HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Sunfyre]

Would be great if we trade up. It's easier to trade up from 23 than 27.

But if we want to trade up, given who will be on the board, why would other teams want to trade down, given who will be off the board?

The Penguins 14th overall pick, which belongs to the Sharks, could be a target. Would they be interested in adding to their young upcoming dcore the likes of Barron, Struble, and/or Harris as part of a package to move up?

How much trade value do Engstrom and Bogdan have? And, Farrell, Mesar, Heineman, Ylonen, or RHP? Primeau?

Are one of Beck or Kapanen worth sacrificing?

Their cupboard is kind of sparse. But are those the kind of players they want to fill it with?
For sure it will be interesting to see what HuGo

I think they are going to trade up with it this year.

Did I missed something? Where did you hear that? Would be the first time HuGo does something like that. All I hear is to make the next step, to progress. Sounds to me like adding established players and not magic beans

 

[WeThreeKings]

Trade up targets would be:

Minnesota - they could use more pick ammunition to build their team.
Washington - This is a team with a bare cupboard and not a lot of picks.
Islanders - Similar to Washington

 

[Nicko999]

Trade up targets would be:

Minnesota - they could use more pick ammunition to build their team.
Washington - This is a team with a bare cupboard and not a lot of picks.
Islanders - Similar to Washington

Purely hypothetical scenario but let’s say we pick 5th. All our target forwards are gone. Rather than pick BPA which is a D, would you trade the pick to Washington for Ryan Leonard?

 

[LaP]

Trade up targets would be:

Minnesota - they could use more pick ammunition to build their team.
Washington - This is a team with a bare cupboard and not a lot of picks.
Islanders - Similar to Washington

I'd be tempted to trade winnipeg's 1st 2024 along with Calgary's / Florida's first 2025 to move the winnipeg pick up this year. The player drafted this year will be one year closer to help than the guy drafted next year. I would not do that to move a mere 5 spots up obviously.

 

[salbutera]

Trade up targets would be:

Minnesota - they could use more pick ammunition to build their team.
Washington - This is a team with a bare cupboard and not a lot of picks.
Islanders - Similar to Washington

I would really like to see the Isles get bounced quickly in round 1, their 18OA pick will then likely be made available - Uncle Lou‘s future is now

Caps are retooling on the fly and won’t trade their pick - they’ve brought in quite a few young players last couple of seasons

 

[Kosseca]

Purely hypothetical scenario but let’s say we pick 5th. All our target forwards are gone. Rather than pick BPA which is a D, would you trade the pick to Washington for Ryan Leonard?

I dont see WSH trading leonard. would make no sense for them.

 

[Leto]

I'd be tempted to trade winnipeg's 1st 2024 along with Calgary's / Florida's first 2025 to move the winnipeg pick up this year. The player drafted this year will be one year closer to help than the guy drafted next year. I would not do that to move a mere 5 spots up obviously.

We also have Colorado's 2nd rounder in 2024 and Pittsburgh's 2nd rounder in 2025. I am cool with using part of that stock pile.

 

[Sunfyre]

Purely hypothetical scenario but let’s say we pick 5th. All our target forwards are gone. Rather than pick BPA which is a D, would you trade the pick to Washington for Ryan Leonard?

The last time only forwards got drafted in the top 5 was in 2001. Very unlikely scenario. Should we draft 5th there must be a good one on the board

 

[salbutera]

Aside from Celebrini @ 1OA, I only expect Ds to be drafted w picks 2-4

Right now Dman have a lot more value in the league than F - unless they are projected as guaranteed 1st liners which only Celebrini is with this cuvée

 

[WeThreeKings]

The last time only forwards got drafted in the top 5 was in 2001. Very unlikely scenario. Should we draft 5th there must be a good one on the board

People who are trying to invent scenarios where there aren't at 2/3 defenseman gone before we pick have simply not looked at the teams picking ahead of us and want to simply be doomers.

 

[LaP]

People who are trying to invent scenarios where there aren't at 2/3 defenseman gone before we pick have simply not looked at the teams picking ahead of us and want to simply be doomers.

Exactly. Two dmen drafted in the top 5 will be the minimum but it's likely going to be 3. It's very possible that if we draft 5th that all forwards except Celebrini wil be avalaible for us.

I like KH strat. We got the best dman last year and likely the 2nd or 3rd best forward this year.

 

[bsl]

Really? explain picking Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk then?


Even more important than drafting as high as possible, is making sure your scouting and selecting the right player.

I don't know why the obvious has to be stated here, but a higher pick, does NOT guarantee a better player.

Your logic is just wrong. Give up.

 

[salbutera]

And that requires the best draft pick possible

NJD w 1OA or Flyers w 2OA in 2017 had the “best draft picks possible” neither drafted anywhere near the best player available… happens over 80% of drafts

 

[LaP]

Really? explain picking Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk then?


Even more important than drafting as high as possible, is making sure your scouting and selecting the right player.

