Online Series: The Orville : New Horizons - March 10, 2022 on Hulu

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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That was really good! It started out slowly, but it kept building and building.

It really reminded me of The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 in the end. I wonder if we'll see a "Battle of Wolf 359" to start the 2nd part.

It seemed dumb to me for Mercer to confront them. He was a little too naive there. I would've had them try to get away as soon as they discovered the bodies, be prevented from leaving and only then confront them. It's not a big deal, though.

It'll be interesting to see how they get out of this, even if they receive Isaac's help. It might end up seeming a little convenient and cheap, like the ending of The Best of Both Worlds or War of the Worlds, but I suppose that comes with the territory of having a vastly superior foe.
 
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CaptainCrunch67

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That was really good! It started out slowly, but it kept building and building.

It really reminded me of The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 in the end. I wonder if we'll see a "Battle of Wolf 359" to start the 2nd part.

It seemed dumb to me for Mercer to confront them. He was a little too naive there. I would've had them try to get away as soon as they discovered the bodies, be prevented from leaving and only then confront them. It's not a big deal, though.

It'll be interesting to see how they get out of this, even if they receive Isaac's help. It might end up seeming a little convenient and cheap, like the ending of The Best of Both Worlds or War of the Worlds, but I suppose that comes with the territory of having a vastly superior foe.

I think that Ed and the crew in the end didn't understand Isaac and they believed that he was their friend, so the confrontation makes good sense and really pounds home that the Kaylons are remorseless machines.

In hind sight it would have been smarter for him to leave, but we all want to give our friends the benefit of the doubt.

However the question is going to be, did Isaac know of his actual mission, and keep it as a secret, or was he programmed not to know the extent of his mission.

The other question I have is about the blue eyed appearance of Isaac. And if in fact he's the actual primary Kaylon.

Its going to be hard to redeem him because his actions actually lead to a lot of rather brutal deaths on the Orville, and unlike a Picard who was kidnapped by the Borg and assimilated but still had that bit of Picard in him. If Isaac knew all along that the plan was probably to exterminate the humans on earth, then he's pretty much pure evil and not really redeemable unless the wipe out everything in him that's Isaac.

I should have guessed this a long time ago. Kaylon is too close to Cylon, and in the first episode Ed described the Kaylon as incredibly xenophobic.
 

Acadmus

pastured mod
Jul 22, 2003
16,963
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Anyone realize this is almost the opposite of The Borg?

Instead of "Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated." it's "Coexistence is futile, prepare to be annihilated."

I'm also stricken by how this show has become much less of a comedy and much more of, finally, a good dramatic Star Trek series with some light-heartedness, and the best sci-fi show in years. Well played, Mr. MacFarlane. If only it really could have been set in the Trek universe...
 
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Osprey

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I think that Ed and the crew in the end didn't understand Isaac and they believed that he was their friend, so the confrontation makes good sense and really pounds home that the Kaylons are remorseless machines.

In hind sight it would have been smarter for him to leave, but we all want to give our friends the benefit of the doubt.

However the question is going to be, did Isaac know of his actual mission, and keep it as a secret, or was he programmed not to know the extent of his mission.

The other question I have is about the blue eyed appearance of Isaac. And if in fact he's the actual primary Kaylon.

Its going to be hard to redeem him because his actions actually lead to a lot of rather brutal deaths on the Orville, and unlike a Picard who was kidnapped by the Borg and assimilated but still had that bit of Picard in him. If Isaac knew all along that the plan was probably to exterminate the humans on earth, then he's pretty much pure evil and not really redeemable unless the wipe out everything in him that's Isaac.

I should have guessed this a long time ago. Kaylon is too close to Cylon, and in the first episode Ed described the Kaylon as incredibly xenophobic.

Yeah, I understand giving friends the benefit of the doubt, which is why I'm not bothered by it or anything. I just think that finding half a million humanoid corpses, coupled with all of those likely weapons that the Kaylons are actively building, overrules giving a friend the benefit of the doubt and self preservation and warning the fleet become higher priorities.

As for the question of whether Isaac knew, I believe that that was answered. He openly admitted that his data gathering mission wasn't to decide on entry into the Union but to decide whether humanity deserved to coexist with them.

