The Out of Town Thread CVIII - Free Agency Edition

[Lebowski]

You're right...perhaps he should of started off his tenure by waiving everyone and starting from scratch

That way he could really put his stamp on the team.

You really don't get it.

 

[Lebowski]

Like it or not, this is not the way Bergevin operates. It seems. I'm not impressed with Dallas and they will miss the playoffs next year again.

Most likely. I guess it sucks inheriting Kari Lethonen and Alex Goligoski instead of Carey Price and PK Subban, but what can you do, right?

 

[Agalloch]

Most likely. I guess it sucks inheriting Kari Lethonen and Alex Goligoski instead of Carey Price and PK Subban, but what can you do, right?

I think what it means is that Gauthier sucked to finish last place in the East with these guys. We will see what happens but the summer is far from over.

 

[417]

You really don't get it.

Oh I get it...Jim Nill's made some sexy moves, and more important, some recent moves.

So his approval rating around here is high

Nevermind his teams have regressed every year under his tenure, meanwhile Bergevin's teams have done the opposite.

Ridiculous...

You couldn't pay me enough to trade the Habs roster for the Stars one...Seguin & Benn included.

That team is flawed

 

[Lebowski]

I think what it means is that Gauthier sucked to finish last place in the East with these guys. We will see what happens but the summer is far from over.

Price and Subban matured over the last 3 years. They were budding stars at that point, now they're established stars.

Fun fact, most of the teams underlying numbers from this year are awfully similar to what they were in the 2011-2012 debacle of a season. I guess having a goalie playing at a .933 SV% really helps winning games, though.

Also, I'm not one of those posters blaming Bergevin for what he hasn't done yet. Of course, there's still time. Of course, there's no rush. But when the discussion turns into his trackrecord over the last 3 years, and Jim Nill's name gets brought up, I'm going to tear Bergevin apart. Because he really doesn't stack up to what Nill has done for Dallas in such a small timespan. And very little GM can stack up to Jim Nill at the moment, for the record.

 

[Alex514]

MB is building his team from the back, and Nill is doing it from the front.

 

[Lebowski]

Oh I get it...Jim Nill's made some sexy moves, and more important, some recent moves.

So his approval rating around here is high

Nevermind his teams have regressed every year under his tenure, meanwhile Bergevin's teams have done the opposite.

Ridiculous...

You couldn't pay me enough to trade the Habs roster for the Stars one...Seguin & Benn included.

That team is flawed

And that's why you really, really, really don't get it.

I don't see anyone arguing the Stars have a better overall roster than the Habs. So if that's the conclusion to your argumentation, well, you've been off-track since the beginning.

So yes, you really don't get it.

 

[donghabs98]

Please continue the Bergevin talk in the Bergevin thread. If you want to discus he moves Dallas has made continue on.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'll repeat what I said earlier...here are some of the names on the Habs roster when Marc Bergevin took over in May 2012

Defense - Tomas Kaberle, Yannick Weber, Raphael Diaz, Chris Campoli, Frédéric St-Denis

Forwards - Scott Gomez, Mathieu Darche, Louis Leblanc, Rene Bourque, Petteri Nokelainen, Aaron Palushaj, Mike Blunden, Blake Geoffrion, Gabriel Dumont, Andreas Engqvist

Now I realize I handpicked the worse names on there, but just the fact that he took over a team that had some of those names kind of shows you that he didn't exactly inherit a pot of gold

If you want to say the Habs roster was better, that's fine...I think the difference is negligible personally, and it's only because the Habs have Carey Price who happens to be the best player in the NHL.

But go back to 2012...was Carey Price reputation as stellar as it is today??? Many of you were ready to run Carey Price out of town back then, but since Stephane Waite took over, Carey Price has reached another level

hmmm...I can't put my finger on who hired Stéphane Waite...can you help me out?

I'll answer your repost with my own.

Well considering the Habs had capitulated the season and were in full on tank mode, that list doesn't mean much.

