HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[26Mats]

They've sold players two years in a row and will sell players again this year.

If anyone wants to buy.

The goalies:

Allen - I predict no one will want Allen, unless we take a contract back with negative value, like the DeSmith for Pearson and a 3rd deal. Also, I don't think Hughes will want to use his last rention spot and one spot next year on the measly return Allen could garner.
Primeau - not much interest either.

The dmen:

Savard - could get good interest, especially at 50% retained for 2 years.
Kovacevic & Lindstrom & Harris - could garner some interest as depth dmen for a pick. Not sure which round for each.
Matheson - I think he's staying even if teams offer a late 1st.

The forwards.

Monahan - I'd rather keep him.
Dvo - I don't think Hughes will want to use his last rention spot and one spot next year on the measly return he could garner.
Anderson, Gallagher, and Armia - untradeable.
Pearson - not sure he's tradeable unless we retain 50%. Do we want to use our last retention spot on a 5th to 7th round pick? Depends on the other options on the table for that last retention spot.

 

[Guy Larose]

We acquired a pick to take on salary, got back two players who we immediately turned into tradeable assets and picks.. how is that not selling in the Summer? We also traded Edmundson, another player we sold in the Summer. We moved out Hoffman and Pitlick as well in the transaction.

Everything we are doing is in line with a tanking/rebuilding team.

Rebuild, definitely, tanking no. We got rid of dead wood and acquired other dead wood in Pearson. Lateral move.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If anyone wants to buy.

The goalies:

Allen - I predict no one will want Allen, unless we take a contract back with negative value, like the DeSmith for Pearson and a 3rd deal. Also, I don't think Hughes will want to use his last rention spot and one spot next year on the measly return Allen could garner.
Primeau - not much interest either.

The dmen:

Savard - could get good interest, especially at 50% retained for 2 years.
Kovacevic & Lindstrom & Harris - could garner some interest as depth dmen for a pick. Not sure which round for each.
Matheson - I think he's staying even if teams offer a late 1st.

The forwards.

Monahan - I'd rather keep him.
Dvo - I don't think Hughes will want to use his last rention spot and one spot next year on the measly return he could garner.
Anderson, Gallagher, and Armia - untradeable.
Pearson - not sure he's tradeable unless we retain 50%. Do we want to use our last retention spot on a 5th to 7th round pick? Depends on the other options on the table for that last retention spot.

Monahan and Pearson will be gone without a doubt.
Savard is either gone this year or next year.
Dvorak is in the same boat as Savard.
We don't know what will happen but Kovacevic, Lindstrom and Evans might be of particular interest for contending teams.
Armia or Gallagher can't be moved.
Anderson will depend.
Allen might be moveable as well.

 

[26Mats]

Monahan and Pearson will be gone without a doubt.
Savard is either gone this year or next year.
Dvorak is in the same boat as Savard.
We don't know what will happen but Kovacevic, Lindstrom and Evans might be of particular interest for contending teams.
Armia or Gallagher can't be moved.
Anderson will depend.
Allen might be moveable as well.

Monahan - I don't know how HuGo see things. But I wouldn't move Monahan for the price he's likely to garner. A 3c or top six winger with his skills and leadership are more valueable to the team than I think teams will be willing to pay for him. A late 1st is the piont where I'm on the fence. I lean towards no for it. I definitely say no to a 2nd.

Anderson - yes he can get back to positive trade value with production. I'd trade him the moment he has positive value for whatever we can get if that moment ever comes again. We don't want to be stuck with 12M on the cap for Gallgher and Anderson for 3 years after this one.

Armia - is also gone next year, like Savard, Allen, and Dvo, because his contract is up. Those 4, plus Petry not being on the books, will give good cap relief for summer 2025.

Pearson - may not be traded, like Drouin, Perreault, etc.. weren't if teams don't want his salary. Teams don't want vets with big or moderate cap hits. Maybe he gets a Bonino return, where a team pays us and a 3rd party team to retain salary, 5th round picks. Maybe not.

