HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[salbutera]

I don't know Eiserman tbh i'm not following USHL and college hockey and he was not part of the u20. I saw him a bit but sample size is so small ... But i think we need another bigger body or at least a 6 feet guy who can play big beside Dach and Slaf.

Pls take this in perspective, but “they” also said Bossy couldn’t do anything but shoot & score..

 

[DAChampion]

Let's just say you have 1 apple and you need 1 apple (that you already have). Someone offer you an apple and you say no cause you already have one. Then that person say hey but what about the apple you already got why don't you throw it away too?

Just STFU and bake an apple pie.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Just STFU and bake an apple pie.

Yeah, I love baked apples!


This thread is making me hungry.

 

[Sorinth]

I've been arguing for a minimum of 20 years now that people should stop to focus on "tanking/Buffalo/Edmonton" and start talking about assets management. A sports team is a business. You've got assets and you have to make them increase in value if you want to win a cup.

1. Elite players are drafted. Most elite players in the league are playing for the team that drafted them. Kucherov drafted, BigMAc drafted, Pasternak drafted, McJesus drafted, Rantanen drafted. Pettersson drafted, ... out of the top 20 scorers 18 were drafted by the team they are playing for. Only Panarin and Miller were not.
2. Top UFA players signing for a different team usually sign for a winning team or a tax haven team or the team giving them a ridiculous contract that will become a problem sooner than later.
3. Elite players are usually drafted in the top 10. Very very rarely outside of the top 45ish.

So if you are a bubble team in a non tax haven city the best way to improve the team and make it a contender is the draft. It's as simple as that. So if you are a bubble team 3-4 years away from contention you should trade most (not all) of your 30 years old players for picks. That's just logical imo. And if you do so then obviously the bubble team you have will become a bottom 10 team and draft in the top 10.

Overall agree, but it's worth mentioning that 3 of the current top-5 point producers in the NHL aren't top-10 picks and 16 of the top-32 aren't top-10 either. So it's kind of overstated that you need to tank to get elite players, especially since every cup winning team that tanked managed to find at least 1 elite player outside of their tank picks.

And it's also worth noting that you don't need to tank in the summer to get top picks. We've had 4 top-5 picks in the past 20 years and arguably only one came from what would be a planned tank year.

So if you are a bubble team in a non-tax haven city the best way to improve is ensure that you get the most out of your picks, which means a proper development environment both before and after players make the NHL. That might mean keeping a couple veterans around, it might be getting a former star whose past their prime but can still teach the kids the right way to play, it could mean maintaining a relatively competitive team with lots of internal competition from vets so that the young guys are eased into and up the lineup, and it can mean trading older players to make room for young guys to take a bigger role. In the end it's as much personality management as asset management since maximize the value of your best assets is arguably more important then acquiring extra non-blue chip assets.

 

[Sorinth]

Just asking… how would that be any different than Caufield?

We've seen this year that Caufield is much more then a unidimensional shooter, but yeah that was his M.O at the draft. For me it's not a huge concern that Eiserman is just a goal scorer and brings nothing else, but like Caufield he'll need to round out the rest of his game and the key to guessing if he'll do that is to look at the personality. Will Eiserman become more engaged and expand his game as he faces tougher competition? How eager is he to learn all the little details that you need in order to find success at the NHL level? What's his off ice commitment level like? How does he handle criticism/pressure? If he could be any animal what animal would he be

At the end of the day you can have the shot of a 50 goal scorer, but if that's all you have you won't become a 50 goal scorer. You'll top out at a Mike Hoffman level, or maybe a Mike Cammalleri. Which isn't actually bad, Hoffman is 11th in total scoring for his draft class, and Cammalleri is 5th so you're kinda of getting your money's worth for the pick, it's just if that's what you project Eiserman to become then there's almost certainly someone else that you'll think is the more interesting prospect and worth taking the chance on.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

OMG! Senaturds suck so bad! How the f*** do we keep losing to that trash team!

3-0 Nashville after 1.

No way is Ottawa catching Montreal. Lame...

Sogard with the beautiful .727 save percentage.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

OMG! Senaturds suck so bad! How the f*** do we keep losing to that trash team!

3-0 Nashville after 1.

No way is Ottawa catching Montreal. Lame...

Sogard with the beautiful .727 save percentage.

Would an NHL goaltender make a big difference?

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Would an NHL goaltender make a big difference?

Probably. But Ottawa seems to be a goalie graveyard. Goalies that get traded do better at their new location, so it's not just goaltending. Forwards don't backcheck.

 

[SwiftyHab]

The Sens man….ugh

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Sens score twice!

3-2 Nashville midway through 2nd.

