HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Colezuki]

Who fits the culture best, that's who we should draft.

Culture matters, I'm a believer in a strong culture leading to strong results .

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Who fits the culture best, that's who we should draft.

Culture matters, I'm a believer in a strong culture leading to strong results .

Agreed.

But I think the culture has been established already. When you draft an 18 year old kid, he becomes immersed in that culture. He learns from the vets.

 

[Colezuki]

Agreed.

But I think the culture has been established already. When you draft an 18 year old kid, he becomes immersed in that culture. He learns from the vets.

Potentially, but he needs to have the attitude to join the culture, there are plenty examples of players who turn it from the team to the individual

 

[Rapala]

Matthew's scores more goals than McDavid, McKinnon and Kucherov but all those guys are a bigger game breaker.



I hope so but we have been playing hot and Primeau has been on fire.

Tampa are what something like 8-1-1 in their last ten.
Kucherov is pushing for an Art Ross.
Tampa could probably beat us even if this was their 3rd in 3.
I have no idea what to expect tonight.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Potentially, but he needs to have the attitude to join the culture, there are plenty examples of players who turn it from the team to the individual

Yep. If the guy likes weed and video games over practicing, he might not be ideal.

I’m simply saying that you’re talking about kids. They are usually moldable.

 

[hardcorehabs]

Last couple games vs Detroit should be fun. We might blow a spot in the draft but would be nice to play spoiler and kill their playoff hopes

 

[WeThreeKings]

Thats because Matthews doesn’t score in the playoffs.

Let’s be honest, that’s the real reason he’s not held in the same regard. He doesn’t show up in the postseason.

Or that he doesn't produce at the level those guys do. His playmaking game isn't expanding his game.

Tampa are what something like 8-1-1 in their last ten.
Kucherov is pushing for an Art Ross.
Tampa could probably beat us even if this was their 3rd in 3.
I have no idea what to expect tonight.

Tomkins let's in 3 goals early and Primeau shuts them down.

 

[Canadiens98]

As bad as Calgary has been lately, they still have to play the Sharks twice, Coyotes, and Ducks. I still don't believe we catch them, even if we win tonight. Arizona and Ottawa are embarrassing though and I fully expect us to finish ahead of each.

I know we need help scoring goals, but if the best player available is a dman, we have to pick him up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It seems like there's a huge diversity of opinions on where players will go from 2 to 10. Some are remarking they've never seen such a lack of consensus among the scouts they talk to.

It will be very interesting to see who goes where on draft day.

U18's will change things a bit as well. It usually does.

Those teams in front of us are way too close for comfort.

Need to go on a losing streak, starting tonight.

Good news is we have the lowest RW (regulation wins) from most teams. If we end up tied, they are behind us.

 

[LaP]

Tampa are what something like 8-1-1 in their last ten.
Kucherov is pushing for an Art Ross.
Tampa could probably beat us even if this was their 3rd in 3.
I have no idea what to expect tonight.

Expect the unexpected. We gonna win this one 6-1.

Last couple games vs Detroit should be fun. We might blow a spot in the draft but would be nice to play spoiler and kill their playoff hopes

I'd prefer for us to spoil the Flyers by letting Detroit wins both games.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As I watched Iggy Wiggy Woo Woo play last evening. I realized his team and his line mates aren't that good.
He was breaking into open ice almost every shift and they sure as hell weren't getting him the puck on time.
I laughed when at the start of the game; I think it was by about 25 second in Iginla already had three pucks on goal.

I started to take notice on Iginla about a month or so ago and said yeah, this guy has a chance to be drafted 5-12 range. Consensus has him what right now? Mid 1st round ish?

What are his flaws? Seems to have good size, skating, and likes to shoot/score. That to me is an indicator he will be taken earlier than expected.

 

[LaP]

Thats because Matthews doesn’t score in the playoffs.

Let’s be honest, that’s the real reason he’s not held in the same regard. He doesn’t show up in the postseason.

Matthew stats in playoffs are actually not terrible at all. They are inferior to regular season which is to be expected but 22 goals and 44 points in 50 games is a 35 goals and 72 points pace. He has 10 goals and 25 points in his last 25 playoffs games. He is +0 in career in playoffs and has been +4 in his last 25 playoffs games. The problem last year is outside of the top 4 nobody else did anything outside of ROR.

I started to take notice on Iginla about a month or so ago and said yeah, this guy has a chance to be drafted 5-12 range. Consensus has him what right now? Mid 1st round ish?

What are his flaws? Seems to have good size, skating, and likes to shoot/score. That to me is an indicator he will be taken earlier than expected.

