HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[themilosh]

Lindstrom is interesting at center. So is Catton. If they want to go that way it’ll be interesting to see what we do with Dach.

Im all in on Lidstrom if we don't win Celebrini... but either or would indeed be that "big splash" im talking about.

Catton is too small for us.. he's a fantastic player, but doesn't work with our current makeup. He needs to grow; AHL, etc.... years away... doesnt fit our window. Ludstrom/Celebrini/Carlsson/Fantilli

Thats what we desperately need.

When I say we need that 1C, it is also a Big 1C.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Im all in on Lidstrom if we don't win Celebrini... but either or would indeed be that "big splash" im talking about.

Catton is too small for us.. he's a fantastic player, but doesn't work with our current makeup. He needs to grow; AHL, etc.... years away... doesnt fit our window. Ludstrom/Celebrini/Carlsson/Fantilli

Thats what we desperately need.

When I say we need that 1C, it is also a Big 1C.

Everyone has written off Eiserman - a shooting winger. But honestly, he could be the superstar people have been pining for. Lots to work on. Isn’t overly physical- but he’s got decent size, can skate and is another Caufield in terms of scoring. If we had two elite goal scorers the. The offense is set. I hope they give strong consideration to him if we don’t get Lindstrom.

 

[themilosh]

Everyone has written off Eiserman - a shooting winger. But honestly, he could be the superstar people have been pining for. Lots to work on. Isn’t overly physical- but he’s got decent size, can skate and is another Caufield in terms of scoring. If we had two elite goal scorers the. The offense is set. I hope they give strong consideration to him if we don’t get Lindstrom.

Eisermen would be a good pick up IF dach works out

 

[Miller Time]

You’ll always depend on your linemates, some do more than others. But real number ones drive the points. I don’t see that with Suzuki. I think he depends on his linemates a lot more than most number ones do. And I think the talk of him having nobody to play with has been largely overstated.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Mackinnon is the same as Suzuki? I mean come on. Dylan Larkin is doing really well with almost no help at all.

Detroit has 180 goals this year, almost 40 more than Mtl...

Some of you seriously underestimate the impact of talent on an NHL roster.

Habs have 1 other fwd (2 before Monahan got dealt) with more than 30pts on the year, and only 1 more over 20. Red Wings have 9 over 20.

Obviously Mac, a future first ballot HOF is better than Suzuki... And... he plays with considerably more talent than Suzuki does (as does Larkin). Both statements are true, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tank or no tank, improving the talent in the Habs roster is a priority... One that KH is slowly addressing (slowed down by MBs cap mess). Ignoring that in evaluating Suzuki's point output is silly. He's easily a 1C talent, the only question is how much more productive will he be when he's finally playing with some consistent talent (not just on his wings, but in the roster around him).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Detroit has 180 goals this year, almost 40 more than Mtl...

Some of you seriously underestimate the impact of talent on an NHL roster.

Habs have 1 other fwd (2 before Monahan got dealt) with more than 30pts on the year, and only 1 more over 20. Red Wings have 9 over 20.

Obviously Mac, a future first ballot HOF is better than Suzuki... And... he plays with considerably more talent than Suzuki does (as does Larkin). Both statements are true, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tank or no tank, improving the talent in the Habs roster is a priority... One that KH is slowly addressing (slowed down by MBs cap mess). Ignoring that in evaluating Suzuki's point output is silly. He's easily a 1C talent, the only question is how much more productive will he be when he's finally playing with some consistent talent (not just on his wings, but in the roster around him).

I don’t agree.

But I think if Dach can stay healthy then together they should be able to handle the load at center.

To me, it doesn’t matter if the offense comes from the middle or the wings as long as it comes. If we add a Demidov or Eiserman, I’m fine with that. The issue is Dach’s health.

But yeah, I would absolutely love to add a big center who can rack up points. That would mean we could have the option to have three solid scoring lines or move one of Nick or Dach to the wing. Either way it works.

We just need to draft around 8th to land a solid forward. Anything higher would be nice and hopefully we can move up in the draft. I think there’s a good chance that Lindstrom is still around 5th or 6th.

As for the Suzki debate- that can be had elsewhere.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Eisermen would be a good pick up IF dach works out

Yeah. I think Dach is a great option for us and would view him and Suzuki as 1B guys. Together it works. But I hate the idea of relying on Dach’s health. So many injuries at such a young age. Hopefully he’s better going forward.

Getting a center would be a nice option and give us flexibility. At least then we’re not as reliant on him as we were. Catton doesn’t have the size of Lindstrom but certainly has the talent. He’s another option.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

With all due respect, that's underselling Zibanejad by quite a bit who is a top 10C in the league. Is Suzuki better than Draisaitl because he gets to play with McDavid?

Zibanejad is definitely not a top 10 center. The guy has a big shot and can skate, but he has a lot of other issues. In any case, we will agree to disagree on Suzuki.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Please just be 5th last, or lower.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I don’t think he is. Suzuki is a bottom tier number one. I think his production greatly depends on his teammates and I don’t think that’s the case for a real number one.

