The Out of Town Thread CVIII - Free Agency Edition

[Sterling Archer]

Come on, I lived through those moves same as you. Don't try to sell me an alternate history. Plenty of praise was heaped on Burke and Holmgren because they were Aggressive and Being Active. I'm not even talking about from the media, I'm talking about from fans of this very team.

Seriously. You thought signing Komi and Beauchemin to top line centre contracts when they were second tier defensemen was a good idea? How about Lupal who's made of glass. The Kessel trade was panned from the get go and got worst when the Leafs finished second last that year. Phaneuf was a good trade but the contract they gave him afterwards was atrocious and even TSN knew it.

As for Holmgren, trading his two star players to make room for Bryz is not revisionist history. It was a ridiculous contract at the time. The Carter and Richardson traded themselves were somewhat a wash at the time. Trading Richards for Simmonds plus was a great trade but the trade for Voracek for Carter I didn't think was as good. Looks like now they were both great trades for Philly with one disasterous goalie signing.

Both Burke and Holmgren moves were received with mixed reviews at most at the time with the general attitude being "well, we'll see" by the media. As for the fans, let's be honest, most are super emotional and irrational anyways. I wouldn't put much stock in what a fan base is feeling anout their teams and the moves they make at they tend to be overly optimist and not look at the warts. Under their veneer of optimism is a deep pit of despair and loathing (talking about Leafs fans in general)

 

[dmanfish90]

I don't see what the big deal is with Jim Nill.

Sure the guy brought in some good players up front (Seguin, Spezza) and the team has drafted well (Benn, Nichushkin). But there isn't much more to talk about.

One thing to note, and I know a lot of you don't believe in this, but they do play in the West and arguably the toughest division in all of hockey.

Nevertheless, i like how we went from a 7th seed in 2011 (I don't really count 2012 as a season that accurately showed this team's standing in the league) to 2nd place in the league in regular season standings. That's quite an achievement for Bergevin, regardless of what he inherited. The guy has made some changes, although not substantial enough for us to win a championship, but he's on the right path.

Nill thinks that working from the net out is the right way to go. That's arguably the hardest to start, as you really need a big two-way centre ala Kopitar, Toews or even a Staal (more Eric in his prime than Jordan in his prime). Seguin is adequate enough, you either need skill and size or skill and adequate size with some speed, which is what Seguin provides.

You don't need an MVP goalie to win the cup, as proof with Chicago this past year, Pittsburgh, Detroit, but they do need to play like one in the playoffs (LAK [Quick], ANA [Giguere], BOS [Thomas]). You also usually need a #1D that can play at both ends of the ice (Keith, Doughty, Chara, Letang [somewhat], Lidstrom, Pronger & Niedermayer,). Don't see any of that in Dallas though. See one in MTL though...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I don't see what the big deal is with Jim Nill.

Sure the guy brought in some good players up front (Seguin, Spezza) and the team has drafted well (Benn, Nichushkin). But there isn't much more to talk about.

One thing to note, and I know a lot of you don't believe in this, but they do play in the West and arguably the toughest division in all of hockey.

Nevertheless, i like how we went from a 7th seed in 2011 (I don't really count 2012 as a season that accurately showed this team's standing in the league) to 2nd place in the league in regular season standings. That's quite an achievement for Bergevin, regardless of what he inherited. The guy has made some changes, although not substantial enough for us to win a championship, but he's on the right path.

Nill thinks that working from the net out is the right way to go. That's arguably the hardest to start, as you really need a big two-way centre ala Kopitar, Toews or even a Staal (more Eric in his prime than Jordan in his prime). Seguin is adequate enough, you either need skill and size or skill and adequate size with some speed, which is what Seguin provides.

You don't need an MVP goalie to win the cup, as proof with Chicago this past year, Pittsburgh, Detroit, but they do need to play like one in the playoffs (LAK [Quick], ANA [Giguere], BOS [Thomas]). You also usually need a #1D that can play at both ends of the ice (Keith, Doughty, Chara, Letang [somewhat], Lidstrom, Pronger & Niedermayer,). Don't see any of that in Dallas though. See one in MTL though...

Price's God mode play had nothing to do with that? Just look at the numbers..the team did not improve.

And while you think Nill is no big deal, your GM told everyone that getting one player let alone 2 the caliber of Seguin and Spezza was next to impossible. Nill did it in a year.

Bergie's "work" is inflated by the work of a superstar goalie that carried a team and covered a lot of ineptitude.

Lateral moves for 4th line players are getting way more recognition than they should .