Let's look at the names he inherited that you failed to mention.

Patches Price PK Markov Plex Beaulieu Tinordi, Gally 3rd overall pick. More than enough to build a core of players around wouldn't you say?

Jim Nill basically had Jamie Benn, Lehtonen, Loui Eriksson, Goligoski, Oleksiak, Chiasson, Dillon etc.

I'll take the Habs starting point over what the Stars has everyday of the week.

So if you think that a core of Price, PK, Markov, Patches, young players like Beau, Gally, Pateryn, Tinner and a top 3 draft pick is better than the core Nill had to start of with of Jamie Benn, Lehtonen, Loui Eriksson, Goligoski, Oleksiak, Chiasson, Dillon etc. than I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you.

Literally every Hab player on that list is better than every Star player with the exception of Benn who's a super stud.

Otherwise, your list of rag tag group of soon to be UFA's, last ditch effort prospects and collection of spare pieces would have made it easier for Bergevin as outside of Gomez, he had a clean slate to play with outside of that core group of players.

As for Waite, great goalie coach and move by Bergevin. Price was already a superstar before him so yeah...

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Nill also had a bunch of cap space that allowed him to take on Spezza, sign Hemsky/Gonchar and even take on Horcoff's awful contract for some reason.

Bergevin had some nice pieces but also had almost $30 million tied up in trash/average players like Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, Cole, Gorges and Gionta when he took over.

 

[Lebowski]

Nill also had a bunch of cap space that allowed him to take on Spezza, sign Hemsky/Gonchar and even take on Horcoff's awful contract for some reason.

Bergevin had some nice pieces but also had almost $30 million tied up in trash/average players like Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, Cole, Gorges and Gionta when he took over.

Both of which were bought out with the compliance buy out.

Cole, Gorges and Gionta dead cap space... Cole was coming off a 35 goals, 61 points season, Gionta had been one of the top offensive contributor as well as the captain of the team for a number of years and Gorges was an established top 4 defenseman with us. Spare me the .

 

[ECWHSWI]

I'll answer your repost with my own.



So if you think that a core of Price, PK, Markov, Patches, young players like Beau, Gally, Pateryn, Tinner and a top 3 draft pick is better than the core Nill had to start of with of Jamie Benn, Lehtonen, Loui Eriksson, Goligoski, Oleksiak, Chiasson, Dillon etc. than I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you.

Literally every Hab player on that list is better than every Star player with the exception of Benn who's a super stud.

Otherwise, your list of rag tag group of soon to be UFA's, last ditch effort prospects and collection of spare pieces would have made it easier for Bergevin as outside of Gomez, he had a clean slate to play with outside of that core group of players.

As for Waite, great goalie coach and move by Bergevin. Price was already a superstar before him so yeah...

IF you're to list Habs prospects, might want to do the same with Stars prospects...

 

[Sterling Archer]

IF you're to list Habs prospects, might want to do the same with Stars prospects...

I did list some of them. Given what their roster was, it was most of the names on the list.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

MB is building his team from the back, and Nill is doing it from the front.

MB inherited Price, Subban and Markov.

Pretty hard to top that trio league wide, only comparable would be Nashville with Rinne, Weber and Josi.

He's added one #2-3 d man in 4 years. He's hardly built anything.

Jim Nill has had far more work cut out for him to get his roster to respectability and didn't inherit as many goods as MB did. I think he's done a great job adding value pieces at the forward position without giving up too much. Does he need to address his defense and goaltending? Yeah, absolutely.

What's even harder to acquire than a top-6 forward? Top tier goaltenders and defensemen.

 

[yoyo999]

Martin Rucinsky Retires

I feel like I should have started thsi thread 5 years ago...There goes our scoring winger.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/16/longtime-nhler-rucinsky-announces-retirement/

 

[Sorinth]

Oh I get it...Jim Nill's made some sexy moves, and more important, some recent moves.

So his approval rating around here is high

Nevermind his teams have regressed every year under his tenure, meanwhile Bergevin's teams have done the opposite.