Evans - could get more interest than I would think. I'd rather keep him unless the offer is a good draft pick.

 

[montreal]

doesn't matter what it's called, tanking, rebuilding, as people will have different definitions. The Habs aren't openly tanking or Beaudin would be our #1 D with Norlinder as his RD partner and Primeau get the bulk of every start.

It's also a different situation then you would usually see, as this team has been doing this for years, half rebuilding, half going for it. Remember the Molson letter that said it could take up to 7 years and then the next year he said the rebuild was over.

In the end the only thing that matters is the degree with which you make less mistakes then others. Everyone makes mistakes and even a broken clock is right twice a day, ALL HUMANS will be RIGHT and WRONG, just a matter of being right more then your are wrong and to what degree.

If the Habs hope to contend again in the future, they need to make more right choices then wrong ones. Only time will tell if that's the case or not.

 

[montreal]

when I see this I'm not too worried about the rebuild, yes many teams are shit, we'll see in the coming months how it unfolds

 

[montreal]

 

[sandviper]

doesn't matter what it's called, tanking, rebuilding, as people will have different definitions. The Habs aren't openly tanking or Beaudin would be our #1 D with Norlinder as his RD partner and Primeau get the bulk of every start.

It's also a different situation then you would usually see, as this team has been doing this for years, half rebuilding, half going for it. Remember the Molson letter that said it could take up to 7 years and then the next year he said the rebuild was over.

In the end the only thing that matters is the degree with which you make less mistakes then others. Everyone makes mistakes and even a broken clock is right twice a day, ALL HUMANS will be RIGHT and WRONG, just a matter of being right more then your are wrong and to what degree.

If the Habs hope to contend again in the future, they need to make more right choices then wrong ones. Only time will tell if that's the case or not.

I’d call this a reno… before any reno, you first have to clean up the shit left behind by the previous occupant. Some pieces are easy to sell, like Toffoli. Other pieces, like Gallagher, were bolted to the floor.

I don’t agree with all the decisions HuGo made but I know some here are calling for their heads or expecting the media to call them out but this is really only year 2 (21-22 year they only came halfway through) and these things take time. Anyone thinking playoffs next season or the one after, I dunno what to tell you but it isn’t happening.

 

[DAChampion]

Anyone thinking playoffs next season or the one after, I dunno what to tell you but it isn’t happening.

I'dike to see the Habs make the playoffs in 2025 and do so by a healthy margin in 2026.

 

[sandviper]

I'dike to see the Habs make the playoffs in 2025 and do so by a healthy margin in 2026.

Sure, I’d like to see them in the playoffs also but we’re so early in this rebuild. We’re lacking elite talent and our best young players haven’t taken that next step yet. Our defence has promise but they are far too young and inexperienced.

 

[DAChampion]

Sure, I’d like to see them in the playoffs also but we’re so early in this rebuild. We’re lacking elite talent and our best young players haven’t taken that next step yet. Our defence has promise but they are far too young and inexperienced.

It's not that early in the rebuild. They will have their 3rd lottery pick, the rebuild was accelerated by some of Bergevin's moves (Suzuki, Guhle, Caulfield) and a team doesn't need to do everything right to be average.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

It’s a business not a circle jerk for the die hard fanbase who contribute to minimal revenue intake.

And business is best when there’s strong league wide parity with optics of hope for playoff contention in latter half of a season…

Glad you enjoy it, personally I’ve never been less interested in the product.

 

[Rapala]

No worries folks we get LA next and they'll be putting their 10-0 away record on the line...

They have CBJ tonight.

 

[Wats]

Hate how most of the term vets are basically negative value: Gallagher, Dvorak, Anderson, Armia, maybe Allen.

 

[MtlSars]

This opinion has more than likely been voiced already but I still want to share...

I felt hesitant to post this after hearing of his signing because i was divided on the signing...

