The "Panic about Matt Duchene" thread

[FoppaForsberg*]

You obviously haven't been to the Trade and Rumors forum, Oilers forum, Flyers forum, etc. Great first post tho. Would subscribe.

Sarcasm isn't appreciated, this thread is a joke. The fact that he's hit 67 points as a 20 year old and people are ready to trade him is hilarious. Most players are still in Junior or the AHL without making contributions till they're 23 or 24. Look at Stamkos's first season. His coach said he's not ready for the NHL, yet once he left he turned into a 50 goal player. If the Avs didn't have an idiot of a head coach i'm sure that Duchene would be further ahead in developmental.

 

[Alex Jones]

Duchene is still a guy with outstanding tools and a lot of energy, I suspect someone would be willing to give up a lot for him.

 

[Alex Jones]

Another thing, remember when the whole Duchene Vs. Hodgson thing was going on, and we kept hearing about how they were both great 2-way players???

Yea, not so much....

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Duchene is still a guy with outstanding tools and a lot of energy, I suspect someone would be willing to give up a lot for him.

Probably, but your looking at a package most likely. It won't be for a young stud defender, that is as good as Duchene. JJ(3rd overall) got you Gleason and JVR(2nd overall) was rumored to be traded for L.Schenn. Yes, DUchene has had better track record the all those players but if that's the market, I'll take my chances with Duchty thank you.

Duchene is 21 and before this year he was at least adequate defensively. Remember the great defensive player Yzerman? Where was he Duchene's age?

 

[AvsWraith]

No wonder this forum is the laughing stock of hockey forums. The amount of people calling for his head over one season is insane.

The reason, IMO, we are going hard after Duchene is because of the playoff race. If we weren't in it, most everyone would probably be more inclined to just write his season off. That being said, we ARE in it, and Duchene is playing the worst we have ever seen him play. He's actually playing like he just wants to get the season over with so he can go fishing. Meanwhile, Staz has upped his game since the race began to take shape. I'm usually a very vocal critic of Staz, but I have to give him his props here. He's stepped it up from where his normal intensity has been.

 

[chewey]

Do you think the Yotes or Panther are willing to give up OEL or Kulikov for a broken Duchene? Sure, maybe they look at the 3rd overall and his play the first 2 years and take the risk but I doubt either team makes that trade especially, Florida.

I wouldn't be surprised. Both teams have depth in the D (Gudbranson/Eberly, Rundblad/Gormely/Murphy) vs not that much in the center position. I'd also part with Stastny and RoR for one of them too. I just doubt it due to Stastny's salary and RoR current all-around role on the team.

If it happens tho I'd be thrilled.

I'm sure you would love that.

Easily. I may not be his biggest fan but I love this team. Been through both disastrous lottery years, and awful decisions. Had moments when I wanted to back out but couldn't. This team has become too big a part of my life.

No doubt that a healthy offensively dangerous Duchene helps this team.

I think it will be trade and it won't be Duchene much to your dismay.

Meh, I doubt it too. But hey I may hit lignting twice. His is the face of the franchise as and shadow mentioned the media loves him. He's the poster boy of this team easily and it'll take a LOT from another team and even Duchene himself to get traded.

He was at least average in his first 2 years, it's just this year where he has regressed in all parts of his game.

I'd say his defense regressed last year too. He wasn't back checking as much as he was in his rookie season. Might also be due to the fact that he was spending more time in the offensive side of things but still to me it was noticiable.

The best thing in my mind to do with duchene is to get him personal help. I don't know if Sacco is the man for that (or even doing it) but maybe a psychologist? I know that Stars sent one to the Spitfires when Campbell wasn't playing well.

I don't think its fitness issues with Duchene. I remember after his rookie season he "bulked" up. I also think he needs conditioning training not strength. His body build is perfect for his play. He just needs to tone up and loose the baby fat he may have and improve cardio. If he gains strength I fear he may loose his speed.


But hey getting bigger didn't slow Kane down so who knows

 

[jsalz16]

Two things,

1. He's the 3rd overall pick; Tavares and Hedman were picked ahead of him.
2. I don't give a **** if he is the 1st overall pick of the millennium. If he's sitting, floating, and turning the puck over he isn't helping winning the most important game they have. .

1. Sorry, brain cramp. Anyway 2nd overall or 3rd overall doesn't change my pov at all

2. So why bench Duchene. Mueller and Duke have been just as stagnent offensively and just as inept in their own end. Edit: I guess Sacco agrees because Mueller is the scratch tonight.

You also don't juggle the lines if the other two are clicking (which they have) during the stretch run

Again, Downie has cooled of and could be a sparkplug on the third line. Someone to forecheck and cause turnovers for the other two guys. IMO Lando and RoR can play with anyone and Duke can keep up with them.
Or we could do as you suggest and just stand pat with current lines and watch the glimmer of hope for the playoffs fade away.

IMO, you have to let Duchene play out of this and do anything you can to help him with that.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I wouldn't be surprised. Both teams have depth in the D (Gudbranson/Eberly, Rundblad/Gormely/Murphy) vs not that much in the center position. I'd also part with Stastny and RoR for one of them too. I just doubt it due to Stastny's salary and RoR current all-around role on the team.

