HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[The Gr8 Dane]

If you don't think we can find them then it's pointless to rebuild through the draft even with lottery picks because the rebuild will fail anyways.

Pretty much every cup winner that you can point at and say look at those elite players they got via tanking, we can see they also got elite players in the draft outside of those lottery picks.
Tampa: Point, Kucherov, and Vasilevskiy
Washington: Kuznetzov
Pittsburgh: Guentzel
Chicago: Keith

About the only team that doesn't fit is Colorado, and even in their case Rantanen at 10 is debatable. We all know if we end up drafting 10th this year then the pro-tankers would consider that a failure to tank properly.

call me when we draft Kane Toews Stamkos Hedman Malkin Crosby Ovechkin.

Suzuki Caufield and Ghule fit your criteria of good non top picks so who will be our franchise player if we don't tank

 

[Sorinth]

We're good at drafting good players, not finding gems. As for the need to rebuild altogether, HuGo inherited most of the current young core from Bergevin. No HuGo pick has yet to make their mark (still early on).

The crux of the matter is that yes you can find elite players outside the top 10 however your odds are better inside the top 10. There's a reason tanking is a very real thing and why top 10 picks hold significantly more value than other picks. Also the tanking to draft elite talent in the top 10 and drafting elite talent elsewhere are not mutually exclusive so regardless of the possibility (with reduced probability) to draft elite players outside the top 10, you can still be pro tank and aim for the highest top 10 pick as well.

So for the record you will be perfectly happy if we end up with the 10th overall pick this year, and will consider it solid tank year right?

call me when we draft Kane Toews Stamkos Hedman Malkin Crosby Ovechkin.

Suzuki Caufield and Ghule fit your criteria of good non top picks so who will be our franchise player if we don't tank

So in your mind Stamkos is elite but Kucherov isn't?

 

[Tanknation]

call me when we draft Kane Toews Stamkos Hedman Malkin Crosby Ovechkin.

Suzuki Caufield and Ghule fit your criteria of good non top picks so who will be our franchise player if we don't tank

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Even if those player types you mention are avaliable, this stupid team will pick some project instead. They employ the most narrasstic, go against the grain scouts/management they can find.

 

[The Real Timo]

call me when we draft Kane Toews Stamkos Hedman Malkin Crosby Ovechkin.

Suzuki Caufield and Ghule fit your criteria of good non top picks so who will be our franchise player if we don't tank

Yoel!

 

[Gravity]

So for the record you will be perfectly happy if we end up with the 10th overall pick this year, and will consider it solid tank year right?


So in your mind Stamkos is elite but Kucherov isn't?

Nope, given how putrid this team is top 10 is bare bare minimum. I want an elite C or bust. I watched mediocre talent for my entire life. I want a bloody superstar C.

The second posters point was that we don't even have the elite talent that's found in the top 10 so expecting us to draft a Kucherov in the 2nd round is outlandish. We have cultivated a reputation of being averse to high end skill since Kovalev so if we can't find it in the top 10, we sure as shit ain't finding it in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[Gravity]

 

[Gravity]

I could make so many of these lol.

 

[Sorinth]

Nope, given how putrid this team is top 10 is bare bare minimum. I want an elite C or bust. I watched mediocre talent for my entire life. I want a bloody superstar C.

The second posters point was that we don't even have the elite talent that's found in the top 10 so expecting us to draft a Kucherov in the 2nd round is outlandish. We have cultivated a reputation of being averse to high end skill since Kovalev so if we can't find it in the top 10, we sure as shit ain't finding it in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

If we are unable to draft a Kucherov outside of a lottery pick then even if we draft the next McDavid with a lottery pick it won't matter. All the tank teams that won the cup had do to both.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I could make so many of these lol.
View attachment 772515

Based on my quick counting, there's enough ppg+ players with 16 games or more played for each team to have 1 and 1/2. Montreal has none.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Based on my quick counting, there's enough ppg+ players with 16 games or more played for each team to have 1 and 1/2. Montreal has none.

Yep, this is really annoying. Seems almost statistically impossible over a 25-30 year period.

 

[Rob Sense]

Based on my quick counting, there's enough ppg+ players with 16 games or more played for each team to have 1 and 1/2. Montreal has none.

But we aim for fine upstanding youngsters and avoid trouble makers like Cooley, Michkov and Kulich

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If we are unable to draft a Kucherov outside of a lottery pick then even if we draft the next McDavid with a lottery pick it won't matter. All the tank teams that won the cup had do to both.

saying it won't matter isn't an argument though , we are all fans of the team discussing what we want our team to do going forward

Yes we have no hope and the organisation is an offensive embarassment league wide , that doesn't mean im gonna stop being a fan lol i was cursed at birth im not a b**** that's gonna jump off the train even if we NEVER have a ppg player

we seem to agree , you have to do both , so lets do both , lets draft our 1C by tanking, its really not complicated whatsoever.

 

[cave troll]

So in your mind Stamkos is elite but Kucherov isn't?

Usually forwards picked on position like Stamkos (1OA) become elite players. 1 out of 10-15 busts.
Forwards picked in spots around Kucherov 58th (50th-60th)? 1 out of 100 become elite players.

 

[cave troll]

Nope, given how putrid this team is top 10 is bare bare minimum. I want an elite C or bust. I watched mediocre talent for my entire life. I want a bloody superstar C.

You should watch a top 10 prospect with the biggest size.
That's our guy !

