract. Tough spot! Mueller should be easier, just offer him basically the same contract and he should take it. Duchene is up for a raise.

 

[chewey]

lol how tight are your lips on Kane man

Not as tight as yours on Duchene, Roy, Holtby, Byrzlaov, and I suspect OBrien.

 

[MADGREEK*]

Not as tight as yours on Duchene, Roy, Holtby, Byrzlaov, and I suspect OBrien.

lol I hate Duchene

the rest I will not confirm nor deny

 

[Alex Jones]

That's basically what I said. Kid has the hockey sense to play at a high level (we witnessed it last season). However, he tends to throw on the Dunce cap and attempts to go it alone. When he uses his linemates he is very effective, unfortunately, this season he has decided he is a one man team.

I honestly believe he needs a full off-season and training camp to re-evaluate his style of play. Next season we will see if he is capable of thinking the game, or if he is just physical ability.

I really don't think it's a positioning or hockey IQ thing, I still think it's an issue of simply being a perimeter guy right now, and not playing a north-south game.

If you want a guy who is a hockey Pejorative Slur, take Kevin Porter. Porter does a lot of things you would seem to like in a bottom six player. He's a good skater, he's willing to hit, he plays a north/south game, and works on both ends of the ice.

But Porter sucks, and it's because he struggles to read the play and position himself accordingly.

Duchene isnt' out of position a lot, it's just that he wants to make fancy plays along the boards and won't take the puck to the front of the net. I still have hope for him, but he needs to get it together.

 

[BB1133]

I think it all comes down to confidence. Duchene has had a godawful year and injuries aren't helping his frustration. He can't get any offense going or timing. He will be fine he just needs to comeback next year and get back to basics and work from there.

I'm on the same page here. The kid is just having a tough year on almost every front. He struggled out of the gate and he was moved to wing. That's a lot to ask of a 21 year old who has been a natural center his entire life. The fact that he had some success there should be a sign of just how much raw talent he really has.

Coming off a knee ligament strain isn't exactly easy either. When he did come back, he was openly talking about how difficult it is to get any rhythm going when you never get the chance to play with the same linemates for more than a couple games at a time. The only guys he's any small bit of continuity with is Stats and Hejduk--and we all know how good Hejduk has been this season.

Now he's clearly playing hurt because he wanted to help the team by playing through some pain in the ankle and people are still crapping on him? Just a couple pages ago some hockey genius said he plays with no heart.

W-T-F You got to be kidding me.

And last but not least, let's not forget O'Reilly's/Sacco's roles in all this. Who knew that O'Reilly would break out into a potential Selke player this fast? That created a bit of a conundrum for Sacco because the center position suddenly became tricky.

It was the perfect storm for a down year and Duchene's stuck in the twilight zone.

Were people jumping off bridges when Stamkos faded down the stretch last year? The guy was "Mr Irrelevant" in the playoffs and he wasn't even injured.

Young guys need time to establish themselves--especially players who are drafted #3 overall and start their careers as teenagers.