If it happens tho I'd be thrilled.

You don't give up a Kulikov without knowing what you have in both Gud or Ellerby. He is the crown jewel in the Panthers lineup. Erik nor Ellerby can match his 2 way game, he won't be the one out of the trio to be traded. It would be like the Ranger trading McDonagh because they have Del Zotto.

Same thing with OEL, neither Runblad/Gormely or Murphy have done anything to warrant trading OEL, who looks to be a stud.

I would be thrilled if it was Stastny.

Meh, I doubt it too. But hey I may hit lignting twice.

I'm still waiting for the avs to get Harding. Maybe, I hit lightening twice remember Varly's trade.

I'd say his defense regressed last year too. He wasn't back checking as much as he was in his rookie season. Might also be due to the fact that he was spending more time in the offensive side of things but still to me it was noticiable.

The best thing in my mind to do with duchene is to get him personal help. I don't know if Sacco is the man for that (or even doing it) but maybe a psychologist? I know that Stars sent one to the Spitfires when Campbell wasn't playing well.

It wasn't bad a minus 8 on a ****** defensive team isn't bad at all.

As for the psychologist, I think that's a pretty excessive step to take. We don't have any inside information as to what's causing Duchene to play bad but it's just a slump that he will snap out of eventually.

But hey getting bigger didn't slow Kane down so who knows

Well that's because he's God.

 

[Foppa2118]

Sums up my POV.



Again, sums up my POV. I'd love to get Kulikov or OEL for Duchene. Just look at the difference this team is with Duchene out of the line up - still competing for a playoff spot, and EJ out of the line up - this team's defense blows hard... so hard.

Clearly the offseason needs to be focused on bringing a top pairing dman, what ever way the Avs feel comfortable, either by throwing the bank or trading.



The problem, he doesn't shoot as much, and when he does get the puck he thinks he's a center again and spins, etc.



RoR's defensive level is almost elite. Stastny is also very high up there. Duchene just needs to be average. He doesn't need to compete for the Selke just be at least average.



This.

My point though was that a 60 pt center who's average defensively is kind of average in itself. When they already have a couple centers who also are 60pt guys at their worst, and are very good defensively.

I'm not in favor of trading Duchene for at least another year, but if he's just going to be a 60 pt center who's average defensively, it would be better to move him for something that will help the team more, and keep Staz, O'Reilly, and McLement as their top three.

 

[chewey]

2. So why bench Duchene. Mueller and Duke have been just as stagnent offensively and just as inept in their own end. Edit: I guess Sacco agrees because Mueller is the scratch tonight.

Mueller is being scratched tonight. Besides, Mueller has 7 points in the past 10 games. He isn't being, "as stagnent offensively". Just as inept? Well they are wingers. Centers, generally if they aren't scoring, are expected at least to be capable in their own zone. Duchene has show that but isn't doing it.

As for Duke well, he gets the veteran pass and being the captain. Not a strong message to scratch that down the run. I agree he should be but alas, too much politics on that.

Or we could do as you suggest and just stand pat with current lines and watch the glimmer of hope for the playoffs fade away.

Yes, because a team 5 - 1 - 1 in their past 7 games needs to juggle their lineup due to a player not performing well would watch the glimmer of home of the playoffs fade away.

WTF are you smoking?

IMO, you have to let Duchene play out of this and do anything you can to help him with that.

Yes. Because he has been a large contribution to our wins right now.

 

[jsalz16]

I give up, you win. Keep the lines the same. Like you say, they're 5-1-1 over the last 7. Surely, that will continue over the next 3 against Van-SJ-Van. They shouldn't try to spark the one player who could be the difference. They shouldn't adapt. They shouldn't worry that the only game that Varly played well instead of unreal is the one they lost in reg. Don't adapt, stay the course!

 

[jwolbach]

Duchene is 21 and before this year he was at least adequate defensively. Remember the great defensive player Yzerman? Where was he Duchene's age?

Putting up 90 points in 80 games (29G and 61A). Becoming the youngest captain in Red Wings history.

True, he wasn't the two-way player that he later became. He still contributed to his team and made his line mates better. Maybe you should wait until Duchene is 1/10th the player Yzerman was before you make this argument.

My qualm with Duchene doesn't really show up on the stat sheet. Not only does he NOT make his line better, he makes it worse. After three years of complaining about how Duchene always plays with line mates that he doesn't have 'chemistry' with, you'd think people would look at the common element.

 

[Foppa2118]

Probably, but your looking at a package most likely. It won't be for a young stud defender, that is as good as Duchene. JJ(3rd overall) got you Gleason and JVR(2nd overall) was rumored to be traded for L.Schenn. Yes, DUchene has had better track record the all those players but if that's the market, I'll take my chances with Duchty thank you.

Duchene is 21 and before this year he was at least adequate defensively. Remember the great defensive player Yzerman? Where was he Duchene's age?

