HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[CHwest]

I'm confident if Habs decide to draft Lindstrom, it is because they are comfortable with the medical reports.

I really hope they can get their own dr's look at him and run their own tests before the draft.

It's easy.
Harris, Kidney and a 2nd should do the trick.

I don't think so.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Ok, but there's a difference between beyond fine and elite. If the next Fox/Hughes/Makar is on the board, you don't want to pass on the player for a really good second line winger.

Well there isn't one or they'd be solidly in the 2 spot and pushing Celebrini for 1 all year. No one thinks any of the D in this draft are sure fire 1s.

 

[26Mats]

Well there isn't one or they'd be solidly in the 2 spot and pushing Celebrini for 1 all year. No one thinks any of the D in this draft are sure fire 1s.

It's not about what others think it's about what our scouts think. Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th overall. Makar didn't go top 3. Kobe Bryant went 13th overall and Jerry West thought he was by far the best player in the draft.

Those are rare examples. But it's not about what usually happens. It's about what our scouts see in the particular players in this particular draft.

 

[bsl]

Looking at that latest Sportsnet draft ranking they have 6 dmen in their top 8.

If the Habs had taken Leonard or another forward @ 5 last season in that top heavy forward draft they would've had some great dmen options available to them @ 5 (if they stay there after lottery) in this top heavy dmen draft this year it looks like.

Dmen take a while to develop. Ok with a dman last year.

 

[HuGort]

The thing is, it may take a lot move up in the draft. All teams know where the drop off is and won't want to trade back from the drop off unlessxwell compensated.


Right now, Barron, Harris, and Struble may all project to be bottom pairing dmen in teams' perspective. I'm not sure they would want to drop out of the range they see as the sweet spot for a future bottom pair dman or two.

Habs could hit a homerun in this draft. They have a lot of pieces in place already.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's not about what others think it's about what our scouts think. Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th overall. Makar didn't go top 3. Kobe Bryant went 13th overall and Jerry West thought he was by far the best player in the draft.

Those are rare examples. But it's not about what usually happens. It's about what our scouts see in the particular players in this particular draft.

Those teams didn't know those players would become what they became. It's about what they think at the time of the draft, not what happens after it.

If there was conviction anywhere in the NHL that these defenseman are that special, they'd be a lock at 2.

They're taking a forward. Whether or not they'll trade down to do it and use those other assets to move up with another pick or go after another Newhook. We will see.

It'd have to be something ludicrous like Levshunov there at 5 and there's just no way 3 players besides Celebrini are going ahead of Levshunov.

 

[26Mats]

Those teams didn't know those players would become what they became. It's about what they think at the time of the draft, not what happens after it.

If there was conviction anywhere in the NHL that these defenseman are that special, they'd be a lock at 2.

They're taking a forward. Whether or not they'll trade down to do it and use those other assets to move up with another pick or go after another Newhook. We will see.

It'd have to be something ludicrous like Levshunov there at 5 and there's just no way 3 players besides Celebrini are going ahead of Levshunov.

Can't agree with that statement bolded.

But yes, I see us taking a forward.

 

[McGees]

I don't think so.

It's a joke - for the same people that made every trade offer Ryder, Halak and a 2nd...It is now Harris, Kidney and a 2nd

 

[Rockomax]

All that fretting to finish 5th, i'm going to laugh my ass off if we end up 6th in the lottery and get passed by one of the teams behind us lol

I mean, the whole point was to draft as high as possible. Better to drop at 6 than to drop at 7

 

[417]

I mean, the whole point was to draft as high as possible. Better to drop at 6 than to drop at 7

I thought the whole point was to draft the best player possible

 

[Schooner Guy]

Those teams didn't know those players would become what they became. It's about what they think at the time of the draft, not what happens after it.

If there was conviction anywhere in the NHL that these defenseman are that special, they'd be a lock at 2.

They're taking a forward. Whether or not they'll trade down to do it and use those other assets to move up with another pick or go after another Newhook. We will see.

