The "Panic about Matt Duchene" thread

[AVSfan2daMAX]

First of all, Duchene will be fine. On March 23rd 2013, I'm sure if we pull out this thread, we'll be laughing at the notion. I'd consider this season a write off and see what he can do next season. If he falters again, then we have issues, but I doubt that's the case.

I definitely wouldn't scratch him at this point of the season. Why on earth would anyone want Chuck Kobasew in the lineup in favour of Duchene. Earlier this season everyone was on Kobasew's case anyways. Kobasew doesn't bring enough to the table to justify scratching your most talented player - even if he's playing poorly. Sacco needs to dress him and play him according to his effort and production (which he has been doing)

 

[Foppa2118]

With Downie, Mueller and Duchene struggling as of late (because of injuries and whatever) maybe it's time for Sacco to do what he does usually, mix up lines...something like...

McGinn-Staz-Jones (leave them alone)
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Mueller
Olver-Duchene-Downie
McLeod-McClement-Hejduk

I hate to put the Duke back on the 4th line, but he's just not effective on a scoring line anymore

Why not put the three struggling guys together then? Can't do much worse. Try Hejduk back with O'Reilly and Landeskog and hope for a spark.

McGinn - Staz - Jones
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Hejduk
Mueller - Duchene - Downie
Olver - McLement - McLeod

Then swap Olver and put Hejduk at RW on the 4th if he's still sucking.

 

[the_fan]

Who gave permission to change the title of this thread?

This was my "Duchene a bust?" thread!!!!

 

[Pokecheque]

Who gave permission to change the title of this thread?

This was my "Duchene a bust?" thread!!!!

Tell ya what, you have everyone's blessing to start the "Landeskog a Bust?" thread if/when Lando fails to meet lofty fan expectations next season.

 

[Jayevs]

Yup 67 point sophmore season=bust

 

[shadow1]

First of all, Duchene will be fine. On March 23rd 2013, I'm sure if we pull out this thread, we'll be laughing at the notion. I'd consider this season a write off and see what he can do next season. If he falters again, then we have issues, but I doubt that's the case.

I definitely wouldn't scratch him at this point of the season. Why on earth would anyone want Chuck Kobasew in the lineup in favour of Duchene. Earlier this season everyone was on Kobasew's case anyways. Kobasew doesn't bring enough to the table to justify scratching your most talented player - even if he's playing poorly. Sacco needs to dress him and play him according to his effort and production (which he has been doing)

Because Duchene is terrible? Does he do anything other than get pinned deep in the defensive zone? One point (assist) in his last eight games, one goal in his last 16 games, four shots in his last four games (by comparison, Ryan O'Reilly and Paul Stastny combined for 12 last game against Phoenix).

He does nothing. It's a novelty if his pathetic line scores because of how terrible they are everywhere else on the ice. Seven minutes of ice time last game and somehow he finishes -2. And giving Duchene 10 minutes a night in meaningful games isn't going to do anything for him when he's playing like absolute crud.

This is a pretty big rip job by me, but I hate soft players, especially when they're not scoring. It was fine and dandy when Duchene had 67 points last season when the Avalanche were playing a ton of 5-4 no defense games, but he's terrible now that goals are harder to come by.

The media is such a kiss ass to him too. They cater to fans who're obsessed with him because of where he was drafted rather than what he's actually done. You can hear Mike Haynes voice crack every time he scores because he's so excited, like Duchene's is some messiah who defines Avalanche hockey. Even Peter McNabb doesn't have the nads to call Ryan O'Reilly Colorado's top center, instead referring to him as the Avalanche's "top center in terms of points and faceoffs." Sure has a damn nice ring to it, especially when he said it 10 frickin' times after Mark Giordano broke his nose.

Bottom line is Duchene sucks right now, and there's no reason to keep him in the line-up. Chuck Kobasew kills penalties and wears the other team down by forechecking, which is a hell of alot more than can be said about Matty D. Far more important to Duchene's short term development is making the playoffs this year.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I'd want Kobasew in over Duchene right now. Too many people giving him the benefit of the doubt because he was the 3rd overall pick, who gives a ****, if he's hurting the team that shouldn't matter. Bench him and here's to next year for him.

