HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Gravity]

Lindholm is debatable? Are you for real? What an insult to Suzuki. Before you bring up his 82 point season years ago, know that his linemates had at least 24 more points than him.

Since Lindholm got to Calgary he's been a consistent ~65 point player which is what Suzuki is till date.

cool so you admit to just stat watching gotcha

Do you watch all 32 teams regularly?

 

[The Great Weal]

I don’t think he is. Suzuki is a bottom tier number one. I think his production greatly depends on his teammates and I don’t think that’s the case for a real number one.

The other day some poster was talking about how many more points he’d have if he were on Tampa or Dallas. The reality is that both of those clubs have two centers each who are as good or better than Suzuki and he’d likely be a 2nd liner on those teams or be moved to the wing.

Yes, he’s defensively responsible. Solid player. But he doesn’t drive offense the way others do. In Montreal he gets a ton of minutes, top PP and the best linemates. That wouldn’t be the case if we had a real number one.

Nathan Mackinnon's production depended on linemates too. Which #1 center doesn't? Not comparing Suzuki to Mackinnon but it's an awful argument to say he gets the best linemates when he had nearly double the amount of points than our second leading point producer last year. His linemates most of the time suck. This year with Slaf and Caufield it's been great and all three are benefitting from it.

 

[The Great Weal]

Since Lindholm got to Calgary he's been a consistent ~65 point player which is what Suzuki is till date.

You mean since playing with elite players. To say that Lindholm is better than Suzuki in the year 2024 is absurd.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nathan Mackinnon's production depended on linemates too. Which #1 center doesn't? Not comparing Suzuki to Mackinnon but it's an awful argument to say he gets the best linemates when he had nearly double the amount of points than our second leading point producer last year.

You’ll always depend on your linemates, some do more than others. But real number ones drive the points. I don’t see that with Suzuki. I think he depends on his linemates a lot more than most number ones do. And I think the talk of him having nobody to play with has been largely overstated.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Mackinnon is the same as Suzuki? I mean come on. Dylan Larkin is doing really well with almost no help at all.

 

[Gravity]

You mean since playing with elite players. To say that Lindholm is better than Suzuki in the year 2024 is absurd.

I mean he put up 64 points last year without playing with elite players (unless you consider Huderdeau right now elite).

Either way, I provided 25 names so even if you scrap Lindholm, Stamkos, Reinhart and Barzal that still leaves you with 21Cs at the moment. I expect Carlsson and Celebrini to pass Suzuki really quickly as well. I also forgot Kopitar, Beniers and Scheifele.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean he put up 64 points last year without playing with elite players (unless you consider Huderdeau right now elite).

I don’t want to sidetrack this thread and the Suzuki debate is an animal all it’s own.

To bring it back on topic - I look at our forwards and don’t see the true number one center. It’s something I’d love to have. On the flipside I love Kirby Dach. If he can get to be close to as good as Suzuki- and I think he can - then that mitigates the need. With two centers that good, I have zero issues with us going for a winger instead. If we got say - Eiserman… we could have him on one line and CC on the other. Roy, Nick, Slaf Dach to go with it and I think that’s be a pretty great top six.

If we get Lindstrom I guess either Dach or Nick could move to wing….

 

[Gravity]

Suzuki has gotten dick all for consistent linemates until CC-Suzuki-Slaf this season.

Did you even bother to read my entire post?




Yeah playing with Debrincat and Raymond is pretty much no help at all.


He played with Toffoli who had nearly as many goals as our second leading producer had points. Stop being so dense, Lindholm is nowhere near Suzuki.

Edited with this:
Either way, I provided 25 names so even if you scrap Lindholm, Stamkos, Reinhart and Barzal that still leaves you with 21Cs at the moment. I expect Carlsson and Celebrini to pass Suzuki really quickly as well. I also forgot Beniers, Kopitar and Scheifele.

Suzuki is a low end 1C closer to 30th in the league.

I also really don't think it's dense. They're comparable players.

 

[The Great Weal]

I don’t want to sidetrack this thread and the Suzuki debate is an animal all it’s own.