It'd have to be something ludicrous like Levshunov there at 5 and there's just no way 3 players besides Celebrini are going ahead of Levshunov.

Levshunov could be there at #5. There are a lot of questions about his hockey IQ and his defensive game.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Levshunov could be there at #5. There are a lot of questions about his hockey IQ and his defensive game.

He won't be there at 5, he's the clear best RD in the draft and there are too many teams picking ahead of us that need defenseman, specifically right shot defenseman.

He's an athletic specimen who produced very well in the NCAA as a draft eligible and has tons of runway left as he's a relative newbie to hockey.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I thought the whole point was to draft the best player possible

And that requires the best draft pick possible

 

[Rockomax]

I thought the whole point was to draft the best player possible

Which is why you want to draft as high as possible, no?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

He won't be there at 5, he's the clear best RD in the draft and there are too many teams picking ahead of us that need defenseman, specifically right shot defenseman.

He's an athletic specimen who produced very well in the NCAA as a draft eligible and has tons of runway left as he's a relative newbie to hockey.

I presume you are referring to the overall package because Parekh appears to be more dangerous offensively.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I presume you are referring to the overall package because Parekh appears to be more dangerous offensively.

Yes, overall, which is what teams picking high up tend to look for. Levshunov has the size and build, plus temperament to play physical and therefore defend at a level teams want in their defenseman.

Parekh has massive questions in his own end. Levshunov isn't without defensive questions but his athletic profile still has a higher defensive baseline.

 

[Schooner Guy]

He won't be there at 5, he's the clear best RD in the draft and there are too many teams picking ahead of us that need defenseman, specifically right shot defenseman.

He's an athletic specimen who produced very well in the NCAA as a draft eligible and has tons of runway left as he's a relative newbie to hockey.

I hope he does go top 4 and I will pity the fanbase of the team who takes him. I'm aware of the great skillset but I'm also aware that he's all tools but no toolbox. I'd take Parekh over him in a heartbeat as Parekh at least has half a brain and showed improvement throughout the season in his defensive game as well as the desire to improve that side of his game.

 

[417]

And that requires the best draft pick possible

Really? explain picking Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk then?

Which is why you want to draft as high as possible, no?

Even more important than drafting as high as possible, is making sure your scouting and selecting the right player.

I don't know why the obvious has to be stated here, but a higher pick, does NOT guarantee a better player.

 

[HuGort]

No team is going to trade a top ten pick for a 25th pick. Unless unreal package. And Habs can’t afford to trade very good prospects with some experience for a number 10 pick. And this never happens anyway.

There's a chance, if a left shot defense man Is best player at 5. Hughes said he's open to trading down couple notches. Which like you say would bring huge asset. This asset Would be included to move up.

 

[DiglettDangles]

There's a chance, if a left shot defense man Is best player at 5. Hughes said he's open to trading down couple notches. Which like you say would bring huge asset. This asset Would be included to move up.

I also heard that (real quote) but I don't really believe in that scenario tbh.
Below us are:
ARI - Will they really pay us something worthwhile if they know we want a fwd and they want a LD, and they are the very next pick?
OTT - We won't want to be dunked on by OTT for a decade, for giving a better pick to a direct competitor.
SEA - They're lean on other interesting picks to move up. They do have a few recent prospects picked 30-45 that are turning heads but if you want to flip em to a team in the 15-20 range you need to know their preference and it gets complex.
CGY - If they move up it's likely to snag Iginla, and that doesn't help your case. I don't think they need to move up to grab Yakemchuk if we're assuming they love their local talent.
NJD - We're already at 10 and I think that's too big of a drop for MTL to consider at this point. But for the sake of it, they're also lean on picks and I'm not a fan of Holtz or the rest of their prospect pool.
BUF - Again, pretty big drop, and they don't need an LD. Gotta wonder if they'd put a Kulich on the table tho.

