HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Captain Mountain]

I mean, it might be because we had another rash of injuries...but generally speaking, there should be some progress up the stands if our core guys continue to take steps forward.

Otherwise, you end up like the Sens or Sabres. They always think the draft is going to fix everything, but clearly the problems with those organizations never progressing are much deeper.

Bottoming out doesn't fix anything on its own.

I don't think Montreal has ever tanked period, so no argument from me there.

Both teams have made pushes to build outside of the draft. Ottawa in particular is a cautionary tail about when you push too early. They've got a depleted prospect pool and a full cap sheet because they went for it in free agency and trades.

My point is more that points isn't the only measure of how a rebuild is going. I don't disagree it would be disappointing if they still finish bottom 5 assuming the play justifies that and injuries aren't a big reason, but they also finished with 8 more points this season and finished in the same spot as last season.

If they finish bottom 5 next season because Montembault and Primeau get injured/implode and they see massive growth from all the young skaters, I'd be pretty ok with that. Points only become important when judging a season when the primary goal is to win a cup. That's not realistic for the Habs right now.

 

[Justin11]

If he is available when the Habs pick he will be awfully difficult to pass up. 27 goals in 32 games. 6'4 215. How is his skating?

Personally I like his skating, it's far from elite but good enough. TBH, It's something that he will have work on.

 

[Colezuki]

Are we at 5? 6? 7?

Current Odds

1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8.5%	8.6%	0.3%	0	24.5%	44.0%	14.2%

 

[417]

Both teams have made pushes to build outside of the draft. Ottawa in particular is a cautionary tail about when you push too early. They've got a depleted prospect pool and a full cap sheet because they went for it in free agency and trades.

I was never really sold on their prospects and yes, they did try to build outside of the draft, the issue was less about doing it early IMO, but how they went about doing it. Pierre Dorion was just a terrible GM, whose scouting acumen was overrated and his management abilities completely overstated. He was way over his head. The team never showed any progress to point of making improvements outside the draft, being the next step.

My point is more that points isn't the only measure of how a rebuild is going. I don't disagree it would be disappointing if they still finish bottom 5 assuming the play justifies that and injuries aren't a big reason, but they also finished with 8 more points this season and finished in the same spot as last season.

If they finish bottom 5 next season because Montembault and Primeau get injured/implode and they see massive growth from all the young skaters, I'd be pretty ok with that. Points only become important when judging a season when the primary goal is to win a cup. That's not realistic for the Habs right now.

Yes, I was suggesting that points without context, is the only indicator of progress...like you said, we finished in the same spot as last season, but from my perspective, there progress compared to last year is clear. Well at least to me.

I'd like to see this team take the next step and start challenging for the playoffs, I don't want to see them or management artificially "tank" for another lottery pick thinking that one day they'll just snap their fingers and turn into contenders (I don't think any team really does that).

But IMO, another year of progress from Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Newhook, Dach (health), Guhle and the other young Ds, should start to yield some improved results, whether or not they manifest themselves into points in the standings is another story as evidenced by this year.

 

[Saundies]

Like many have said here, I think if we finish 5 or below next year then there were some catastrophic injuries to cause that. The amount of OT/SO/One goal games we were on the wrong side of this year, if even half of those go our way we're closer to the middle of the pack.

For D, we're still young. They'll be decisions to be made but I expect at least 1-2 rotating spots for rookies/young guys next year. Matheson won't have the same offensive numbers probably but hopefully he improves even a modicum defensively.

Forwards, you have to think Cole and Slaf take another step or maintain their production. Dach either stays healthy or we eliminate him completely from the equation and Newhook takes another step. I'm expecting us to grab a guy or two that can help and players like RHP and Pez will be replaced by Roy/Potentially our 1st rounder depending on their readiness.

I'm not a huge Monty-Primeau tandem truther to be honest, but Monty in particular has shown that he can play to a #1 level at some points.