To bring it back on topic - I look at our forwards and don’t see the true number one center. It’s something I’d love to have.

I don't see a true top 10 forward on the team which is an issue. If you aren't going anywhere with Suzuki as your best forward you aren't with Caufield as your best forward. We gotta get lucky with the draft lottery or a late pick to get that stud top 10 forward or we gotta depend on having a deep lineup.

 

[Gravity]

I don't see a true top 10 forward on the team which is an issue. If you aren't going anywhere with Suzuki as your best forward you aren't with Caufield as your best forward. We gotta get lucky with the draft lottery or a late pick to get that stud top 10 forward or we gotta depend on having a deep lineup.

For once we agree.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Edited with this:
Either way, I provided 25 names so even if you scrap Lindholm, Stamkos, Reinhart and Barzal that still leaves you with 21Cs at the moment. I expect Carlsson and Celebrini to pass Suzuki really quickly as well. I also forgot Beniers, Kopitar and Scheifele.

Suzuki is a low end 1C closer to 30th in the league.

The real question is whether or not a Center tandem of Suzuki and Dach would be good enough of we had strong wingers. I think the answer is probably yes.

Dach has to stay healthy and prove what he can do. But he looked great in what we’ve seen. Both are at least good 1B guys. Between the two it should work if the wingers are there.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't see a true top 10 forward on the team which is an issue. If you aren't going anywhere with Suzuki as your best forward you aren't with Caufield as your best forward. We gotta get lucky with the draft lottery or a late pick to get that stud top 10 forward or we gotta depend on having a deep lineup.

We’re unlikely to get a top ten player in the league. Want to know why? There are only ten.

 

[Gravity]

The real question is whether or not a Center tandem of Suzuki and Dach would be good enough of we had strong wingers. I think the answer is probably yes.

Dach has to stay healthy and prove what he can do. But he looked great in what we’ve seen. Both are at least good 1B guys. Between the two it should work if the wingers are there.

It can work if you have a gamebreaking winger. Maybe Slaf but not sure he'll be a consistent 100 pt threat.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Edited with this:
Either way, I provided 25 names so even if you scrap Lindholm, Stamkos, Reinhart and Barzal that still leaves you with 21Cs at the moment. I expect Carlsson and Celebrini to pass Suzuki really quickly as well. I also forgot Beniers, Kopitar and Scheifele.

Suzuki is a low end 1C closer to 30th in the league.

I also really don't think it's dense. They're comparable players.

Please take this debate to the Suzuki thread.

It’s fine to say you don’t think Suzuki is good enough to win for the purposes of identifying a need. That’s on topic. But if you’re going to get in the weeds on this, go to the Suzuki thread please.

 

[The Great Weal]

We’re unlikely to get a top ten player in the league. Want to know why? There are only ten.

I said top 10 FORWARD. This might be compensated if we had a top 10 dman in the league but I don't see that in the pipeline.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It can work if you have a gamebreaking winger. Maybe Slaf but not sure he'll be a consistent 100 pt threat.

I don’t think Slaf will be 100 points. I don’t think CC will be 100 points either. But I do think CC will be a top ten goal scorer. I also think Slaf will be a beast possession wise. Roy I think looks like a good breakout candidate and then we’ll add something more this year.

We’re going to have a bunch of 70-80 point guys with some élite goalscoring to go with it. The forwards need more work and I’d love to have a Bedard. Honestly though l, a Lindstrom or an Eiserman… that’s be incredible. Our top six would look pretty good.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I said top 10 FORWARD. This might be compensated if we had a top 10 dman in the league but I don't see that in the pipeline.

We won’t have a top ten forward either.

 

[Gravity]

I don’t think Slaf will be 100 points. I don’t think CC will be 100 points either. But I do think CC will be a top ten goal scorer. I also think Slaf will be a beast possession wise. Roy I think looks like a good breakout candidate and then we’ll add something more this year.

We’re going to have a bunch of 70-80 point guys with some élite goalscoring to go with it. The forwards need more work and I’d love to have a Bedard. Honestly though l, a Lindstrom or an Eiserman… that’s be incredible. Our top six would look pretty good.

