iAvs
JUST WIN
I hope so. We need Dutchy scoring goals and helping us get into the playoffs.
The "Panic about Matt Duchene" thread
- Thread starter the_fan
- Start date
I hope so. We need Dutchy scoring goals and helping us get into the playoffs.
iAvs
JUST WIN
LOL... that made me laugh
Seriously, just because a guy talks about his favorite music or posts pictures of fishing on twitter doesn't mean he wasted away the whole offseason.
The guy has been injured off and on this season. He's also over complicating his game.
Hopefully sitting on the bench in the 3rd snaps him out of it, because he was floating on that 3rd goal against us last night & he cannot do that.
I don't think work ethic is or has ever been Duchene's problem. I don't recall anyone on these boards calling O'Reilly lazy when he was struggling last season. O'Reilly's problems appear to have been confidence, something I guess his old man helped fix. Maybe he can do the same with Duchene, I don't know.
It should also be pointed out that the team made a big shift from being more of a Duchene-type of team to an O'Reilly-type of team. Duchene was the guy with the ideal linemate for his game last season (Flash), now it's O'Reilly who's got Landeskog alongside him.
We can only hope he works hard this offseason, stays healthy, has some linemates he clicks with, and plays with more confidence and smarts in all three zones.
It should also be pointed out that the team made a big shift from being more of a Duchene-type of team to an O'Reilly-type of team. Duchene was the guy with the ideal linemate for his game last season (Flash), now it's O'Reilly who's got Landeskog alongside him.
We can only hope he works hard this offseason, stays healthy, has some linemates he clicks with, and plays with more confidence and smarts in all three zones.
I do agree that confidence is a big issue.. but it certainly looks like he has work ethic issues to me.. I'm sure if he gains confidence the other will come and vice versa but the issues are certainly there.
Why though? What do you see that indicates laziness? If he's turning the puck over too much and losing puck battles that could very well be an injury/strength issue as much as anything else. He's a player who relies on his speed to create space, and it's clear that due to injuries he doesn't have that extra gear.
Not that I was a particularly good player in my youth, but I remember missing most of the season due to a broken collarbone. When I came back I was completely out of sorts. It takes a while for the rhythm of the game to come back to you, and IMO Dutchy rushed himself back from this latest injury when he shouldn't have.
I think he's still playing with some pain. This isn't a work ethic issue with him. It's a combination of still being injured, having crap linemates, and trying to do too much himself.
The linemates argument simply doesn't hold up for me. He played with far worse players his rookie year regularly, including Tucker, Yip, and Svatos, and looked far better.
While I maintain he's a hockey Pejorative Slur, with the skills and build of Crosby, but the hockey sense of Kevin Porter (actually that may be unfair to Porter), that's not what's making him play like **** right now. He's always been stupid with the puck, but was able to contribute. Plenty of idiots with far worse skills are contributors on this team. For example, McLeod and O'Brien.
I suggest it comes down to character right now. How he can look O'Reilly and Landeskog in the eyes after a game, I have no idea. Hell, how those two can put up with Duchene's embarrassing performances is a mystery. He's three times as talented as the both of them, but right now he's less than half as good, if that. He really has no excuse for being this bad.
While I maintain he's a hockey Pejorative Slur, with the skills and build of Crosby, but the hockey sense of Kevin Porter (actually that may be unfair to Porter), that's not what's making him play like **** right now. He's always been stupid with the puck, but was able to contribute. Plenty of idiots with far worse skills are contributors on this team. For example, McLeod and O'Brien.
I suggest it comes down to character right now. How he can look O'Reilly and Landeskog in the eyes after a game, I have no idea. Hell, how those two can put up with Duchene's embarrassing performances is a mystery. He's three times as talented as the both of them, but right now he's less than half as good, if that. He really has no excuse for being this bad.
Well, RoR may have struggled but his role wasn't an offensive one. He was contributing as much as he ever did at that point. However he was never horrible defensively. I think I may hazily recall a game or so when he had a bad defensive play last year but nothing to cost the team a game, more so a odd man rush etc.
Duchene on the other hand has expectations to score. He isn't out on the PK, but 5 on 5, PP to do that. I don't know if its lazy but he's definitely floated around quite a bit this season even early on before his injuries.
Well, they work well together. Besides at some point the other players need to start getting linemates too. Duchene may get 1st pick on players for his line but Stastny and RoR end up getting the shorter end of the stick on that. Finally did management go out and give them support players (RoR got Downie instead of Winnik, Gali, Yip, Porter and Stastny got McGinn instead of those I already mentioned).
As for Flash, that has been talked about already. Duchene is also still getting quality linemates, Mueller [7 points in last 10 games] and Hejduk (tho shells of their former selves).
If he started to use his linemates more it'd give us a better idea who he works with. Sadly for now its just the ballerina tryouts we're going to see.
