HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Pompeius Magnus]

That Hawks/Coyotes game was pretty interesting. I'm already trying to figure out who will be in the bottom 5.

Hawks are one but I'm pretty sure the Coyotes will be closer to the playoffs, they are a much deeper team than previous years (this evaluation is not based on the 8-1 game; I watched 3 others games).

Sharks are the other sure one, they stink!

For us it depends if the goalies can keep their current streak of playing over expectations, thus far we look like a 11-15 draft selection, but you can see in the advanced stats / on the ice / injuries all kinds of signs it's not going to sustain. 6-10th looks like if Suzuki/Caufield/Monahan stay on the ice. If we lose only 1 of the 3, we could slide further.

For 3-5 its really not set yet, Anaheim and Calgary look so so, Colombus, Philly not out of the woods. I think Buffalo and Ottawa will surge at some point.

I hate the idea that the Hawks could get Bedard and Celebrini.

The Hawks are 100% finishing bottom 3. That roster is an ugly mishmash of cast off vets and career jobbers, with a few prospects sprinkled on top. They're still very much in rebuild mode.

 

[Yasuo]

Problem with tanking is we look more like the Rangers (Laf/Kakko) than the devils (hughes/hischier/hughes) when we pick high. Could change but it's not looking good so far. Hischier is not a great first overall but i remember it was either him or Nolan Patrick for first overall and they dodged a bullet.

 

[rahad]

Problem with tanking is we look more like the Rangers (Laf/Kakko) than the devils (hughes/hischier/hughes) when we pick high. Could change but it's not looking good so far.

Unlike the Rangers, UFA don't really want to come to Montreal. We need to draft good/elite player to win the stanley cup. Elite player won't sign with us or ask to be traded to Montreal.

 

[Takeru]

It's the annual october-cup overachieving performance, business as usual to me.
Nice to see improvement from our young guys but the big guns from the Atlantic will get their groove sooner or later and should push us out of WC.
Other teams will also have some hot streaks and we'll have dry spells.
I have some concern with the Met division, PIT and WAS seem like they've reached the twilight of their core, though their pride should give them a boost eventually. Flyers and CBJ should be near the bottom as well.
Then BUF and OTT looking like they yet again haven't got their sh*t together but season's still young.

 

[Habitant#1]

This is why tanking teams need to ensure their goalies are absolute trash. Habs are getting robbed of their top-5 pick.

If the Habs come out of the tanking years with just Slaf, Reinbacher and a 2024 9-15th pick then the rebuild is DOA.

It's not sustainable, we were above .500 when Monahan went down and finished bottom 5.

Just chill boys.

I don't know that last season can be considered a successful tank season. Habs missed out on a first line centre because the tank wasn't aggressive enough.

 

[BLONG7]

This is why tanking teams need to ensure their goalies are absolute trash. Habs are getting robbed of their top-5 pick.

If the Habs come out of the tanking years with just Slaf, Reinbacher and a 2024 9-15th pick then the rebuild is DOA.


I don't know that last season can be considered a successful tank season. Habs missed out on a first line centre because the tank wasn't aggressive enough.

Based more on timing................the rebuild may have never had a real chance.................that went out the door during the Rinse and Repeat Era....

 

[The Great Weal]

Hawks getting both Bedard and Celebrini would be like giving them a brand new version of Kane and Toews again.

 

[morhilane]

Hawks getting both Bedard and Celebrini would be like giving them a brand new version of Kane and Toews again.

Just as planned!

 

[WeThreeKings]

This is why tanking teams need to ensure their goalies are absolute trash. Habs are getting robbed of their top-5 pick.

If the Habs come out of the tanking years with just Slaf, Reinbacher and a 2024 9-15th pick then the rebuild is DOA.


I don't know that last season can be considered a successful tank season. Habs missed out on a first line centre because the tank wasn't aggressive enough.

They finished 5th overall. That's a pretty solid pick for being over .500 a quarter of the way in.