Add to that, that you basically have to make both trades concurrently (trade down to get asset, 27OA + said asset for 15-20OA) while the team is on the clock (because you only consider a trade down if your forward targets are officially gone)... unlikely.

 

[Runner77]

Really? explain picking Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk then?

Man, it’s not like you to serve a fastball right in the middle of the plate. ;-)

More to the point, current management will make their own mistakes but sometimes having an earlier pick by only one slot can make a world of difference (we missed out on Svechnikov and Will Smith by one draft slot and in Smith’s case, Hughes reportedly made multiple attempts to get into that top 4 stratosphere last year), so that one increment away turned out to be huge.

 

[LaP]

Man, it’s not like you to serve a fastball right in the middle of the plate. ;-)

More to the point, current management will make their own mistakes but sometimes having an earlier pick by only one slot can make a world of difference (we missed out on Svechnikov and Will Smith by one draft slot and Hughes reportedly made multiple attempts to get into that top 4 stratosphere last year), so that one increment away turned out to be huge.

Doing a mistakea is not the problem. Not being able to explain the mistake is a problem though. For example Sergachev for Drouin was a mistake. But at least it's a mistake i can explain and understand (providing we would have signed Markov for 2 years). We needed a center. Apparently MB was not able top acquire one. He gambled on Drouin who was still young and a 3rd overall pick and lost. The unexplainable mistake here was not signing Markov and trading his replacement not really trading for Drouin.

But JK is a baffling mistake. We were in a win now position. Win now as in right f***** now not in 5 years. Both Price and Weber were getting close to the mid 30ies wall most players hit. I would have understand the JK pick in the context of a rebuild. But in the context where you want to win now the most NHL ready prospect was clearly BK and it's not revisionist it was clear on draft day. So you either go for the NHL ready prospect who project as a 30 goals and 60 points winger and wont take 5 years to reach it or you trade the pick for a center. Drafting a not unanimous project was stupid imo.

 

[themilosh]

Well there isn't one or they'd be solidly in the 2 spot and pushing Celebrini for 1 all year. No one thinks any of the D in this draft are sure fire 1s.

I think what he was implying was that after Cellibrini, all the forwards are "2nd tier" so if given the choice would you take a "1st pairing" RHD or a 2nd line F?

Imo, I would take a chance on Lindstrom as he has all the tangibles we need in top 6, and he can play both C/W.. but if he is off the board at ~5, the wise choice is to take a RHD like Parekh/Levshunov, which would an incredible addition to our young D corps, possibly making us one of the best teams on D for a decade+

When you have a strong D, that can move the puck and contribute in offense; everything else improves as a result: G and F.

Hugo would then have to use all our available expendable assets to acquire a top 6C via trade or FA in the next 2 years to complete the rebuild.

 

[LaP]

I think what he was implying was that after Cellibrini, all the forwards are "2nd tier" so if given the choice would you take a "1st pairing" RHD or a 2nd line F?

Imo, I would take a chance on Lindstrom as he has all the tangibles we need in top 6, and he can play both C/W.. but if he is off the board at ~5, the wise choice is to take a RHD like Parekh/Levshunov, which would an incredible addition to our young D corps, possibly making us one of the best teams on D for a decade+

When you have a strong D, that can move the puck and contribute in offense; everything else improves as a result: G and F.

Hugo would then have to use all our available expendable assets to acquire a top 6C via trade or FA in the next 2 years to complete the rebuild.

I'm sorry but calling the forwards after Celibrini 2nd line forwards is very wrong. It's just that Celibrini is very very good he's an above average 1st overall pick. There's a couple of very good dmen though but that doesn't mean the forwards are not 1st line potential.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Really? explain picking Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk then?


Even more important than drafting as high as possible, is making sure your scouting and selecting the right player.

I don't know why the obvious has to be stated here, but a higher pick, does NOT guarantee a better player.

Because it is crap. KK - Tkachuk is irrelevant. Dumbo made that pick. The point is that if you thrust the management team then the higher the pick the better.