I've been talking about him almost all season long. He's very good and i'd be 100% fine with him being our 1st round pick if we draft lower than expected. I would not trade him for anything but an overpayment.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Or that he doesn't produce at the level those guys do. His playmaking game isn't expanding his game.

A gamebreaker is a guy who scores big important goals. All the guys you listed apart from Matthews do that.

Bossy did it, Ovechkin did it, Hull did it… those are game breaking players.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Matthew stats in playoffs are actually not bterrible at all. They are inferior to regular season which is to be expected but 22 goals and 44 points in 50 games is a 35 goals and 72 points pace. He has 10 goals and 25 points in his last 25 playoffs games. He is +0 in career in playoffs and has been +4 in his last 25 playoffs games. The problem last year is outside of the top 4 nobody else did anything outside of ROR.


I've been talking about him almost all season long. He's very good and i'd be 100% fine with him being our 1st round pick if we draft lower than expected. I would not trade him for anything but an overpayment.


I've been talking about him almost all season long. He's very good and i'd be 100% fine with him being our 1st round pick if we draft lower than expected. I would not trade him for anything but an overpayment.

He’s not terrible but he’s not a gamebreaker either. Kucherov scores big goals so does McDavid. Both Matthews and Marner tend to shrink away once a series gets past game five. The Leafs haven’t been able to rely on him to get them over the hump - at least not yet.

 

[LaP]

A gamebreaker is a guy who scores big important goals. All the guys you listed apart from Matthews do that.

Bossy did it, Ovechkin did it, Hull did it… those are game breaking players.

Matthews has 5 game winning goals in playoffs. 1 overtime goal. He's been fine their depth (lack of) and goalies are the main problem.

He’s not terrible but he’s not a gamebreaker either. Kucherov scores big goals so does McDavid. Both Matthews and Marner tend to shrink away once a series gets past game five. The Leafs haven’t been able to rely on him to get them over the hump - at least not yet.

Kucherov is a monster, He is one of the best playoffs performer i've ever seen and i follow hockey since the mid 80ies. He's a very underrated player in my book.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Matthews has 5 game winning goals in playoffs. 1 overtime goal. He's been fine their depth (lack of) and goalies are the main problem.

He doesn’t produce past game five. Neither does Marner. It’s not just goaltending. Being ‘not bad’ ot ‘not terrible’ is okay… but it’s not what you want from the guy you’re hoping will lead you to victory. I certainly don’t think of him as a gamebreaker.

Kucherov is a monster, He is one of the best playoffs performer i've ever seen and i follow hockey since the mid 80ies. He's a very underrated player in my book.

Yep. He’s among the very best players in the league.

 

[Sorinth]

Who fits the culture best, that's who we should draft.

Culture matters, I'm a believer in a strong culture leading to strong results .

No way for us fans to really know, it comes down to interviews and talking to people arround the players. For example lots of people question Eiserman's work ethic, but at the same time he apparently spends a ton of his free time at the team's practice facility working on his shot. He's also being told by his coach to shoot as often as he can, so is he a guy who doesn't use his teammates or is he listening to the coach and following the game plan.

And it's the same for every other prospect, Catton gets seen as lazy by some people, but he's playing so many minutes that conserving his energy is required.

Sorting through the excuses to find the truth is part of what makes scouting so hard. In the end in terms of culture what we should care about is that desire to get better and be the best. If a player has that in them then it's just a question of directing their work/energy properly and Hughes has assembled a team that so far look to be doing that well.

 

[WeThreeKings]

A gamebreaker is a guy who scores big important goals. All the guys you listed apart from Matthews do that.

Bossy did it, Ovechkin did it, Hull did it… those are game breaking players.

A game breaker is a guy who creates big important goals. They don't have to be the guy who scores them. McDavid is going to have 100 assists, would we say he wasn't a game breaker this year because his goal total will be lower than a lot of players?

The original point was you saying Demidov might be more fun to watch but wouldn't necessarily be more of a game breaker than Eiserman because he wouldn't score as many goals. What matters most is someone who creates goals in big moments and I'll give the nod to the guy like Kucherov who engineered it over a guy like Stamkos who puts it in the open net.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

A game breaker is a guy who creates big important goals. They don't have to be the guy who scores them. McDavid is going to have 100 assists, would we say he wasn't a game breaker this year because his goal total will be lower than a lot of players?

A gamebreaker typically means the guy who scores big goals. And yeah, I’d include McDavid in that group but not because of his assists.

Who was the game breaker in St Louis? Hull or Oates? Was Bossy the game breaker or was it Trottier?

The original point was you saying Demidov might be more fun to watch but wouldn't necessarily be more of a game breaker than Eiserman because he wouldn't score as many goals. What matters most is someone who creates goals in big moments and I'll give the nod to the guy like Kucherov who engineered it over a guy like Stamkos who puts it in the open net.