 

[Avalicious18]

Yup 67 point sophmore season=bust

I didn't know this was his sophomore year.

 

[Hasbro]

I didn't know this was his sophomore year.

The held him back a year.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I'm still completely up for trading Duchene. However, it has to be a trade for a top-pairing young defender, someone like Kulikov, Ekman-Larsson, and I'm completely fine with dealing Duchene.

While I think this year is an anomally, I still think Duchene plays like a hockey idiot. If he proves that he can use his head and brain then keep him. However, if he continues to rely solely on his physical gifts...trade him...

 

[Foppa2118]

To me all the main issues with Duchene are why he's best suited for the wing. A center needs to have more awareness on ice, and good vision in regards to where his linemates are.

Moving Duchene to wing full time keeps him from over handling the puck. He either gets it in stride carrying it up the ice, or he gets a good feed from his center that gives him time and space to make direct moves to the net. He's less likely to spend all his time trying to make something happen himself.

At his worst, in a healthy season, I think Duchene is a 60 point guy. That's a good contribution as a winger, but as a purely scoring center that doesn't do much else, it leaves a bit to be desired. Unless he can somehow bring his defensive game up to O'Reilly's level, who also is likely a 60 point guy, but does more to help the team than just score.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don't think sitting a whole game will do any good. To get Duchene out of his funk he needs to play games, he's already missed a lot of the season. I don't mind Sacco benching if he feels Duchty not competing enough or being a liability on the ice. I didn't think the case was either yesterday but...

I agree, sitting him a whole game does nothing at this point because the team is in a do or die situation. However, I do believe he is a negative player at this point. He's a scorer that isn't producing and is not really that great at the defensive aspects of the game. Right now he's not contributing to a team that needs every single person on the ice to contribute.

Personally, as terrible as it sounds, I'm hoping he's hurt more than we know. The only two other conclusions I can come to is he's either a bust or will take a lot more time in the oven. The last prospect is very troubling given that he's up for a new contract...I can understand taking games lost due to injuries as a contributing factor when negotiating deals, but when a player is playing hurt it really muddies the water. Personally, if he's not hurt I would only give a 15% bump if he want's a contract that takes him to UFA. If he want's a smaller one I'd open wide. At this point, the AVs should keep their options open because an offer sheet for a player like Duchene could easily replace what is essentially a third line center on a bubble team with massive amounts of cap space.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

C'mon guys, he's obviously playing injured. You're just calling his head this time, not Stastny's.. It was Stastny everyone wanted to trade couple weeks ago now it's Duchene. Give him a ****ing break. Same with Mueller. Jesus, have a little patience, this is getting ridiculous.

Anyone want to bet on Duchene putting up 60+ points next year? He's going to bounce back and people will eat crow once again.

 

[CB Joe]

Once he matures, he should be fine. Might take another season or two.

 

[Landeskog The Viking]

this guy will bounce back i just hope he trains harfd this summer gary robrts would be a great place for him to get some strength then get someone like sakic to help him with his shot at worst i see him bein a 70 pt player plus i think we need a skilled winger with him hishon would have been nice but god knows if he will ever play again

 

[Pokecheque]

C'mon guys, he's obviously playing injured. You're just calling his head this time, not Stastny's.. It was Stastny everyone wanted to trade couple weeks ago now it's Duchene. Give him a ****ing break. Same with Mueller. Jesus, have a little patience, this is getting ridiculous.

Anyone want to bet on Duchene putting up 60+ points next year? He's going to bounce back and people will eat crow once again.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

C'mon guys, he's obviously playing injured. You're just calling his head this time, not Stastny's.. It was Stastny everyone wanted to trade couple weeks ago now it's Duchene. Give him a ****ing break. Same with Mueller. Jesus, have a little patience, this is getting ridiculous.