I'm thinking some veteren leadership could help him and the rest of the team a ton. He needs someone that he respects to kick him in the ass. Someone to grab him by the collar and say "Hey, enough of this ****! Start playing like you can!" He has zero accountability right now. I don't see anyone on the Avs that could fill that role. Maybe SOB? I think its something the Avs should address in the offseason.
Alex Jones
BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
Alex Jones
BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
Alex Jones
BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
Posts like this make me hate these boards sometimes.
But I guess I may have been guilty of such rants in the past, so...
I'm not saying he is completely free of blame for his season thus far, but to imply that the attitude of a kid who just barely turned 21 is bad when there has been no evidence whatsoever to imply as such is patently absurd.
I blame fan frustration, which is understandable to a point, but I just wish people would find better ways to vent than ridiculous and completely erroneous posts like these.
Posts like this make me hate these boards sometimes.
But I guess I may have been guilty of such rants in the past, so...
I'm not saying he is completely free of blame for his season thus far, but to imply that the attitude of a kid who just barely turned 21 is bad when there has been no evidence whatsoever to imply as such is patently absurd.
I blame fan frustration, which is understandable to a point, but I just wish people would find better ways to vent than ridiculous and completely erroneous posts like these.
I don't know how you could disagree that this team needs some vet leadership. That's not a knock on Duchene at all. It's kind of like a big brother thing on the ice. You don't want to piss off the big brother. Its been a very successful approach for many teams throughout the years.
Posts like this make me hate these boards sometimes.
But I guess I may have been guilty of such rants in the past, so...
I'm not saying he is completely free of blame for his season thus far, but to imply that the attitude of a kid who just barely turned 21 is bad when there has been no evidence whatsoever to imply as such is patently absurd.
I blame fan frustration, which is understandable to a point, but I just wish people would find better ways to vent than ridiculous and completely erroneous posts like these.
Yeah, I totally agree about the dialogue on the boards. Way to lead by example here. Your unsupported assertions and unwillingness to actually address the people you disagree with have raised the level of this discussion immeasurably.
Thank you...sensible critiques all around.
I'd argue the "short end" point you have about O'Reilly and Stastny. I can remember quite clearly fans on these boards *****ing and moaning when Stewart was taken off Duchene's line and put on Stastny's, I don't necessarily believe Duchene has always gotten "first pick" of his linemates.
I agree he has looked lost out there at times, hence the floating. It's true he does need to get better there, but I'm still not going to call his work ethic into question. I don't recall ever seeing him coasting back on the backcheck (quite the opposite actually) and rarely see him pass up a chance to take someone on for a puck battle in the corner. Problem is he's losing the battles, not avoiding them.
My biggest criticisms of his game are what most everyone else's is, that right now he's doing nothing to protect the puck and not strong enough to get it back from the opposition. Also trying to do way too much on his own. I won't just sit here and make excuses for the kid, but all players have their off-years. I guess the good news about Duchene having his now is that he is due for a new contract this offseason. Unless negotiations go completely south I expect he will get a short term deal for decent, but not exorbitant, coin.
+1 would read again.
I don't disagree with your point at all, just how you presented it. I don't think Duchene necessarily needs to have someone screaming in his face, but no doubt the league's youngest team needs some older players who have been through the wringer a few times.
But zero accountability? I think not. Sacco appears to have held him plenty accountable. I agree veteran leadership will invariably help in that endeavor, but it's not like the coach is putting him out on the ice and letting him do as he pleases.
Yes, because your eloquent assertions about Duchene being a "hockey Pejorative Slur" and how he shouldn't even look Lando and ROR in the eye is so much better.
Okay, so this is me addressing you and your childish arguments directly. Happy now?
You're implying his struggles stem from a lack of character. There are plenty of factors that have contributed to his struggles, and some of it most definitely has to do with the man himself. But to say he produced just fine with Svatos and Yip his rookie season and so should be expected to produce fresh from his 2nd serious injury (that he clearly hasn't recovered from) with a past-due-date Hejduk and a Mueller who has barely played this season is a lazy glossing over of the facts. Yipper hit the ground running his rookie season and since then his game has completely imploded. Svatos was still a useful player at the time as well. Just because they'd be crappy linemates doesn't mean they were crappy linemates back then.
And you saying he has less hockey sense than Kevin freaking Porter makes me question your own sense of the game. Make some sensible arguments and maybe we can enter into a sensible debate. Or you can hit the ignore button. Your choice.
After watching just about every Avs game this year here are my thoughts on Duchene..
The skill is clearly there and everyone can see that, but Duchene is such a random player. Every game he plays is completely different he doesn't have a pattern to his game what so ever. All great players have patterns to their game because they do what they excel at. An example of this is look at Landeskog, he uses his strength to the outside and takes a shot off the wing or forechecks his butt off in the corner. Every game I watch Lando he tries moves that work directly with his skill set. Another example is O' reilly, he uses his great stick to create turnovers to set up the offense. Another would be Stamkos, he positions himself to use his bomb of a shot and gets to areas where he can score.