TL;DR - I expect us to be in the hunt for a wildcard next year based on natural progression. I don't think we're going to push to do that or be that team, I think it will just happen naturally.

 

[sheed36]

Looking at that latest Sportsnet draft ranking they have 6 dmen in their top 8.

If the Habs had taken Leonard or another forward @ 5 last season in that top heavy forward draft they would've had some great dmen options available to them @ 5 (if they stay there after lottery) in this top heavy dmen draft this year it looks like.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Looking at that latest Sportsnet draft ranking they have 6 dmen in their top 8.

If the Habs had taken Leonard or another forward @ 5 last season in that top heavy forward draft they would've had some great dmen options available to them @ 5 (if they stay there after lottery) in this top heavy dmen draft this year it looks like.

None of them are right handed and have the defensive game that Reinbacher does. The right handed guys in the top of this draft are offensive guys, which is not what our defense is missing.

 

[26Mats]

None of them are right handed and have the defensive game that Reinbacher does. The right handed guys in the top of this draft are offensive guys, which is not what our defense is missing.

IMO, we could use a real top offensive guy to take over for Matheson.

I like having a second offensive guy in addition to Hutson. So if we want a Matheson replacement in 5 years, a top notch offensive dman would be excellent to have. If it's an RD, all the better.

Mathson - Guhle
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Mailoux
Struble/Engstrom

 

[sheed36]

None of them are right handed and have the defensive game that Reinbacher does. The right handed guys in the top of this draft are offensive guys, which is not what our defense is missing.

Fair point. That's still a lot of dmen in their top 8 which is good for the Habs I guess if they're looking at taking a forward this year which seems to be the case.

 

[McGees]

Current Odds

1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8.5%	8.6%	0.3%	0	24.5%	44.0%	14.2%

how do we have a chance at 3rd again?

 

[WeThreeKings]

IMO, we could use a real top offensive guy to take over for Matheson.

I like having a second offensive guy in addition to Hutson. So if we want a Matheson replacement in 5 years, a top notch offensive dman would be excellent to have. If it's an RD, all the better.

Mathson - Guhle
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Mailoux
Struble/Engstrom

They'll be beyond fine with Hutson, Mailloux and Engstrom to push offense.

 

[morhilane]

Looking at that latest Sportsnet draft ranking they have 6 dmen in their top 8.

If the Habs had taken Leonard or another forward @ 5 last season in that top heavy forward draft they would've had some great dmen options available to them @ 5 (if they stay there after lottery) in this top heavy dmen draft this year it looks like.

You never draft based on what it might looks like next year. Lots of things happens, kids stop developing, injuries, etc.

This year draft wasn't that dmen top heavy back in September too. They just keep on raising into the top 10.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

None of them are right handed and have the defensive game that Reinbacher does. The right handed guys in the top of this draft are offensive guys, which is not what our defense is missing.

And since a lot of d will likley go before Habs pick they wll likely get a forward as good or better than Leonard.

 

[26Mats]

They'll be beyond fine with Hutson, Mailloux and Engstrom to push offense.

Ok, but there's a difference between beyond fine and elite. If the next Fox/Hughes/Makar is on the board, you don't want to pass on the player for a really good second line winger.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

how do we have a chance at 3rd again?

Maybe if 12 wins the first and the Habs win the 2nd?

 

[KevSkillz4]

Looking at that latest Sportsnet draft ranking they have 6 dmen in their top 8.

If the Habs had taken Leonard or another forward @ 5 last season in that top heavy forward draft they would've had some great dmen options available to them @ 5 (if they stay there after lottery) in this top heavy dmen draft this year it looks like.

I wanted Michkov, Leonard or Michkov, but today, I would easily take Reinbacher ahead of any D in this draft class. No ones have the two-way ability of him. Only Dickinson. But with what I see from Reinbacher in AHL, he have the potential to become to best D in 2024 class.