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Usually forwards picked on position like Stamkos (1OA) become elite players. 1 out of 10-15 busts.
Forwards picked in spots around Kucherov 58th (50th-60th)? 1 out of 100 become elite players.

Also dismissing the Stamkos and Hedman pick is insanity that's the entire basis of the team for many years before they figured it out. Stamkos is better than any player the habs have had since god knows when.

It would be exactly like dismissing caufield and suzuki and Ghule as win nothing losers before we get franchise altering talent.

I could make so many of these lol.
View attachment 772515

This is why I will never put on the pompoms for the team i love until they prove me wrong and ice a semblance of a roster worth a dam.

The least entertaining on ice product for 3 decades sold at the highest price lmao

 

[DAChampion]

Regardless of all of the philosophizing, the Habs' have two remaining shots at tank picks.

Montreal's 2024 1st.
Calgary's 2025/2026 1st.

So hopefully between those two, Slafkovsky, and Reinbacher they get two elite players, because the team isn't tanking forever.

 

[morhilane]

because the team isn't tanking forever.

Oh my poor child...
If the Ducks, Devils, Sens and Wings aren't able to get out of the pits after 6+ years, why do you believe it will go faster with the Habs?

edit: I never really got the "poor child = naive thing" but I like the expression,

 

[rahad]

Regardless of all of the philosophizing, the Habs' have two remaining shots at tank picks.

Montreal's 2024 1st.
Calgary's 2025/2026 1st.

So hopefully between those two, Slafkovsky, and Reinbacher they get two elite players, because the team isn't tanking forever.

We finished bottom 5 twice with record breaking injury. With Dach on the team, it would have been hard to finish in the bottom 5 again. I will say that next year is probably the last tank year. Let hope Calgary/Florida are in the bottom 10 in 2025.

We will also have a very young team in the 2025-2026 season with the Mailloux, Hutson, Reinbacher, Roy and 2024 first round pick coming up with the Habs.

 

[DAChampion]

Oh my poor child...
If the Ducks, Devils, Sens and Wings aren't able to get out of the pits after 6+ years, why do you believe it will go faster with the Habs?

edit: I never really got the "poor child = naive thing" but I like the expression,

Ok, the team can stop tanking when Slafkovsky retires in 2038.

Alternatively, the maturation of young players, the return of Dach, and the increased cap room from Dvorak, Armia, Alzner, Petry, Allen gradually coming off the books will enable the team to take a step forward.

I also don't expect the Atlantic to remain the strongest division forever.

 

[Riggins]

Regardless of all of the philosophizing, the Habs' have two remaining shots at tank picks.

Montreal's 2024 1st.
Calgary's 2025/2026 1st.

So hopefully between those two, Slafkovsky, and Reinbacher they get two elite players, because the team isn't tanking forever.

It's hard to imagine this team not being bottom 10 again next year. Dach is back but Monahan is likely gone. Montembault could be traded or leave in free agency. The D isn't really getting better quickly besides Guhle. Even when the likes of Reinbacher, Hutson and Mailloux are integrated it's going to take years for it to develop into a strong unit.

We'll be back to .500 after today, hopefully we can close out the trip with losses in LA and Columbus.

 

[Habitant#1]

Oh my poor child...
If the Ducks, Devils, Sens and Wings aren't able to get out of the pits after 6+ years, why do you believe it will go faster with the Habs?

edit: I never really got the "poor child = naive thing" but I like the expression,

The expression is "Oh my sweet summer child..."
It comes from the Game of Thrones books/show: in the GoT universe, seasons last for years and and old woman is speaking to young child who has never experienced winter

 

[morhilane]

The expression is "Oh my sweet summer child..."
It comes from the Game of Thrones books/show: in the GoT universe, seasons last for years and and old woman is speaking to young child who has never experienced winter

"my poor child/children" expression for people who don't see the bad faith coming at them/they are in is older than the GoT universe. The French version "pauvre enfant" is in old kid songs and stories. GOT is pretty recent in comparison.

 

[Sorinth]

saying it won't matter isn't an argument though , we are all fans of the team discussing what we want our team to do going forward

Yes we have no hope and the organisation is an offensive embarassment league wide , that doesn't mean im gonna stop being a fan lol i was cursed at birth im not a b**** that's gonna jump off the train even if we NEVER have a ppg player

we seem to agree , you have to do both , so lets do both , lets draft our 1C by tanking, its really not complicated whatsoever.

For many posters their premise is that we can't do both, they say we can only get elite players with lottery picks. If that's the case the rebuilding via the draft is pointless/destined to fail/a bad plan, however you want to call it because a rebuild through the draft requires doing both, so if one of the two is impossible for us to do then we shouldn't embark on that type of rebuild because it won't work, ie it's pointless.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

For many posters their premise is that we can't do both, they say we can only get elite players with lottery picks. If that's the case the rebuilding via the draft is pointless/destined to fail/a bad plan, however you want to call it because a rebuild through the draft requires doing both, so if one of the two is impossible for us to do then we shouldn't embark on that type of rebuild because it won't work, ie it's pointless.

The probability of getting a Kucherov or trading for an Eichel is so small that you absolutely need to draft highly in order to guarantee the acquisition of talent. Of course, if you have Bobrov as your head of scouting... well, nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Gravity]

3 regulation wins. We have less than Chicago yet they have 8 less points.... This OT/SO points need to bloody stop!