Not that it's impossible for Duchene to become a much better defensive player, but that was a completely different era. The importance wasn't put on being solid defensively for talented young players back then. The Yzerman's, Modano's, and Sakic's showed the importance of this when they changed their game mid way through their careers.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Putting up 90 points in 80 games (29G and 61A). Becoming the youngest captain in Red Wings history.

True, he wasn't the two-way player that he later became. He still contributed to his team and made his line mates better. Maybe you should wait until Duchene is 1/10th the player Yzerman was before you make this argument.

My qualm with Duchene doesn't really show up on the stat sheet. Not only does he NOT make his line better, he makes it worse. After three years of complaining about how Duchene always plays with line mates that he doesn't have 'chemistry' with, you'd think people would look at the common element.

Good job on completely missing the point. Duchene has had linemates that he has chemistry with. He has also made them better. Mueller, Olver,WInnik,Stewart and Flash. It was just never sustained mostly because of injuries.

Not that it's impossible for Duchene to become a much better defensive player, but that was a completely different era. The importance wasn't put on being solid defensively for talented young players back then. The Yzerman's, Modano's, and Sakic's showed the importance of this when they changed their game mid way through their careers.

That's a good point but I was just using Yzerman as an example of how young stud forward who wasn't exactly a beast defensively but later learned(or started to care) about his defensive duties.

 

[Zih]

Why, is Downie playing when he's clearly hurt? Downie has hurt the avs just as much as Duchene in the last week or so with his stupid penalties.

Honestly, I wouldn't be upset if Downie sat for a few games too. It's a better solution IMO than making Mueller a healthy scratch.

 

[Goulet17]

HNIC had a really nice piece on Matt Duchene and Dawson Hamilton, who died of leukemia a couple of years ago.

Duchene is really a quality individual.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

The reason, IMO, we are going hard after Duchene is because of the playoff race. If we weren't in it, most everyone would probably be more inclined to just write his season off. That being said, we ARE in it, and Duchene is playing the worst we have ever seen him play. He's actually playing like he just wants to get the season over with so he can go fishing. Meanwhile, Staz has upped his game since the race began to take shape. I'm usually a very vocal critic of Staz, but I have to give him his props here. He's stepped it up from where his normal intensity has been.

This makes no sense at all, because we're in the playoff race you should trade Duchene because he's under performing? Good rookie season, better sophomore season, and one bad, injury plagued season and people are ready to trade him. Give your heads a shake people.
When I say laughing stocks of hockey forums I mean HFboards in general.

 

[avs1dacup]

Honestly, I wouldn't be upset if Downie sat for a few games too. It's a better solution IMO than making Mueller a healthy scratch.

Downie is at least doing SOMETHING. He's not only getting offensive chances, but he is still bringing grit to the team and drawing penalties. Duchene and Mueller right now, are pylons and completely useless out there.

 

[shadow1]

Steve Downie may be making more mistakes lately, but he's playing an overall game that wins hockey games. Matt Duchene isn't.

I see a few people implying that Duchene is playing hurt and that it's crazy to suggest trading him. Most people aren't suggesting trading him, just diminishing his role even more. There are six games left in the regular season, and they're all must wins. Joe Sacco can't be giving a lot of ice time to the Duchene line with the omnipresent danger of them being burned defensively every time they're on the ice.

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

Duchene is still a guy with outstanding tools and a lot of energy, I suspect someone would be willing to give up a lot for him.

Habs would love him.

 

[Heebs21*]

Our entire 3rd line is a disaster.

Hedjuk wont be back. I doubt Mueller will be back. And Duchene has no spot on this team. He is not a 3rd line center.

If Jones is re-signed, then I think we shop Duchene at the draft. I love the guy but he just does not fit on this team.

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
??- Olver - ??
Mcleod - McClement - Kobasew

 

[NHL33*]

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
??- Olver - ??
Mcleod - McClement - Kobasew

Olver is gutsy as hell and quite smart, but he does get killed a lot at center. I would rather he stick to the wing, though his skill set is definitely suitable otherwise for the center position.

 

[CB Joe]

Our entire 3rd line is a disaster.

Hedjuk wont be back. I doubt Mueller will be back. And Duchene has no spot on this team. He is not a 3rd line center.

If Jones is re-signed, then I think we shop Duchene at the draft. I love the guy but he just does not fit on this team.

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
??- Olver - ??
Mcleod - McClement - Kobasew

Downie isn't scoring. IMO he should be moved off the top line to the third line and the Avs should try a scorer with Lando and O'Reilly.

 

[NothingLikeAnEJ]

Our entire 3rd line is a disaster.

Hedjuk wont be back. I doubt Mueller will be back. And Duchene has no spot on this team. He is not a 3rd line center.

If Jones is re-signed, then I think we shop Duchene at the draft. I love the guy but he just does not fit on this team.

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
??- Olver - ??
Mcleod - McClement - Kobasew

Mueller is an RFA and he's finally healthy. No way in hell he doesn't get re-signed.

 

[Heebs21*]

Downie isn't scoring. IMO he should be moved off the top line to the third line and the Avs should try a scorer with Lando and O'Reilly.

A big reason our first line is so dominant is because Downie does the little things to get Lando and O'Reilly open.

You dont always need to score to be effective.