 

[LaP]

how do we have a chance at 3rd again?

Teams below 10 can win the lottery but can't jump more than 10 positions. If the team 12th wins the 1st lottery then they will draft 2nd. If we win the 2nd lottery at tme same time then we will draft behind them at 3rd. You have more chances to be struck by lightning probably.

As i say every year when people start panicking and be like "we will draft 7th the sky is falling and the earth is flat" we will more than likely draft 1st, 2nd, 5th or 6th. We actually have more chances to draft 1st or 2nd than 7th. It's very rare for two teams below 5th to win both lottery picks.

The probably to get a star player in the first half of the 2nd round is actually about the same as we have to draft 7th.

 

[bsl]

No need to FEAR. The Script is already out for the draft.

1st pick : Chicago to get Celebrini and recreate a dynamic duo (Kane & Toews) aka (Bedard & Celebrini).

2nd pick : Arizona/Utah to create a hype around the relocation.

3rd pick : Pittsburgh with a 4.2% chance to get the 3rd pick is the perfect way to assure people that the draft isn't rigged and that luck is actually involved.

Uh not possible and draft lottery is not rigged. Stupid post.

 

[salbutera]

IMO, we could use a real top offensive guy to take over for Matheson.

I like having a second offensive guy in addition to Hutson. So if we want a Matheson replacement in 5 years, a top notch offensive dman would be excellent to have. If it's an RD, all the better.

Mathson - Guhle
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Mailoux
Struble/Engstrom

Have one already….his name is Hutson.

Next seasons Habs PP will be top-10

 

[LaP]

No need to FEAR. The Script is already out for the draft.

1st pick : Chicago to get Celebrini and recreate a dynamic duo (Kane & Toews) aka (Bedard & Celebrini).

2nd pick : Arizona/Utah to create a hype around the relocation.

3rd pick : Pittsburgh with a 4.2% chance to get the 3rd pick is the perfect way to assure people that the draft isn't rigged and that luck is actually involved.

That actually can't happen since that pick can't be 3rd unless it wins the 1st pick lottery.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Uh not possible and draft lottery is not rigged. Stupid post.

No there are only 2 lottery draws. Don't be surprised if Chicago wins the lottery though. The odds of them moving up the number of spots they have since the lottery started is probably longer than being hit by lightning twice.

 

[Paddy17]

#1 Celebrini
#2 Demidov

At 5, 6 or 7th, I'm very conflicted right now between Lindstrom, Catton, and Iginla.

The fan in me wants Catton, the logical mind wants Lindstrom, and my guts are saying Iginla.

 

[bsl]

Canadiens could build a dynasty if they play this draft right. Get a good player at 5. Then trade up from Jets pick get a Sennecke or Eiserman. Struble and some later picks it might take. Demidov and Eiserman solid addition to our farm.

Sign the right UFA this summer.

No team is going to trade a top ten pick for a 25th pick. Unless unreal package. And Habs can’t afford to trade very good prospects with some experience for a number 10 pick. And this never happens anyway.

 

[Trabdy2]

Who's getting us a 1st at the TDL next year?
Not Savard if the market is like this year.

Also note that Calgary's 1st is almost certainly going to be Florida's 1st.

It's too early to tell with Savard, because it's uncertain what the market will be for dmen. He has been dealt for a 1st before. A 2nd is a decent asset too.

Even if it turns out to be Florida's 1st, it is still a pretty good asset to have. We already have two second round picks for next year, we could use one of them to move that pick up a handful of spots to get a player we have our eye on. Also, Florida has a ton of roster work to do this offseason. It's hard to tell how strong they might be next year.

 

[McGees]

No team is going to trade a top ten pick for a 25th pick. Unless unreal package. And Habs can’t afford to trade very good prospects with some experience for a number 10 pick. And this never happens anyway.

It's easy.
Harris, Kidney and a 2nd should do the trick.