Anyone want to bet on Duchene putting up 60+ points next year? He's going to bounce back and people will eat crow once again.

Doesn't change the fact he should be riding the pine right now.

 

[Alex Jones]

C'mon guys, he's obviously playing injured. You're just calling his head this time, not Stastny's.. It was Stastny everyone wanted to trade couple weeks ago now it's Duchene. Give him a ****ing break. Same with Mueller. Jesus, have a little patience, this is getting ridiculous.

Anyone want to bet on Duchene putting up 60+ points next year? He's going to bounce back and people will eat crow once again.

I would be down for Stastny getting a hike out of town as well. Anyway, the difference between two is this.

1. Stastny's problems were related to his effort and probably a good dose of discouragement.

2. Duchenes problems are related to the fact that he is, and always has played a perimeter game and he doesn't have all of the fast break points to make up for his problems.

An attitude is fixable. I dont' know about a playstyle.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I would be down for Stastny getting a hike out of town as well. Anyway, the difference between two is this.

1. Stastny's problems were related to his effort and probably a good dose of discouragement.

2. Duchenes problems are related to the fact that he is, and always has played a perimeter game and he doesn't have all of the fast break points to make up for his problems.

An attitude is fixable. I dont' know about a playstyle.

and I would argue that Stastny was not performing because he had Duchene, Winnik or Hejduk on his line for a large portion of the year. McGinn comes in and they put him back with Jones and oh my imagine that he's playing great all of a sudden.

 

[Zih]

C'mon guys, he's obviously playing injured.

If he's still hurt, then he shouldn't be playing.

Because frankly, he's about our worst forward out there. In terms of how much they'd help the team make the playoffs this year, I'd rather have Kobasew playing instead of him. Kobasew at least has shown that he can be a pretty damn good grinder. Duchene right now is a mess all over the ice.

I think Sacco should scratch him for a few games. He should take pains to say that it's not a healthy scratch, and that they probably cleared him to play before he was ready to. So they're giving him a few days to heal up his leg. Hell, that's probably all true to begin with.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

and I would argue that Stastny was not performing because he had Duchene, Winnik or Hejduk on his line for a large portion of the year. McGinn comes in and they put him back with Jones and oh my imagine that he's playing great all of a sudden.

Duchene had 12pts in 14 games in November, then sacco put him on wing and oh imagine that he played like crap got hurt came back played like crap and got hurt. Why isn't Duchene playing like because of Hejduk? Stastny made Kevin AHL Porter a 15 goal scorer, He had Jones for the majority of 2011 and still played like crap. McGinn has helped but Stastny's effort has been much better in the new year.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

No wonder this forum is the laughing stock of hockey forums. The amount of people calling for his head over one season is insane.

 

[chewey]

Because Duchene is terrible? Does he do anything other than get pinned deep in the defensive zone? One point (assist) in his last eight games, one goal in his last 16 games, four shots in his last four games (by comparison, Ryan O'Reilly and Paul Stastny combined for 12 last game against Phoenix).

He does nothing. It's a novelty if his pathetic line scores because of how terrible they are everywhere else on the ice. Seven minutes of ice time last game and somehow he finishes -2. And giving Duchene 10 minutes a night in meaningful games isn't going to do anything for him when he's playing like absolute crud.

This is a pretty big rip job by me, but I hate soft players, especially when they're not scoring. It was fine and dandy when Duchene had 67 points last season when the Avalanche were playing a ton of 5-4 no defense games, but he's terrible now that goals are harder to come by.

The media is such a kiss ass to him too. They cater to fans who're obsessed with him because of where he was drafted rather than what he's actually done. You can hear Mike Haynes voice crack every time he scores because he's so excited, like Duchene's is some messiah who defines Avalanche hockey. Even Peter McNabb doesn't have the nads to call Ryan O'Reilly Colorado's top center, instead referring to him as the Avalanche's "top center in terms of points and faceoffs." Sure has a damn nice ring to it, especially when he said it 10 frickin' times after Mark Giordano broke his nose.