Claiming him on waivers was a great move because Primeau was still RFA and we needed a backup, we got him in 2021 and we were abysmal then. I had very little esteem for him last year and he did do great, Allen was often injured and he was relied on.

He's arguably our better goalie right now and I feel divided about this signing. On one hand, he has deserved this to a degree and has gotten better since his first days with the habs, if we can get a steady .900 goalie with this team that's arguably good enough.

On the other hand, there's the tank, now hear me out. We have had a history of amazing goalie in Montreal, from Plante, Dryden, Roy but even Thibault, Theodore, Halak, and our 2nd tier were still better than most without even mentioning Price who should've won a cup in his career if he wasn't playing behind hot trash for 15 years. We know more than most how a goalie can impact the game and is a key to winning. We need to draft high and build a perennial** contender that competes year in year out and has a 5-10 year window.... we need to focus on the forwards and defense and have them play in front of a subpar goalie until we get there...

ONCE YOU GET THERE, you get yourself a goalie that allows you to compete, if thats Jacob Fowler, Volovkhin or Miller even better, but if not you get yourself a good one.

Lets see what the last 10 stanley cup winners had in net:
Adin Hill?
Darcy Kuemper?
Vasilevsky x2
Binnington
Holtby
Matt Murray
Fleury
Corey Crawford?

The teams in front of them won the stanley cup more often than not, sometimes you get lucky and ride a hot goalie but for the most part that wasn't what got those teams to the promised land, they just need OK goaltending because they were the better team.

I have watched the Habs be mediocre for decades playing in front of an amazing goalies being outshot 40-20 and winning 2-1 playing shitty Jacques Lemaire Trap Hockey , be that Vigneault Therrien Martin Cunneyworth then Therrien again and Julien.....ugh I can't stand that shit no more.

Our young player can all flourish and grow and become better losing games 6-4 until we get there and win despite subpar goaltending rather than salvaged by decent one.

If theres a goalie that has value it's him and he has no NTC. Trade him now that some teams DO NEED better goaltending and get paid. Ride out Allen and Primeau until the wheels fall off...

This year and the next isnt the year to grab 12 more pts in the standings because of goaltending......we don,t want to get the WC spot, been there done that for 30 years....we want to dominate the division,,,,,

 

[montreal]

I'dike to see the Habs make the playoffs in 2025 and do so by a healthy margin in 2026.

that seems like a big ask, they seem far if not for how crappy so many teams are. I know there's talk of the cap going up a good bit but this team would need a lot of help to not be a bottom 10 team next year imo. But the big thing will be the progress of the youth and how much of a leap they take.

It's not that early in the rebuild. They will have their 3rd lottery pick, the rebuild was accelerated by some of Bergevin's moves (Suzuki, Guhle, Caulfield) and a team doesn't need to do everything right to be average.

You have to make the right picks and it's hard to say if that's the case yet or not.

Glad you enjoy it, personally I’ve never been less interested in the product.

I've tried watching some of the games and it's not easy.

Hate how most of the term vets are basically negative value: Gallagher, Dvorak, Anderson, Armia, maybe Allen.

MB really f***ed us bad and we could be in tough for years to come.

 

[McGees]

Real tank teams have bad vibes around the team. Our morale has to be one of the best in the league. Getting a top 5-10 at this point would be a huge win. 8-12 I’ve said since Dach went down.

 

[Gustave]

Buffalo is stealing our spot. Incredible.

 

[Sorinth]

It's not that early in the rebuild. They will have their 3rd lottery pick, the rebuild was accelerated by some of Bergevin's moves (Suzuki, Guhle, Caulfield) and a team doesn't need to do everything right to be average.

It's early in the sense of we don't know what we have with those lottery picks, one of which hasn't even been chosen yet. But in the sense that we probably aren't getting many top picks after this year then yes you can say we are already in the middle/transition part of our rebuild. If Slaf develops into a ppg player and Reinbacher becomes a top pairing D then we are well on are way to being a contender. If they become a 3rd liner and #4D then we will stay bottom-10 and end up in the Ottawa/Buffalo category of rebuilding forever.