I'd prefer Demidov. Inject raw skill. We need a Kaprizov-esque player.

 

[themilosh]

Lol not even close. Here's 20Cs better than Suzuki:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Matthews
Bedard
Crosby
Malkin
Eichel
Hintz
Pettersson
Miller
Reinhart
Aho
Barzal
Point
Barkov
Zibanejad
Stamkos
Thomas
Hughes
Draisaitl
Stutzle
Lindholm
Tavares
Hischier
Larkin
And soon to be: Fantilli, Carlsson, Celebrini

He's a perfect 1B/2A.

Which exactly why I say he is a Cup Winning 2C.. best in the biz..

Good thing Hugo knows this.. if the Dach experiment ends in another injury, it's done for good, no confidence. If he puts his injuries behind him once and for all.. comes out next year like a man possessed, its entirely possible Slaf-Dach+ become the 1A line while CC-SZK+ become the 2A(1B) line.

1 big splash add, and that top 6 is scary good.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'd prefer Demidov. Inject raw skill. We need a Kaprizov-esque player.

Okay sure… I think any of them would be great. That’s the good news, we’ll have a good pick in a draft with lots of great forwards. I’d be fine with… Catton. Lots to choose from.

 

[Gravity]

Which exactly why I say he is a Cup Winning 2C.. best in the biz..

Good thing Hugo knows this.. if the Dach experiment ends in another injury, it's done for good, no confidence. If he puts his injuries behind him once and for all.. comes out next year like a man possessed, its entirely possible Slaf-Dach+ become the 1A line while CC-SZK+ become the 2A(1B) line.

1 big splash add, and that top 6 is scary good.

Dach (disregarding injuries) needs to work on his shot significantly. If not he'll top out as a Ryan Johansen player imo.

 

[The Great Weal]

We won’t have a top ten forward either.

Well yes that's the issue. Who's the last cup winner without at least one top 10 forward/dman in the league? That's a key ingredient for a cup winner.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Which exactly why I say he is a Cup Winning 2C.. best in the biz..

Good thing Hugo knows this.. if the Dach experiment ends in another injury, it's done for good, no confidence. If he puts his injuries behind him once and for all.. comes out next year like a man possessed, its entirely possible Slaf-Dach+ become the 1A line while CC-SZK+ become the 2A(1B) line.

1 big splash add, and that top 6 is scary good.

Lindstrom is interesting at center. So is Catton. If they want to go that way it’ll be interesting to see what we do with Dach.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well yes that's the issue. Who's the last cup winner without at least one top 10 forward/dman in the league? That's a key ingredient for a cup winner.

I think we might easily have a top ten blueliner. I think we’ll have a top ten goal scorer. And we’ll be pretty big and mobile on the back end.

We won’t know for a while yet. Most of these guys aren’t even on the league. I have high hopes for Roy but maybe he doesn’t pan out. On the flipside maybe Hutson comes in and kills it.

Right now I see a collection of really good players with a few that have star potential. You don’t have to be a top ten forward to be a star.

 

[themilosh]

Dach (disregarding injuries) needs to work on his shot significantly. If not he'll top out as a Ryan Johansen player imo.

I would think he will be working on everything during his injury rehab to focus on becoming Steve Austin (6M$ man) next year..

Think about where his head must be at? If I were him I'd be 100% all-in to work 10hrs/day studying and working other set groups, just to keep sharp. No reason he shouldnt become a sponge absorbing brain... hell, he should even take french lessons on his down time, exercising his brain does wonders to confidence.

If he fails again with another injury, i think his career might be over.. that should scare 5he hell out of him

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would think he will be working on everything during his injury rehab to focus on becoming Steve Austin (6M$ man) next year..

Think about where his head must be at? If I were him I'd be 100% all-in to work 10hrs/day studying and working other set groups, just to keep sharp. No reason he shouldnt become a sponge absorbing brain... hell, he should even take french lessons on his down time, exercising his brain does wonders to confidence.

If he fails again with another injury, i think his career might be over.. that should scare 5he hell out of him

Yeah, he’s played a pretty small amount of games over the past few years. He really needs at least 70 next year.