 

[Miller Time]

IMO their D is among the worst in the league, easily.

Their goalies are the wildcard. Lehtonen can be a top ten goalie or one of the worst in the league. Niemi's highs are not as high but he's more consistently average. But both are far from safe bets.

Nill is like the new Holmgren, making some big splash every offseason while failing to address any real needs and people eat it up anyway because "at least he's doing something!". Maybe Nill, like Holmgren, will fluke his way into a finals appearance one year.

all very subjective, of course, but imo Dallas' current d-group is no even in the conversation as one of the league-worst.

Arizona, Boston, Edmonton, Carolina, New Jersey, Philly and LA (mind you they are likely not done) are all weaker than Dallas' group heading into this season.

then there are another 5-10 teams were it would be debatable.

The goalie factor will play a huge role, as will the progression of their younger guys like nemeth, yokipaaka, oleksiak...

but a top-4 of Klinberg, Goligoski, Demers, Oduya, while not sexy, is more steady/balanced than the top-4's of many teams.

Comparing NIll to Holmgren is flat out silly... "flashy" moves get made by successful and failed GM's alike. All of the recent cup winners had GM's who made "flashy" moves.

What Nill seems to be doing is being aggressive in adding talent to his roster, without sacrificing much talent/depth in return. His roster is significantly better than when he took over AND well positioned for the future.

We are right to be envious, because our leadership group started out at the same time, with a much better roster/prospect situation, and hasn't made nearly the positive roster progression that he's been able to do, despite giving up more assets & spending more $$.

 

[le_sean]

Price's God mode play had nothing to do with that? Just look at the numbers..the team did not improve.

And while you think Nill is no big deal, your GM told everyone that getting one player let alone 2 the caliber of Seguin and Spezza was next to impossible. Nill did it in a year.

Bergie's "work" is inflated by the work of a superstar goalie that carried a team and covered a lot of ineptitude.

Lateral moves for 4th line players are getting way more recognition than they should .

Yeah more work needs to be done, but imagine having Bournival, Blunden and Dumont instead of Weise, Mitchell and Flynn. There would be a noticeable difference.

 

[Miller Time]

Yeah more work needs to be done, but imagine having Bournival, Blunden and Dumont instead of Weise, Mitchell and Flynn. There would be a noticeable difference.

why would any team settle for bournival/blunden/Dumont on their 4th line?

there are boat loads of 4th line caliber players interchangeable with Weise/Mitchell/Flynn sitting in UFA every year.

not a matter of ignoring that our depth forwards look solid, but any fan of hockey could easily assemble a decent 4th line with 3M$ to spend on it.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Price's God mode play had nothing to do with that? Just look at the numbers..the team did not improve.

And while you think Nill is no big deal, your GM told everyone that getting one player let alone 2 the caliber of Seguin and Spezza was next to impossible. Nill did it in a year.

Bergie's "work" is inflated by the work of a superstar goalie that carried a team and covered a lot of ineptitude.

Lateral moves for 4th line players are getting way more recognition than they should .

Exactly. Team has not progressed much if at all since 12-13. That was a transition year, with Gally's and Eller getting a bigger role and they looked good. Since then, the only rookie to break the lineup permanently is Beaulieu, two seasons later and he is in a minor role. And yet, the last two seasons were "transitional" seasons, while Eller and Chucky have either stagnated or put in the dog house since 12-13. Doesn't speak to a roster in transition.

If you asked this board in July 2013 how we felt, Bergevin would have had a 75%+ approval rating. Now? It's probably well below 50%.

The grace period is over.

 

[EveryDay]

http://www.tvasports.ca/2015/07/17/leblanc-avec-les-islanders


Leblanc just sign with the NYI on a two-way deal.

 

[Ezpz]

Kind of surprised he didn't go to Europe. It's pretty clear he doesn't put in the effort to make it in NA. Could get paid for a couple years in Switzerland or Sweden.

 

[hototogisu]

Seriously. You thought signing Komi and Beauchemin to top line centre contracts when they were second tier defensemen was a good idea? How about Lupal who's made of glass. The Kessel trade was panned from the get go and got worst when the Leafs finished second last that year. Phaneuf was a good trade but the contract they gave him afterwards was atrocious and even TSN knew it.

As for Holmgren, trading his two star players to make room for Bryz is not revisionist history. It was a ridiculous contract at the time. The Carter and Richardson traded themselves were somewhat a wash at the time. Trading Richards for Simmonds plus was a great trade but the trade for Voracek for Carter I didn't think was as good. Looks like now they were both great trades for Philly with one disasterous goalie signing.