About the only thing we can say is that Hughes believes enough in the pieces he inherited (The Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, +) that he thinks he can build a team a team where they are core pieces. And I personally don't think it's a crazy idea, yes Suzuki/Caufield might not put up the points that other superstars put up, but if Slaf, Dach, and our 2024 1st round pick reach that level then I wouldn't bet against them being a one of the league's best top-6s. And same goes for the D, where all of Guhle, Reinbacher, Barron, Xhekaj, Hutson, Engstrom, Struble, etc... end up is anyone's guess, but building a solid 6 deep D-man core with those pieces definitely seems possible.

 

[Riggins]

Buffalo is laughable, no matter how many top 10 picks they lay turds year after year. Maybe that's a little lesson for us here on team tank.

 

[Hins77]

Buffalo is laughable, no matter how many top 10 picks they lay turds year after year. Maybe that's a little lesson for us here on team tank.

They rely on too many youngs players imo. At that time, they should target a guy like Thomas Hertl, elias lindholm and giving assets. No matter the cost.

 

[ReHabs]

Sure, I’d like to see them in the playoffs also but we’re so early in this rebuild. We’re lacking elite talent and our best young players haven’t taken that next step yet. Our defence has promise but they are far too young and inexperienced.

The haven't taken the next step this year. That's the most troubling aspect. If we continue with renovation metaphor, the new carpenters haven't brought in the planks for the carpentry. So it's kinda stuck in place while we have to pay the mortgage and expenses. You can't be rebuilding without building, rebuilding and building imply the need for constant progress. Maybe not linear progress but progress all the same.

If the young players don't show that they have taken the next step then we are dead in the water (mixed metaphor, I know).

It's not that early in the rebuild. They will have their 3rd lottery pick, the rebuild was accelerated by some of Bergevin's moves (Suzuki, Guhle, Caulfield) and a team doesn't need to do everything right to be average.

It's far easier to stick with "this team should constantly try to improve" as a maxim rather than "we need to lose for half a decade and then evaluate whether that was enough losing".

The latter is craven, cynical, and not competitive -- I think too many fans across the NHL will soon get turned off by the mirage of high draft picks, Edmonton and Buffalo being key examples. Losing stinks and watching a crappy team lose simply stinks. You're 100% correct that the rebuild was accelerated. Suzuki, Guhle, and Caufield are three best case outcomes of "high draft picks" picks. We'll now have three more to add to them. That's an aggregate six years worth of high draft picks. But it doesn't seem enough... That's on Hughes, imo. He has to improve the roster and stop sitting on his hands.

It's early in the sense of we don't know what we have with those lottery picks, one of which hasn't even been chosen yet. But in the sense that we probably aren't getting many top picks after this year then yes you can say we are already in the middle/transition part of our rebuild. If Slaf develops into a ppg player and Reinbacher becomes a top pairing D then we are well on are way to being a contender. If they become a 3rd liner and #4D then we will stay bottom-10 and end up in the Ottawa/Buffalo category of rebuilding forever.

Agreed. If they swing and miss on the 1OA and 5OA, both of whom were controversial picks, they should be fired and competent management should be put in place.

About the only thing we can say is that Hughes believes enough in the pieces he inherited (The Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, +) that he thinks he can build a team a team where they are core pieces. And I personally don't think it's a crazy idea, yes Suzuki/Caufield might not put up the points that other superstars put up, but if Slaf, Dach, and our 2024 1st round pick reach that level then I wouldn't bet against them being a one of the league's best top-6s. And same goes for the D, where all of Guhle, Reinbacher, Barron, Xhekaj, Hutson, Engstrom, Struble, etc... end up is anyone's guess, but building a solid 6 deep D-man core with those pieces definitely seems possible.