I don't know why the obvious has to be stated here, but a higher pick, does NOT guarantee a better player.

The problem with your logic is that a good scouting team will benefit from having a higher pick. Obviously it's important to have a good scouting team i don't remember someone saying otherwise.

You look at past picks and you are like a higher pick doesn't matter we took JK and AG. But that was the result of a bad management. Had the CH drafted where Nashville drafted instead of 3rd overall they would not have likely drafted a bust too instead of Forsberg.

A good drafting team is implied when we talk about the draft. And a good drafting team will 100% benefit from drafting higher. It's not bullet proof nothing really is when it comes to the draft.

You will never go anywhere without good management anyone knows that but it doesn't mean that a strategy is not right because bad management failed at it.

 

[salbutera]

The problem with your logic is that a good scouting team will benefit from having a higher pick. Obviously it's important to have a good scouting team i don't remember someone saying otherwise.

You look at past picks and you are like a higher pick doesn't matter we took JK and AG. But that was the result of a bad management. Had the CH drafted where Nashville drafted instead of 3rd overall they would not have likely drafted a bust too instead of Forsberg.

A good drafting team is implied when we talk about the draft. And a good drafting team will 100% benefit from drafting higher. It's not bullet proof nothing really is when it comes to the draft.

NJD have a good scouting team yet they didn’t end up w a top-5 best player from 2017 draft despite 1OA and other good position picks

“A good scouting team” isn’t needed to pick
Crosby, McDavid, Matthews, Bedard.. just lottery luck which Buf didn’t have in 2015 despite doing everything humanly possible to “tank hard”

 

[le_sean]

NJD have a good scouting team yet they didn’t end up w a top-5 best player from 2017 draft despite 1OA and other good position picks

How is Hischier not a Top 5 pick of that draft? He’s 2nd in points, great defensively and their captain.

 

[salbutera]

How is Hischier not a Top 5 pick of that draft? He’s 2nd in points, great defensively and their captain.

Petersson, Makar, Heiskanen, Thomas, Robertson are all far superior hockey players.

Hischier is not a playoff performer - he wilts

 

[Andrei79]

How is Hischier not a Top 5 pick of that draft? He’s 2nd in points, great defensively and their captain.

5th spot is crowded with Hischier, Necas, Suzuki and Thomas.

I have a tough time seeing him over any of Pettersson, Heiskanen, Makar and Robertson at the moment.

 

[le_sean]

Petersson, Makar, Heiskanen, Thomas, Robertson are all far superior hockey players

Robert Thomas is not “far superior”

 

[LaP]

NJD have a good scouting team yet they didn’t end up w a top-5 best player from 2017 draft despite 1OA and other good position picks

“A good scouting team” isn’t needed to pick
Crosby, McDavid, Matthews, Bedard..

Like i said it's not bullet proof. You have to look at the draft in the aggragate. If you look at singular picks you're just looking at anecdotes. If you draft a bust in the first round and Jason Robertson in the 2nd round you did well. If you draft a single Jason Robertson every year no matter where you drafted him you're very good.

I really don't undertsand why some posters want to push the narrative that drafting high is useless. It's well established that the higher you draft the better the probability to get a good player. In the aggrate drafting top 5 in all rounds is way better than drafting 20th in all round. A 37th picks is a much much much much much much better pick than a 52nd pick.

People look at drafting high from the perspective of the 1st round only but it's wrong. Drafting high in the 2nd and 3rd rounds also has a non insignificant value.

 

[salbutera]

Robert Thomas is not “far superior”

Thomas doesn’t default to perimeter play in the playoffs, he actually plays the game of hockey

 

[le_sean]

Thomas doesn’t default to perimeter play in the playoffs, he actually plays the game of hockey

Yeah his 18 points in 45 playoff games is really the deciding factor here

 

[LaP]

Are we at the point of saying that Robert Thomas is a much better player than Hischier to push a mathematically provable wrong narrative?

okay i'm out of this conversation.

 

[bsl]

Honestly, a relegation league with the AHL another step down would be preferable.

I'm a broken alarm but I will ring it again 'on average your team will now win 1 Cup every 32+ years.' STOP using a Cup win as your defining idea of success unless you're ready for potentially decades of disappointment.

I agree in concept. But some teams have inherent advantages. Rangers. Good weather teams. History. Revenue. At a guess I’d say a cup or two in a row every 20 years should be expected from these teams. Including Habs. In that respect Habs have been a massive fail going on 10 years.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Can we discuss just how f***ing great it feels to suck with integrity?

Youngsters are getting better and you'll see the building blocks of nearby future ascending, while there's another big potential pick in the cupboard. Imagine loading cap space with middle of the pack shit like Hoffman and hoping there's a small chance for playoffs.

And although I can't stand them, at the end of the season you gotta say tank you to Josh Anderson and rest of the notorious cap-cloggers. Tank you for helping us to beat the marginals and picking (probably) 5th instead of 10th.