Bottom line is Duchene sucks right now, and there's no reason to keep him in the line-up. Chuck Kobasew kills penalties and wears the other team down by forechecking, which is a hell of alot more than can be said about Matty D. Far more important to Duchene's short term development is making the playoffs this year.

Sums up my POV.

I'm still completely up for trading Duchene. However, it has to be a trade for a top-pairing young defender, someone like Kulikov, Ekman-Larsson, and I'm completely fine with dealing Duchene.

While I think this year is an anomally, I still think Duchene plays like a hockey idiot. If he proves that he can use his head and brain then keep him. However, if he continues to rely solely on his physical gifts...trade him...

Again, sums up my POV. I'd love to get Kulikov or OEL for Duchene. Just look at the difference this team is with Duchene out of the line up - still competing for a playoff spot, and EJ out of the line up - this team's defense blows hard... so hard.

Clearly the offseason needs to be focused on bringing a top pairing dman, what ever way the Avs feel comfortable, either by throwing the bank or trading.

Moving Duchene to wing full time keeps him from over handling the puck. He either gets it in stride carrying it up the ice, or he gets a good feed from his center that gives him time and space to make direct moves to the net. He's less likely to spend all his time trying to make something happen himself.

The problem, he doesn't shoot as much, and when he does get the puck he thinks he's a center again and spins, etc.

At his worst, in a healthy season, I think Duchene is a 60 point guy. That's a good contribution as a winger, but as a purely scoring center that doesn't do much else, it leaves a bit to be desired. Unless he can somehow bring his defensive game up to O'Reilly's level, who also is likely a 60 point guy, but does more to help the team than just score.

RoR's defensive level is almost elite. Stastny is also very high up there. Duchene just needs to be average. He doesn't need to compete for the Selke just be at least average.

If he's still hurt, then he shouldn't be playing.

Because frankly, he's about our worst forward out there. In terms of how much they'd help the team make the playoffs this year, I'd rather have Kobasew playing instead of him. Kobasew at least has shown that he can be a pretty damn good grinder. Duchene right now is a mess all over the ice.

I think Sacco should scratch him for a few games. He should take pains to say that it's not a healthy scratch, and that they probably cleared him to play before he was ready to. So they're giving him a few days to heal up his leg. Hell, that's probably all true to begin with.

This.

 

[chewey]

No wonder this forum is the laughing stock of hockey forums. The amount of people calling for his head over one season is insane.

You obviously haven't been to the Trade and Rumors forum, Oilers forum, Flyers forum, etc. Great first post tho. Would subscribe.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

If he's still hurt, then he shouldn't be playing.

Because frankly, he's about our worst forward out there. In terms of how much they'd help the team make the playoffs this year, I'd rather have Kobasew playing instead of him. Kobasew at least has shown that he can be a pretty damn good grinder. Duchene right now is a mess all over the ice.

Why, is Downie playing when he's clearly hurt? Downie has hurt the avs just as much as Duchene in the last week or so with his stupid penalties.

Again, sums up my POV. I'd love to get Kulikov or OEL for Duchene. Just look at the difference this team is with Duchene out of the line up - still competing for a playoff spot, and EJ out of the line up - this team's defense blows hard... so hard.

Clearly the offseason needs to be focused on bringing a top pairing dman, what ever way the Avs feel comfortable, either by throwing the bank or trading.

RoR's defensive level is almost elite. Stastny is also very high up there. Duchene just needs to be average. He doesn't need to compete for the Selke just be at least average.

Do you think the Yotes or Panther are willing to give up OEL or Kulikov for a broken Duchene? Sure, maybe they look at the 3rd overall and his play the first 2 years and take the risk but I doubt either team makes that trade especially, Florida. The best thing for the avs and Duchene is he finds his game and start playing like the world class player he can be. I'm sure you would love that.

I think it will be trade and it won't be Duchene much to your dismay.

He was at least average in his first 2 years, it's just this year where he has regressed in all parts of his game.