Both Burke and Holmgren moves were received with mixed reviews at most at the time with the general attitude being "well, we'll see" by the media. As for the fans, let's be honest, most are super emotional and irrational anyways. I wouldn't put much stock in what a fan base is feeling anout their teams and the moves they make at they tend to be overly optimist and not look at the warts. Under their veneer of optimism is a deep pit of despair and loathing (talking about Leafs fans in general)

Again with this? It has nothing to do with what I thought, but what people's perception of those moves was (although you've clearly cherrypicked two of the worst to make your case). You seriously don't remember Habs fans on this very board pumping Burke's and Holmgren's tires? Then let's agree to disagree, I remember it perfectly well myself.

My question is, what makes Nill any different from those two right now anyway? Aside from your subjective opinion that Nill's moves were good and Burke and Holmgren's were not. Burke and Holmgren made some good moves too. But it doesn't matter because their teams never won anything. Which is why I'm reserving my praise for Nill until there's results.

 

[yoyo999]

Louis Leblanc has signed with the New York Islanders (1 year/2-way)

rds.ca

 

[Sterling Archer]

Again with this? It has nothing to do with what I thought, but what people's perception of those moves was (although you've clearly cherrypicked two of the worst to make your case). You seriously don't remember Habs fans on this very board pumping Burke's and Holmgren's tires? Then let's agree to disagree, I remember it perfectly well myself.

My question is, what makes Nill any different from those two right now anyway? Aside from your subjective opinion that Nill's moves were good and Burke and Holmgren's were not. Burke and Holmgren made some good moves too. But it doesn't matter because their teams never won anything. Which is why I'm reserving my praise for Nill until there's results.

Not everyone perceives everything the same way. I obviously focused more on the one view than the other. As for "cherry" picking, I used the most relevant examples of each GMs tenure. Not sure which other examples were more significant than those that you would have liked me to note, but feel free to add them if you respond.

As for Nill, I guess time will tell. The difference I see off the bat is that he got some very good assets for very little. We'll see if it pays off in the end but at least he's doing everything he can to build his team to be more competitive.

 

[Lebowski]

I don't see why we'd have to wait until he wins a cup to claim his Seguin and Spezza deals were friggin' steals.

 

[HabsChik*]

I hope Louis kicks ass in LI. He was never really given a chance in MTL.

 

[Bergevillain]

I hope Louis kicks ass in LI. He was never really given a chance in MTL.

He was given so many chances and never once looked like he belonged.

 

[Alex514]

He's a bust.

Who Cares about LeBlanc....

 

[hototogisu]

I hope Louis kicks ass in LI. He was never really given a chance in MTL.

Because he couldn't play his way out of Hamilton first...

 

[JusticeBeaver]

lololololol

Ridiculous.

Spoiler Lebust and Colbust reverse bust and play in Brooklyn.

I actually don't think Colberg has busted yet.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

I hope Louis kicks ass in LI. He was never really given a chance in MTL.

0.5ppg player in the AHL, 0.2 in the NHL... He sure didn't help his case.

He looked ok for a few NHL games early on but he never improved.

 

[Ezpz]

0.5ppg player in the AHL... He sure didn't help his case.

He looked ok for a few NHL games early on but he never improved.

Didn't stop them from giving Thomas 20 games.

At least Leblanc was only being outplayed by half the top six instead of the entire top 6 like Thomas.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Didn't stop them from giving Thomas 20 games.

At least Leblanc was only being outplayed by half the top six instead of the entire top 6 like Thomas.

I have no idea what they saw in Thomas. Therrien must have a little je-ne-sait-quoi for short men

 

[JayKing]

Louis Leblanc has signed with the New York Islanders (1 year/2-way)

rds.ca

Who cares. He's AHL bound and soon enough he'll be playing in some euro league.

 

[DenverHabsFan]

He's a bust.

Who Cares about LeBlanc....

Apparently, some people care. LaPresse has it under a big red "breaking news" on their hockey page.

link

I'm 100% "pure laine" but I'll never understand the obsession with covering mediocre athletes just because they are "québécois".

 

[Sterling Archer]

Apparently, some people care. LaPresse has it under a big red "breaking news" on their hockey page.

link

I'm 100% "pure laine" but I'll never understand the obsession with covering mediocre athletes just because they are "québécois".

It was that or "Latendresse spotted at local McDonalds!!!!!!...!!!!!!!!"

 

[FireBurningBin]

He was given so many chances and never once looked like he belonged.

He did for a period of time before his ankle injury.