The other day some poster was talking about how many more points he’d have if he were on Tampa or Dallas. The reality is that both of those clubs have two centers each who are as good or better than Suzuki and he’d likely be a 2nd liner on those teams or be moved to the wing.

Yes, he’s defensively responsible. Solid player. But he doesn’t drive offense the way others do. In Montreal he gets a ton of minutes, top PP and the best linemates. That wouldn’t be the case if we had a real number one.

Suzuki's production definitely doesn't depend on his teammates. He drives his own line & always has. The fact that his point totals would go up with better players is pretty much true for majority of players. You get an exponential effect when good players play together.

Players like McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl are super stars, franchise players. No one is saying Suzuki is that, but to say he's worse than Lindholm, Barzal, etc is laughable.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Ok getting this thread back on topic.

A win today against St. Louis and Montreal passes Arizona & Minnesota again. They will also tie Seattle, who is starting to flounder again, and move to within one point of Pittsburgh, and two points back of NJD. Good news is Jack Hughes is back, so I'm hopeful New Jersey can go on a run.

We will also move 4 pts up on shitty Buffalo, and 8 pts up on pathetic Ottawa.

Montreal hasn't won the 2nd game of a back-to-back this year, so let's not start now.

The only other game today, which is also an afternoon game is Canucks @ Capitals. Washington surprisingly beat Boston yesterday, but I'm really not expecting much from them. I'm hoping for a point. If they get a point & Montreal loses, they move 4 pts up on Montreal.

If Caps lose & Montreal wins then Montreal gets within a point of Washington.

 

[Rapala]

Eisermen would be a good pick up IF dach works out

At this point having another Big Center would be ideal. Nothing wrong with starting on a wing like Dach did with us and having that versatility.
Some good teams are screwed for not having that option. Taking the IF Dach right out of the equation.

 

[teamfirst]

Edited with this:
Either way, I provided 25 names so even if you scrap Lindholm, Stamkos, Reinhart and Barzal that still leaves you with 21Cs at the moment. I expect Carlsson and Celebrini to pass Suzuki really quickly as well. I also forgot Beniers, Kopitar and Scheifele.

Suzuki is a low end 1C closer to 30th in the league.

I also really don't think it's dense. They're comparable players.

For what it's worth, i think you're right .....i see the same thing and i really like Suzuki's game

 

[ryan callahan]

Im all in on Lidstrom if we don't win Celebrini... but either or would indeed be that "big splash" im talking about.

Catton is too small for us.. he's a fantastic player, but doesn't work with our current makeup. He needs to grow; AHL, etc.... years away... doesnt fit our window. Ludstrom/Celebrini/Carlsson/Fantilli

Thats what we desperately need.

When I say we need that 1C, it is also a Big 1C.

Lmao what? Catton is light years ahead of Lindstrom in terms of development and play driving abilities. You put Lindstrom in the NHL next year and he probably ends up on the 4th line.

 

[themilosh]

Lmao what? Catton is light years ahead of Lindstrom in terms of development and play driving abilities. You put Lindstrom in the NHL next year and he probably ends up on the 4th line.

Yes but in 3 years Lidstrom is that so coveter big 1C that is near impossible to trade for.

At this point having another Big Center would be ideal. Nothing wrong with starting on a wing like Dach did with us and having that versatility.
Some good teams are screwed for not having that option. Taking the IF Dach right out of the equation.

I didn't realize eaiserman played C as well..

 

[Rapala]

Ok getting this thread back on topic.

A win today against St. Louis and Montreal passes Arizona & Minnesota again. They will also tie Seattle, who is starting to flounder again, and move to within one point of Pittsburgh, and two points back of NJD. Good news is Jack Hughes is back, so I'm hopeful New Jersey can go on a run.

We will also move 4 pts up on shitty Buffalo, and 8 pts up on pathetic Ottawa.

Montreal hasn't won the 2nd game of a back-to-back this year, so let's not start now.

The only other game today, which is also an afternoon game is Canucks @ Capitals. Washington surprisingly beat Boston yesterday, but I'm really not expecting much from them. I'm hoping for a point. If they get a point & Montreal loses, they move 4 pts up on Montreal.

If Caps lose & Montreal wins then Montreal gets within a point of Washington.

Aren't GDT's about everything but the game.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Suzuki's production definitely doesn't depend on his teammates. He drives his own line & always has. The fact that his point totals would go up with better players is pretty much true for majority of players. You get an exponential effect when good players play together.

Players like McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl are super stars, franchise players. No one is saying Suzuki is that, but to say he's worse than Lindholm, Barzal, etc is laughable.

I’ll just say that I don’t see him as a guy who is a 1A.

I’d love to upgrade there if possible. If not, I think Dach and Nick can handle the load together as long as Dach’s healthy. Ideally, I’d like the franchise number one guy. I don’t think Nick is it. But I think two 1B guys can win a cup if you surround them with talent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes but in 3 years Lidstrom is that so coveter big 1C that is near impossible to trade for.