That's a good point about the deaths on the Orville. I suppose that he might be excused of those, though, since it seemingly wasn't his fault that they went to Kaylon and those officers chose to fight back. That said, if he ends up returning to the Orville, things probably won't be exactly as they were before. Suspicion and dirty looks might follow him around, especially from those who were friends of the deceased, and even the ranking officers, his "friends," may be more careful around him.
 
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CaptainCrunch67

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Aug 23, 2005
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The story line of the episode after next week has Ed trying to negotiate a treaty with the Krill. I really don't think this story line is going to go away after the next episode. The biologics might win the battle, but I think this war goes to the end of the yea with the Krill joining the fight.
 

Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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Mojo Dojo Casa House
TONIGHT: Seth rips off the Borg, Cybermen, Daleks and Nazis. Malloy singing. Ships Doctor is in love with a genocidal machine. And a child runs off without anyone noticing.
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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Instead of "Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated." it's "Coexistence is futile, prepare to be annihilated."

I can relate. I'm currently battling an ant problem. Coexistence is impossible. Extermination is the only option. My trash can is starting to look like the caves underneath Kaylon.

Edit: Febreeze is a great substitute for Raid. It kills those inferior biologics instantly.

TONIGHT: Seth rips off the Borg, Cybermen, Daleks and Nazis. Malloy singing. Ships Doctor is in love with a genocidal machine. And a child runs off without anyone noticing.

It's cute how you're mostly negative. It reminds me of myself in the Discovery thread. Keep it up :thumbu:.
 
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Jussi

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It's cute how you're mostly negative. It reminds me of myself in the Discovery thread. Keep it up :thumbu:.

I'm not. Just not digging on what stuff the early part of the season consisted of or plot choices. It's not a negative to admit the Kaylon borrow heavily from other scifi species.
 

Roo Returns

Skjeikspeare No More
Mar 4, 2010
9,676
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How are they going to keep our AI friend around in the future? I was talking with a friend and the one general thing about Star Trek shows is the only time a cast changes is when an actor wants off the show or there are contractual disputes(yes I know I'm not counting McFadden in Season Two TNG). That goes for Whitney in TOS, Crosby in TNG, Wheaton in TNG, Forbes in TNG/DS9 (they wanted her to have the Kira role), Farrell in DS9, and Lien in VOY. I hope they don't go all Dallas on us.
 

peate

Smiley
Feb 16, 2007
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The Island
I think Isaac ends up rebelling against his people and helps Earth. Curious how he's the only android with blue eyes?
 

ThePhoenixx

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Aug 7, 2005
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How are they going to keep our AI friend around in the future? I was talking with a friend and the one general thing about Star Trek shows is the only time a cast changes is when an actor wants off the show or there are contractual disputes(yes I know I'm not counting McFadden in Season Two TNG). That goes for Whitney in TOS, Crosby in TNG, Wheaton in TNG, Forbes in TNG/DS9 (they wanted her to have the Kira role), Farrell in DS9, and Lien in VOY. I hope they don't go all Dallas on us.

How was he deactivated in the first place?

I think this might be leading up to where he was deactivated (internal programming) because he was malfunctioning due to having feelings for the children which made him not compatible, able to co-exist, etc. That's why they were going to junk him.

Can't have machines feeling things. Could lead to war, etc. See the irony?

Once he was re-activated he had to play along as they could just shut down the ship, and him, at anytime if they tried to escape.

He saves the day and gets to stay on the ship and be loved.
 

Canadiens Ghost

Mr. Objectivity
Dec 14, 2011
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Once he was re-activated he had to play along as they could just shut down the ship, and him, at anytime if they tried to escape.

He saves the day and gets to stay on the ship and be loved.

This is what I was thinking as well.

I have one lingering question however. If the Kaylons intend on wiping out all organics, why are they keeping the crew of the Orville alive? They serve no purpose.
 

Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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The evil AI plot was a bit obvious, the entire episode was pretty ominous. I fully expect Isaac to save the day now as well. Good episode overall though.
 

CaptainCrunch67

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Aug 23, 2005
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How was he deactivated in the first place?

I think this might be leading up to where he was deactivated (internal programming) because he was malfunctioning due to having feelings for the children which made him not compatible, able to co-exist, etc. That's why they were going to junk him.

Can't have machines feeling things. Could lead to war, etc. See the irony?

Once he was re-activated he had to play along as they could just shut down the ship, and him, at anytime if they tried to escape.

He saves the day and gets to stay on the ship and be loved.