It seems a lot has to go right for this team to come together but... coming into this season I had hope. I felt like so many youngsters had gone through their trial-by-fire and would step up this year. Unfortunately players like Harris, Xhekaj, Dach, and Caufield haven't demonstrated much improvement (yes, the injury to Dach is devastating). Guhle's PPG hasn't changed much, Suzuki's either. Slafkovsky looks like he's adapted to the speed of the NHL but there's a lot more runway before he can take off.

Since we aren't drafting top3, if too few young players improve, this season will be a net negative and have dark implications for the future.

 

[HuGort]

To me Suzuki is a playmaker and his numbers will always be limited to how good his linemates are to an extent. Huberdeau went from 115 points to 55 based on linemates and systems. Get a functional pp, more than one goal scored and see how much his numbers change. Even with all the huffing and puffing huberdeau is second on the Flames in points this year. He cannot create anything when their forwards can't finish plays that Barkov, Reinhart, verhaggy and others could.

Not saying Nick has 115 potential but in a better situation he would easily be a PPG player. He's skilled and generally consistent which is very valuable in the NHL where most guys take many games off.

Huberdeau only averaged 70 points a season though. The 115 point season was outlier. He's back to norm.

 

[sandviper]

The haven't taken the next step this year. That's the most troubling aspect. If we continue with renovation metaphor, the new carpenters haven't brought in the planks for the carpentry. So it's kinda stuck in place while we have to pay the mortgage and expenses. You can't be rebuilding without building, rebuilding and building imply the need for constant progress. Maybe not linear progress but progress all the same.

If the young players don't show that they have taken the next step then we are dead in the water (mixed metaphor, I know).


It's far easier to stick with "this team should constantly try to improve" as a maxim rather than "we need to lose for half a decade and then evaluate whether that was enough losing".

The latter is craven, cynical, and not competitive -- I think too many fans across the NHL will soon get turned off by the mirage of high draft picks, Edmonton and Buffalo being key examples. Losing stinks and watching a crappy team lose simply stinks. You're 100% correct that the rebuild was accelerated. Suzuki, Guhle, and Caufield are three best case outcomes of "high draft picks" picks. We'll now have three more to add to them. That's an aggregate six years worth of high draft picks. But it doesn't seem enough... That's on Hughes, imo. He has to improve the roster and stop sitting on his hands.


Agreed. If they swing and miss on the 1OA and 5OA, both of whom were controversial picks, they should be fired and competent management should be put in place.

It seems a lot has to go right for this team to come together but... coming into this season I had hope. I felt like so many youngsters had gone through their trial-by-fire and would step up this year. Unfortunately players like Harris, Xhekaj, Dach, and Caufield haven't demonstrated much improvement (yes, the injury to Dach is devastating). Guhle's PPG hasn't changed much, Suzuki's either. Slafkovsky looks like he's adapted to the speed of the NHL but there's a lot more runway before he can take off.

Since we aren't drafting top3, if too few young players improve, this season will be a net negative and have dark implications for the future.

Well, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I was a little concerned, and while I do agree with the first part of what you said (since I said it also re: next step), there are glimpses of what some of these players can do. Part of being young is figuring out how to put this together night in and out.

Suzuki has had some great nights, and when CC22 does his thing, he’s dangerous also. Slaf was in absolute beast mode against Seattle. Guhle is our best defender.

We still need more talent, but it’s not even midway yet in our rebuild, regardless if anyone thinks it’s year 2 or 3. We don’t know yet what those players in Laval are. We don’t know what Reinbacher or Hutson are. Is that goalie we drafted in Russia going to be the next Vasi? How about Fowler? Will Dach develop into the top-6 forward we saw and need when he returns?

Sticking with my weird ass renovation analogy, we ordered those parts to do the home repair but they just haven’t arrived yet.

 

[CHarlie]

Lets just keep improving and maybe we can find a diamond in the rough this draft......be interesting to see if we can add some assets as well with players like Dvorak, Monahan, Allen etc.......I dont watch my team as much as I use to but when I do I want to be atleast entertained.