I’m okay with us taking Demidov. Eiserman is one dimensional and I completely understand us going in another direction. I’ll be fine with whoever we take I’m sure.

But NOBODY in that draft has his shot. The potential for an elite scorer is there. I hope they think long and hard before passing on him. Goals for and against determine wins and losses. It is a rare talent and very hard to find. We aren’t going to be able to get this kind of talent again anytime soon.

We passed on Bossy because he didn’t have a two way game and it probably cost us multiple cups. I just don’t want to be looking at the scoring leaders years from now and seeing Eiserman’s name at the top with some other team beside his name.

 

[LaP]

A gamebreaker typically means the guy who scores big goals. And yeah, I’d include McDavid in that group but not because of his assists.

Who was the game breaker in St Louis? Hull or Oates? Was Bossy the game breaker or was it Trottier?


I’m okay with us taking Demidov. Eiserman is one dimensional and I completely understand us going in another direction. I’ll be fine with whoever we take I’m sure.

But NOBODY in that draft has his shot. The potential for an elite scorer is there. I hope they think long and hard before passing on him. Goals for and against determine wins and losses. It is a rare talent and very hard to find. We aren’t going to be able to get this kind of talent again anytime soon.

We passed on Bossy because he didn’t have a two way game and it probably cost us multiple cups. I just don’t want to be looking at the scoring leaders years from now and seeing Eiserman’s name at the top with some other team beside his name.

I would be fine with any of the top 5ish forwards honestly. Obviously we all want to be lucky and get Celebrini but i'd be fine with any of Demidov, Catton, Lindstrom, Iginla, Eiserman. The guy i probably want the less is Helenius. Sample size is small but he really did not impress me at the u20 at all. I'd probably avoid Catton too. I'll trust them to take the right guy so far Slafkovski and Reinbacher have both looked great imo.

 

[themilosh]

I would personally value Eiserman and Iginla over Lindstrom. Not by a wide margin but the injury concern would scare me off from using a top 10 pick on Lindstrom.

Lindstrom was a 3rd round (54th OA) pick in the 2021 WHL bantam draft. I'd be curious to see how many players drafted that low in the CHL ended up being a top 10 NHL pick 3 years later.

My guess:
* Eiserman goes 3-8 range
* Iginla moves down and goes 5-10 range
* Lindstrom moves up and goes 10-15 range.

He's a huge guy (like Byfield).. kids that size always look goofy/awkward when they hit their early teens. I wouldnt put much credence in his bantam draft position.

Reality is after Cellibrini, it'll come down to need and draft interview as to who goes where from 2-12.

Im not opposed to hugo picking Iggy or Eiserman so long as we don't go smaller..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would be fine with any of the top 5ish forwards honestly. Obviously we all want to be lucky and get Celebrini but i'd be fine with any of Demidov, Catton, Lindstrom, Iginla, Eiserman. The guy i probably want the less is Helenius. Sample size is small but he really did not impress me at the u20 at all. I'd probably avoid Catton too. I'll trust them to take the right guy so far Slafkovski and Reinbacher have both looked great imo.

I agree. I’ll be happy with any of them. As for Helenius, he is the least exciting because he doesn’t seem to be super strong any any one area. But I’ll trust the scouts, they know a lot more than I do.

 

[Sorinth]

Not to compare their games but the whole Helenius is good at everything but not elite at anything kind of reminds me of the Filip Forsberg talk. Forsberg was talked about with the same jack of all trades master of none guy who was safe bet to be an NHLer but who lacked the elite skills of the other high picks. He dropped to 11th but in the end that package of good at everything still resulted in a ppg player. Safe doesn't mean there isn't also potential for a high upside.

 

[26Mats]

Not to compare their games but the whole Helenius is good at everything but not elite at anything kind of reminds me of the Filip Forsberg talk. Forsberg was talked about with the same jack of all trades master of none guy who was safe bet to be an NHLer but who lacked the elite skills of the other high picks. He dropped to 11th but in the end that package of good at everything still resulted in a ppg player. Safe doesn't mean there isn't also potential for a high upside.

Yes, I take all this pre-draft talk with a grain of salt. It is very difficult to predict how a 17 year old will be at 25. That's why we have to hope those with expertise and are putting in the time, and who work in our scouting department, can make some good predictions.

Like baseball hitters, who if they hit a baseball for a hit 3 out of 10 times for their career go to the hall of fame, they will have a ton of misses.

 

[Nicko999]

Now we now who we play on Thursday

Another super predictable bet to do. Easiest money you'll ever make.