 

[Takeru]

This is why tanking teams need to ensure their goalies are absolute trash. Habs are getting robbed of their top-5 pick.

If the Habs come out of the tanking years with just Slaf, Reinbacher and a 2024 9-15th pick then the rebuild is DOA.


I don't know that last season can be considered a successful tank season. Habs missed out on a first line centre because the tank wasn't aggressive enough.

That's hindsight though. No one penciled our goaltending duo as anything other than essentially bottom of the league tier before season started. Heck, there was even a thread where Allen was labeled as Hughes worst move or something like that. He's currently posting his highest SV% ever, his best since his STL days... but keep in mind it's over a whopping 4 games sample size.

Things will average out eventually, season's barely even started.We'll revisit this in JAN

PS: We're also seeing our young D making improvements, which is bound to help goaltending and push us a bit higher. It's essentially inevitable and should be viewed positively, unless we want to remain trash forever.

 

[First Line]

Problem with tanking is we look more like the Rangers (Laf/Kakko) than the devils (hughes/hischier/hughes) when we pick high. Could change but it's not looking good so far. Hischier is not a great first overall but i remember it was either him or Nolan Patrick for first overall and they dodged a bullet.

There’s no guarantee with a rebuild but at least its not the same formula as the last 30 years. Something that might work is better than something we know doesn’t.

 

[First Line]

If we beat Vegas tonight, shut this thread down!

Shut this thread down!

we didn’t win

 

[Hins77]

It's the annual october-cup overachieving performance, business as usual to me.
Nice to see improvement from our young guys but the big guns from the Atlantic will get their groove sooner or later and should push us out of WC.
Other teams will also have some hot streaks and we'll have dry spells.
I have some concern with the Met division, PIT and WAS seem like they've reached the twilight of their core, though their pride should give them a boost eventually. Flyers and CBJ should be near the bottom as well.
Then BUF and OTT looking like they yet again haven't got their sh*t together but season's still young.

Ottawa and Buffalo should understand that they need a better mix of young players and veterents. They seems to make their young player unmovable. Imo, they need some veterents to suround their guys. Exemple, buffalo should trade a guy like quinn, peterka for a veterent if they want to make step forward. But sometimes, those gm are too much greedy

 

[WeThreeKings]

Ottawa and Buffalo should understand that they need a better mix of young players and veterents. They seems to make their young player unmovable. Imo, they need some veterents to suround their guys. Exemple, buffalo should trade a guy like quinn, peterka for a veterent if they want to make step forward. But sometimes, those gm are too much greedy

Buffalo should have made a move last year, they could have easily made the playoffs with a little bit of help. They didn't, they missed and they are bringing their loser energy into another season.

 

[SwiftyHab]

we didn’t win

True but

 

[Takeru]

Ottawa and Buffalo should understand that they need a better mix of young players and veterents. They seems to make their young player unmovable. Imo, they need some veterents to suround their guys. Exemple, buffalo should trade a guy like quinn, peterka for a veterent if they want to make step forward. But sometimes, those gm are too much greedy

Fair point. You need everything to click together at a given point in time, something Vegas understood very well and ironically got two of their best players from those very two teams (though there were other considerations for why those trades were made on BUF/OTT side).

I assume our mgmt is aware of this with how they're targeting young players/prospects from a similar age. I hope when timing is right they won't shy away from expending some of our future to land the big fish that will get us to the next step. Constantly holding on to your whole marble collection is how you stay in perpetual rebuild with young guys souring on the team's future as you wait until the next wave of prospects gets there.

 

[WeThreeKings]

True but


View attachment 760831

4 and 6th will be 24th and 26th by the end of the year.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Except much better than Toews and Kane.

Celebrini looks better than Toews at the same age by quite a bit.
Bedard looks more generational than Kane.



I agree, as much as I think we are missing a guy like Celebrini to complete the rebuild, I see a path where we draft 2 times in the top 15 to achieve the same outcome.