Go Sens!

 

[SwiftyHab]

Oh shit. The Sens are alive! 3-3

 

[BenchBrawl]

This season can't end soon enough. Nothing to look forward to at this point.

The draft will be interesting. I'm guessing we pick 9th-11th.

 

[atrud66]

Best possible result! But man Ottawa are f***ing embarrassing!

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I actually had Ottawa making the playoffs this year geez was i wayyy off

 

[rahad]

I actually had Ottawa making the playoffs this year geez was i wayyy off

Most people had Ottawa in the playoff or close to a playoff spot. Not many had the Sens in the bottom 5....

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Ottawa WON! Ha. Ha. Ha.



4-3 in OT. Good job, Senaturds!


Their next game is Wednesday @ Detroit. Detroit is playing extremely well right now. They're 7-2-1 in their last 10, and 14-8-4 at home. Sens always play Atlantic division foes well.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

2 games today.

The Blues getting a point over CBJ would be nice. They're starting to pull away from Montreal, so it's no longer imperative.

Kraken need to beat SJS. Tonight's game means Montreal will have a game in hand on them, so a win here is a must.

 

[26Mats]

2 games today.

The Blues getting a point over CBJ would be nice. They're starting to pull away from Montreal, so it's no longer imperative.

Kraken need to beat SJS. Tonight's game means Montreal will have a game in hand on them, so a win here is a must.

Do the blue jackets and Sens have a chance of catching us? Probably not for the Jackets.

 

[LaP]

Do the blue jackets and Sens have a chance of catching us? Probably not for the Jackets.

Jackets absolutely not. Sens maybe if they win their games in hands but it's a very remote chance. The best is for the teams ahead of us to win against the bottom 5 teams (unless they are more than 6 points ahead of us).

 

[NORiculous]

No way is Ottawa catching Montreal. Lame...

Most probable but I believe Jacques Martin will do a good job and they will at least finish hot. I’m hoping he gets them going faster though.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

They were always bad collectively defensively and haven't gotten better.

Agreed. Starting to look like the junior leafs. What they lack is another top four shutdown D.

Most probable but I believe Jacques Martin will do a good job and they will at least finish hot. I’m hoping he gets them going faster though.

They’ve started turning it around a bit. I suspect a strong finish as well

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Do the blue jackets and Sens have a chance of catching us? Probably not for the Jackets.

Jackets nope. Sens maybe. They have 3 games in hand, and have one more game against Montreal. They're 8 pts back. It's doable, but they have to go at least .500 on those 4 games (won 1st), and then just play slightly better than Montreal over final quarter.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Nobody ever said that tanking is the only way to build a good team.

But then again you conveniently brush away like if it was nothing the fact they drafted 3rd overall because it fits your narrative. Also you brush away the fact that they got Jason Robertson and Hintz in the 2nd round because it also fits your narrative. Try to replicate those two 2nd round pick in 2 years and i wish you very very very good luck you'll need it.

The point people are making since the very beginning as early as the 90ies is good players are drafted and it's easier to draft them top 10 than in the 2nd round and later like Robertson and Hintz. It's also easier if you have multiple top 100 picks cause the draft is not a perfect science and you need luck and more picks = more chances to be lucky.

You can argue as long as you want but being a bubble team is not a sound strategy. The Montreal Canadiens of the last 30 years is a very good example of that. Good players are drafted. Dallas is a very good example of that thank you for bringing it up honestly. Pretty much all their important players were drafted. So if you can't compete for a cup you should try to grab picks and in the process you'll lose more games than you'll win and draft in the top 10.

What is my narrative? That people should be good at their jobs? How am I brushing away anything? Miro is half my post, Robertson and Hintz are the other half of my post.

I have definitely seen a lot of posts, especially ones that reference past cup winners, that say the key to success is being really bad. It's one avenue, but it isn't the only avenue. I hope we get a high pick this year, but I don't really think our rebuild depends on 5th vs 10th overall.

The year the Stars got Miro is actualy similar to the Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi years for the Habs. All mid teams that thought they could be good that got key injuries and wasted an entire season. Stars finished 8th last but moved up in the lotto.

Speaking of fits your narrative, the last paragraph isn't really worth addressing

 

[montreal]

I hope we get a high pick this year, but I don't really think our rebuild depends on 5th vs 10th overall.

No matter where we end up picking, they have to make the right picks then they have to develop them properly, coach them up and surround them with good vets and hope they can build a contender.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Man that Jackets - Blues game has to be flipping boring. It's 0-0, shots are 11-9 through 2 periods.

20 combined shots in 40 minutes. Damn, glad I'm not watching it.