Duchene is completely random he has no pattern to his game. He is always trying random moves because he has no confidence in any of the moves he has to make plays on the ice. He needs to simplify his game that directly connects to his skill set. His greatest asset is his speed and he rarely uses it to gain an advantage over his competition. Duchene has the potential to be a great hockey player with the skillset he has but right now his skill set is all he has and no great player can just rely on skills in this league. All great players know what their going to do with the puck before it is even on their stick.
I am really keeping my fingers crossed Duchene finds his NHL game. The kid has so much skill its unbelievable. Duchene really needs to get much much stronger on the puck, I haven't seen much improvement at all with his strength.He looses just about every battle he has. If he is going to be a center in his league that can't happen. He needs to bulk up this offseason and drastically simplify his game.
One last thing is his line. Now I know there is not much we can do to shuffle lines right now since the Stas and O'reilly line look really good together. But lets look at Duchene's line. First you have Duchene at center, he isn't that strong playing in the defensive zone. He is really weak and the puck and looses all battles down low. You can have a center that cannot take his man out down low and clear the net. I am still iffy on whether Duchene should play center or wing it depends on how much stronger he gets. Next look at his linemates, Mueller and Duke. Now when the puck gets deep into the opposing zone who in the Hell is going to win a battle down low for that line?? I don't see it and thats why that line hasn't done squat, no one gets in there and wins battles to control the puck. For the future Mueller can stay with Duchene since they have had some chemistry in the past . But that line needs a workhorse who goes down low and wins battles. Look at why Factors line and Stas line have been successful. They go in and win the battles and create from there.
I really hope Duchene can find his game and put on some muscle this offseason. It kills me to see all that talent and potential. But that is my Duchene rant for now. GO AVS GO
The skill is clearly there and everyone can see that, but Duchene is such a random player. Every game he plays is completely different he doesn't have a pattern to his game what so ever. All great players have patterns to their game because they do what they excel at. An example of this is look at Landeskog, he uses his strength to the outside and takes a shot off the wing or forechecks his butt off in the corner. Every game I watch Lando he tries moves that work directly with his skill set. Another example is O' reilly, he uses his great stick to create turnovers to set up the offense. Another would be Stamkos, he positions himself to use his bomb of a shot and gets to areas where he can score.
Duchene is completely random he has no pattern to his game. He is always trying random moves because he has no confidence in any of the moves he has to make plays on the ice. He needs to simplify his game that directly connects to his skill set. His greatest asset is his speed and he rarely uses it to gain an advantage over his competition. Duchene has the potential to be a great hockey player with the skillset he has but right now his skill set is all he has and no great player can just rely on skills in this league. All great players know what their going to do with the puck before it is even on their stick.
I am really keeping my fingers crossed Duchene finds his NHL game. The kid has so much skill its unbelievable. Duchene really needs to get much much stronger on the puck, I haven't seen much improvement at all with his strength.He looses just about every battle he has. If he is going to be a center in his league that can't happen. He needs to bulk up this offseason and drastically simplify his game.
One last thing is his line. Now I know there is not much we can do to shuffle lines right now since the Stas and O'reilly line look really good together. But lets look at Duchene's line. First you have Duchene at center, he isn't that strong playing in the defensive zone. He is really weak and the puck and looses all battles down low. You can have a center that cannot take his man out down low and clear the net. I am still iffy on whether Duchene should play center or wing it depends on how much stronger he gets. Next look at his linemates, Mueller and Duke. Now when the puck gets deep into the opposing zone who in the Hell is going to win a battle down low for that line?? I don't see it and thats why that line hasn't done squat, no one gets in there and wins battles to control the puck. For the future Mueller can stay with Duchene since they have had some chemistry in the past . But that line needs a workhorse who goes down low and wins battles. Look at why Factors line and Stas line have been successful. They go in and win the battles and create from there.
I really hope Duchene can find his game and put on some muscle this offseason. It kills me to see all that talent and potential. But that is my Duchene rant for now. GO AVS GO
Out of left field but...
What about moving Downie onto a line with Duchene. Downie has cooled off quite a bit now. I think you could put just about anyone out with Lando and RoR right now. Maybe this could spark Duchene? Never really watched many Tampa games but I read Downie had pretty good chemistry with Stamkos. Downie Duchene Mueller???
Put Duke on with Radar and Lando, maybe spark him too.
What about moving Downie onto a line with Duchene. Downie has cooled off quite a bit now. I think you could put just about anyone out with Lando and RoR right now. Maybe this could spark Duchene? Never really watched many Tampa games but I read Downie had pretty good chemistry with Stamkos. Downie Duchene Mueller???
Put Duke on with Radar and Lando, maybe spark him too.
R S
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2006
- 25,468
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I think the answer is RoR with Landeskog and Duchene.
If they get some chemistry it would be an elite line going forward.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
To me its simple play more north south, use your speed and if need be change ur curve since hes always missing the net or bobbling the puck. Maybe that toe curve just aint doin it no more. Im not worried about Matt he'll get it together and in a few years were gonna be laughing that this thread even existed.
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