Ie. if we are draft 6-10, I think we have to trade our way back in the top 16.

And you never know with a lottery.. would be great to win one this year or next year, but even if we don't.. our best players right now, aside from Dach, were drafted with picks outside of the top 10 and not in a play-off spot.

 

[Hins77]

Fair point. You need everything to click together at a given point in time, something Vegas understood very well and ironically got two of their best players from those very two teams (though there were other considerations for why those trades were made on BUF/OTT side).

I assume our mgmt is aware of this with how they're targeting young players/prospects from a similar age. I hope when timing is right they won't shy away from expending some of our future to land the big fish that will get us to the next step. Constantly holding on to your whole marble collection is how you stay in perpetual rebuild with young guys souring on the team's future as you wait until the next wave of prospects gets there.

This is exactly how I see it too. Buffalo don’t really know what they have in their hands. Sometimes to have a guy like Monahan is helping cause you know what you have. This is why Colorado traded us Newhook to make place for Johansen. They have no time to loose on a young guy. Even if Newhook become a really good player in the future. To be good today have a price and Ottawa/Buffalo don’t want to hear that.

 

[Ezpz]

Ottawa and Buffalo should understand that they need a better mix of young players and veterents. They seems to make their young player unmovable. Imo, they need some veterents to suround their guys. Exemple, buffalo should trade a guy like quinn, peterka for a veterent if they want to make step forward. But sometimes, those gm are too much greedy

Buffalo has a lot of vets. Thompson is 26 he's not a fresh prospect or anything. Skinner is 31. Tuch is 27. Okposo is 35. Even on the backend they aren't that young. The issue is their young guys aren't good enough yet. Thompson seems like he's going to be closer to the 70-point guy than the near-100 point guy. They're one of the worst teams in the league up the middle on faceoffs so what they really need is a better 2C/3C. Guys who hit 40-45% on faceoffs should be playing wing. They're losing possession off of every whistle on a team built for puck possession.

 

[Hins77]

Buffalo has a lot of vets. Thompson is 26 he's not a fresh prospect or anything. Skinner is 31. Tuch is 27. Okposo is 35. Even on the backend they aren't that young. The issue is their young guys aren't good enough yet. Thompson seems like he's going to be closer to the 70-point guy than the near-100 point guy. They're one of the worst teams in the league up the middle on faceoffs so what they really need is a better 2C/3C. Guys who hit 40-45% on faceoffs should be playing wing. They're losing possession off of every whistle on a team built for puck possession.

My point is, they have so many asset and they don’t seem to sell somes to get better player now. Even if those guy are older than their youngs player

 

[salbutera]

My point is, they have so many asset and they don’t seem to sell somes to get better player now. Even if those guy are older than their youngs player

Jordan Greenway was a smart low key pickup last deadline - would look good next to Suzuki / Caufield

 

[bsl]

...


and then the entire stack will get injured.


I wanted to fire him since last season... I think now that Caufield has been ressuracted, MSL's served his purpose and I don't feel like he has anything else to offer. The team is as disorganized as they come.

NHL coaches are mostly useless. Might as well keep him.

Next year should be fun. 2024 top 3 pick, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Roy, Dach and a free agent will all be added to the roster. And that's without accounting for any trades Hughes will make.

I no longer consider dach in future plans. Nor should Hugo. If he can play next year great. A bonus. Otherwise plan assuming he is done.

 

[WeThreeKings]

our players like you mentionned picked outside the top 15 are miles from being elite 1st line players. All 2nd line players. Guhle and Reinbacher are the only top line players at their position for now. This team needs a Kane/Toews combo to play with slaf in the future

C'mon now.. Suzuki and Caufield aren't 2nd line players around the league.

 

[SwiftyHab]

4 and 6th will be 24th and 26th by the end of the year.

OK. Ill go with your theory today but tell me at what point would you change that forecast?