Ridiculous...

You couldn't pay me enough to trade the Habs roster for the Stars one...Seguin & Benn included.

That team is flawed

What's ridiculous is you straight out lying

The season before Nill was hired they finished 21st in the league with a .500 record. In the two years since then they had a .555 record and a .561 record. So Dallas has actually improved every year under Nill.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Bergevin biggest fail has been the center position.

When he first arrived 4 years ago the most glaring weaknesses of the habs was the center position and toughness.. while he addressed the toughness part and when he got Galchenyuk it also looked like a fixed the center issues. Now 4 years later. Galchenyuk is not a center yet and we have Desharnais as our #1 center and an aging Plekanec. Eller never took off and we have no prospect that can fill that void.

What you call "biggest fail", I call "the one issue he hasn't fixed yet".

 

[hototogisu]

Difference is that when the Leafs or Holmgren made a move, everyone thought they were horrible (outside of Toronto based media of course).

Time will tell but at least the guy is doing something to improve his team and getting quality pieces to make the Stars a more desired destination.

Come on, I lived through those moves same as you. Don't try to sell me an alternate history. Plenty of praise was heaped on Burke and Holmgren because they were Aggressive and Being Active. I'm not even talking about from the media, I'm talking about from fans of this very team.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Come on, I lived through those moves same as you. Don't try to sell me an alternate history. Plenty of praise was heaped on Burke and Holmgren because they were Aggressive and Being Active. I'm not even talking about from the media, I'm talking about from fans of this very team.

I don't remember anyone hyping Burke.

I do remember people hyping Holmgren but really, in retrospect, were those moves actually that bad? The JVR trade is the only one I can put my finger on.. that was a brutal one but the trades for Carter/Richards were actually pretty good.

Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn.. they didn't either of those trades. They ended up being fair value. Pronger not being able to play anymore ended up being the issue.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Add Couturier to that list, as well.

 

[Jamie Thomas]

Something Nill should probably check into



You guys actually think this is a team in good shape? Yeah their offense is sexy and they'll score a ton of goals - just like they did last year. But unless they get a miracle year out of their goalies (and I hope they do, considering they're investing like $9m in them)...they're not going anywhere.

You are totally right. Their goalies only have .914 and .916 in career Sv%. They flat out suck and they really need "miracles" from them.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You are totally right. Their goalies only have .914 and .916 in career Sv%. They flat out suck and they really need "miracles" from them.

Their main problem is their defence is terrible and Spezza is a defensive nightmare at center.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Come on, I lived through those moves same as you. Don't try to sell me an alternate history. Plenty of praise was heaped on Burke and Holmgren because they were Aggressive and Being Active. I'm not even talking about from the media, I'm talking about from fans of this very team.

Burke was the exact wrong guy for the Leafs. He's got the ability to pull a big trade but that's not what they needed. They needed a rebuild and he wasn't the guy for it.

 

[Miller Time]

IMO their D is among the worst in the league, easily.

Their goalies are the wildcard. Lehtonen can be a top ten goalie or one of the worst in the league. Niemi's highs are not as high but he's more consistently average. But both are far from safe bets.

Nill is like the new Holmgren, making some big splash every offseason while failing to address any real needs and people eat it up anyway because "at least he's doing something!". Maybe Nill, like Holmgren, will fluke his way into a finals appearance one year.

Its subjective, of course, but if take their current group heading into next season (ignoring the long term aspect) over Arizona, Boston, Carolina, Edmonton, NJ, LAK*, philly... And then there's another 5-7 teams that would be a toss up.

Easily middle of the pack in terms of ability, balance, depth.

 

[Hackett]

You are totally right. Their goalies only have .914 and .916 in career Sv%. They flat out suck and they really need "miracles" from them.

I don't think thats a great metric to measure how these goalies will do next season. Lehtonen was not good last season, and niemi lost the trust in San Jose.

They both have something to prove, and its far from a given that this duo is the answer.