I think that he's willing in the plan. When they flipped up his face and reprogrammed him, they would have probably put in the evil robot programming. Though I believe that he was evil all along and following his programming.

I also think that he's different from the other droids because he's either a advanced prototype kill bot, or he's actually primary.

It will be difficult to bring him back to the crew because of the number of crew deaths that he caused.

If they bring him back its because they capture him and completely wipe out his programming, because frankly if there's any Kaylon programming left nobody is going to trust him. Plus he completely dirtbagged Claire and the kids, there's no coming back from that.
 

ThePhoenixx

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Aug 7, 2005
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I think that he's willing in the plan. When they flipped up his face and reprogrammed him, they would have probably put in the evil robot programming. Though I believe that he was evil all along and following his programming.

I also think that he's different from the other droids because he's either a advanced prototype kill bot, or he's actually primary.

It will be difficult to bring him back to the crew because of the number of crew deaths that he caused.

If they bring him back its because they capture him and completely wipe out his programming, because frankly if there's any Kaylon programming left nobody is going to trust him. Plus he completely dirtbagged Claire and the kids, there's no coming back from that.

If they go the other route I think he will be the evil leader. The figurehead of the all out war to come.

Or something corny happens and the whole race is wiped out due to a virus...

Too bad one had to wade through a lot of suck this year to see the few good episodes.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
99,030
65,228
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A few points:

1. It's always admirable when they keep a plot hook going for almost one and a half seasons before letting the other shoe drop. I admire the restraint and the patience, and it heightens the emotional impact of the betrayal. It's especially twisted when you think they had thrown a goodbye party for him and within a day or two the crewmen at that party were getting slaughtered.

2. The obvious reason why Isaac has blue eyes and the others have red eyes is so that the viewer can distinguish him from the rest of his species on-screen when he isn't alone. I wonder if they'll provide an in-universe reason for why that is, but ultimately I think it's just for the viewer's benefit.

3. The Orville is ultimately an optimistic show, not a cynical or dark one, so I would put my money on Isaac saving the day in dramatic fashion. I think the crew would take him back if he either sacrifices himself, saves the kids, or destroys most of his own species in an effort to save his new friends. I think I'd be prepared to forgive him if he was willing to go to such lengths against his own people. Ultimately, it was the crew who decided to go to Kaylon, not him. They had clearly already decided on invasion when Isaac was deactivated - they alluded to the fact that a binary decision was an easy one for Kaylons to make.

4. However, I'd have to give the show a massive amount of credit if Isaac does not turn out to be the good guy. There's sort of an interesting lesson where the crew (and the viewers) anthropomorphize Isaac reflexively and almost unconsciously, attributing his behaviour and actions to some deep-seated, hidden emotional capacity. Meanwhile, he's usually brutally honest when he continuously states that he's only doing things to gain information about biological life forms. Is he actually feeling anything or is it simply wishful thinking on our part?

Ultimately, the relationship episode with the doctor seems to indicate that Isaac had a form of attachment that we equate as love because he operates more efficiently with her around. So as I said earlier, all signs point to him turning the tables on his people.

5. I'm willing to let a few details slide in the interest of expediency. Yes, it was kind of silly that the kid was able to freely travel around the city, and accidentally found his way into the catacombs to find millions of biological remains.

You can sort of explain it away by realizing that the Kaylons are ultimately about efficiency and since no one visits their planet, there's no real need to have extra security or have the remains hidden. You might expect them to post a sentry by their ship, but again, you could argue that their superiority complex inhibits them from regarding the Orville as any kind of threat whatsoever. Using the ant analogy from above, do you post a guard for ants or do you simply wipe them all out when they become a nuisance?

6. I liked how easily the Orville was dealt with when it first arrives on Kaylon. It really drives home the discrepancy in technological capability and might.

Canadiens Ghost said:
If the Kaylons intend on wiping out all organics, why are they keeping the crew of the Orville alive? They serve no purpose.

Having a few hostages around never hurts.
 
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ThePhoenixx

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
9,577
6,295
This is what I was thinking as well.

I have one lingering question however. If the Kaylons intend on wiping out all organics, why are they keeping the crew of the Orville alive? They serve no purpose.

Show would be over? ;)

Maybe he convinced his people they were necessary?

I don't know about the hostage part. What would they need hostages for? It's like you or I grabbing a monkey hostage so the troop won't attack Uzi-packing us.
 

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