I didn't realize eaiserman played C as well..

Catton isn’t small. And there are some scouts who are really high on him as a number one.

And that’s the great news if we’re drafting 7th or 8th, some of these guys will be available. Lindstrom could be available… He’s not the de facto number two in this draft. Bobby Mack’s list has him fifth and I’ve seen him 10th elsewhere.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes but in 3 years Lidstrom is that so coveter big 1C that is near impossible to trade for.


I didn't realize eaiserman played C as well..

He’s a winger.

 

[Miller Time]

I don’t agree.

But I think if Dach can stay healthy then together they should be able to handle the load at center.

To me, it doesn’t matter if the offense comes from the middle or the wings as long as it comes. If we add a Demidov or Eiserman, I’m fine with that. The issue is Dach’s health.

But yeah, I would absolutely love to add a big center who can rack up points. That would mean we could have the option to have three solid scoring lines or move one of Nick or Dach to the wing. Either way it works.

We just need to draft around 8th to land a solid forward. Anything higher would be nice and hopefully we can move up in the draft. I think there’s a good chance that Lindstrom is still around 5th or 6th.

As for the Suzki debate- that can be had elsewhere.

Meh
The fantasy wish list notion of team building is the EAsports impact.

Reality is that there are all sorts of roster configurations that can win. Having guys like Suzuki in place is more important in the pursuit of excellence.

A guy like Eiserman, much like another elite US scoring phenom (Kessel) doesn't help much unless he's playing in a winning environment, with guys committed to team excellence leading the charge in setting the culture.

Suzuki, CC, Guhle, Slaf... These Youngs guys have that drive, on top of great talent. Its fascinating how many posters underestimate the mental aspect of the game.

We just need to keep incrementally increasing the roster talent by a mix of ongoing excellent internal drafting & development and continuing to leverage quality asset management to address specific roster gaps. I'm just as fine if they trade this year's 1st for a targeted established addition as I would be us drafting one of this year's top forwards.

Rolling the dice on an Eiserman is no guarantee to get us closer to contention than adding a more proven piece that the pro scouting group is confident will fill a top 6 upgrade need while completing or preferably adding to the great culture that they are building.

Real world culture building looks very different than stat sheet or video game roster improvement.

 

[Miller Time]

Ok getting this thread back on topic.

A win today against St. Louis and Montreal passes Arizona & Minnesota again. They will also tie Seattle, who is starting to flounder again, and move to within one point of Pittsburgh, and two points back of NJD. Good news is Jack Hughes is back, so I'm hopeful New Jersey can go on a run.

We will also move 4 pts up on shitty Buffalo, and 8 pts up on pathetic Ottawa.

Montreal hasn't won the 2nd game of a back-to-back this year, so let's not start now.

The only other game today, which is also an afternoon game is Canucks @ Capitals. Washington surprisingly beat Boston yesterday, but I'm really not expecting much from them. I'm hoping for a point. If they get a point & Montreal loses, they move 4 pts up on Montreal.

If Caps lose & Montreal wins then Montreal gets within a point of Washington.

Ottawa beat the laffs last night... Hopefully they are starting to gel under Martin and will pull off a late season run to move past us.

Sabres & Capitals I fear may be lost causes. Could see both of them being aggressive sellers at the deadline & as management throws in the towel, neither team has the kind of culture in place that is likely to keep them competitive in the last month.

 

[McGees]

Catton isn’t small. And there are some scouts who are really high on him as a number one.

And that’s the great news if we’re drafting 7th or 8th, some of these guys will be available. Lindstrom could be available… He’s not the de facto number two in this draft. Bobby Mack’s list has him fifth and I’ve seen him 10th elsewhere.

Lindstrom is gone top 3. I don’t see a world where he is available for us.

 

[bsl]

Reinhart isn't a center, he's a winger. Barzal is also a winger. Horvat is his center.

Lindholm is definitely not better than Suzuki, neither are: Zibanejad, Thomas, or Hischier. Suzuki hasn't hit his prime yet. A better team will see his points rise. I'm looking forward to seeing how he & Slafkovsky grow together.

Also, Fantilli is also currently a winger, and is likely to stay there.

Lol zib is way better than Suzuki. Watch some games.

 

[bsl]

Barzal is definitely not better than Suzuki. It doesn't matter where he plays. He's had one good year his rookie year, and that's about it. Zibanejad is feeding off Panarin. Suzuki is a way better player.

It's not all about points. Suzuki's defensive impact is one of the best in the league this year. He's behind Barkov and that's it, and he's doing that while playing on a terrible team.

You're really under valuing Suzuki by quite a bit.

Lol. Zib feeding off Panarin. Suzuki is an excellent number 2 c. Not a no 1 c on a cup winner. Get real.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Lol zib is way better than Suzuki. Watch some games.

I watch a lot of games, thanks anyway.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Lol. Zib feeding off Panarin. Suzuki is an excellent number 2 c. Not a no 1 c on a cup winner. Get real.

I've already seen Suzuki in the playoffs, and in a cup final.