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Speculation: The Off-Season Thread Part VI - Are we there yet? (Grabovski to Caps, 1 yr)

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Drewbackatu said:
My so called "horribly formed opinions" of this team have been backed up by their lousy performances over the years or did we conveniently forget that we haven't won a cup since 1994 and we've gotten out of the 1st round only 4 times and the 2nd round only 1 time in the last 19 years.

Get a ****** clue!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I HATE this argument. Enlighten us, what exactly do the failures of past Rangers teams have to do with the current one? You think the fact that the Rangers missed the playoffs for 7 consecutive years in the late 90s/early 2000s, haven't won a cup in 19 years and only advanced those amount of times in 19 years has ANYTHING to do with our current team? Hell, our team is completely different from the 2011-12 team!

This mentality you and other jaded fans have, while understandable, is nothing but how you look at it. The current core has been working towards something for 3-4 seasons. However, you let failures from your 50+ years as a fan dictate how you feel about the current squad. It's just irritating to hear. Yes, the Rangers have disappointed all of us many times, but that has nothing to do with the upcoming season. Was Nash on the Rangers when they didn't win a playoff series for however many years in a 6 team league? Was Callahan the captain when we missed the playoffs those 7 years in a row? No. And sure, no cup in 19 years, but let's face it: only one team can win it all. In those 19 years only 11 teams have won a Stanley Cup. That leaves 19 teams who haven't. Does that mean we're not close? Absolutely not.

We all get discouraged as fans when things don't go our way (i.e win the cup) but we have to look at the current team and their chances. I like this group and depending on how they play under A.V, I think they have a shot at being contenders. What the Neil Smith Rangers did or what the early Sather Rangers did or what the Espo Rangers did means NOTHING to how the current Rangers will do. The only thing those things impact is your psyche as a fan. How YOU look at the team, not how the current team will perform.
 
Well said.

Without going into detail or debating the finer points, I will say that I'm totally psyched for this year. I have reasonable expectations that we may not reach, but I'm looking forward to the ride either way. I enjoyed last year, overall, even with the numerous "downs" and I certainly enjoyed 11-12 despite the loss to Jersey in the finals.

There's been a lot of disappointment and rough periods in years past, but I don't feel that way about the last few years and I'm very much looking forward to the future. It's unfortunate that so many of you don't feel that way, truly. It brings down the mood in the forum and it pretty much just has to suck for you guys as fans. For the rest of us, this is pretty fun.

I like this team. As much as I can without knowing them personally, I really do like a lot of the guys on the squad. Damn near all of them really. That means a lot to me as well... I can identify with this group in a sense. I feel for them. I'm happy when they win, or when someone hits an achievement, a milestone, even just a nice play. Not only for me as a fan, but for them too. In a weird way it's kinda like seeing a friend succeed. That, to me, is a huge part of it. Obviously success is another part and I'll never pretend I don't care about it, but I think we're on the right track and this is a fun group to watch.
 
Remaining UFAs and possible future destinations

GOALIES
Bryzgalov, Ilya » Russia??
Thomas, Tim » Retires??
DiPietro, Rick » Retires??
Theodore, Jose » Retires??/Backup
Hedberg, Johan » Retires??/Backup
Pickard, Chet » ??
Garon, Mathieu » Retires/Backup

DEFENSE
Hainsey, Ron » ??
Kaberle, Tomas » Europe??
Whitney, Ryan » ??
Kuba, Filip » Europe/Retires??
Gilbert, Tom » ??
Hamrlik, Roman » Europe/Retires??
Lydman, Toni » ??
White, Ian » ??
Poti, Tom » Europe/Retires??
Colaiacovo, Carlo » ??
Zanon, Greg » ??
Aucoin, Adrian » Retires??
Gill, Hal » Retires??
O'Byrne, Ryan » ??
Walker, Matt » ??
Redden, Wade » Retires??
Sauer, Michael » Retires :(
Martinek, Radek » ??
Eminger, Steve » ??
Clark, Brett » Retires??
Huskins, Kent » ??
Barker, Cam » ??
Woywitka, Jeff » ??
Vandermeer, Jim » ??
Exelby, Garnet » ?? Retires

FORWARDS
Connolly, Tim » ??
Selanne, Teemu » Anaheim
Morrow, Brenden » ??
Lombardi, Matthew » Europe
Cleary, Danny » Detroit
Sullivan, Steve » Retires??
Prospal, Vinny » ??
Gagne, Simon » ??
Malhotra, Manny » Retires??
Raymond, Mason » ??
Hejduk, Milan » Colorado??
Latendresse, Guillaume »??
Mueller, Peter » ??
Larose, Chad » Carolina??
Wellwood, Kyle » ??
Langenbrunner, Jamie » Retires??
Brunner, Damien » ??? Europe ???
Reasoner, Marty » Retires??
Kobasew, Chuck » ??
Brenner, Tyler » ??
Steckel, David » ??
Boyes, Brad » ??
Stewart, Anthony » ??
Hordichuk, Darcy » ??
Knuble, Mike » Retires?
Halpern, Jeff » Faceoff expert ??
Dvorak, Radek » ??
Mayers, Jamal » ?? Retires
Daugavins, Kaspars » ??
Gillies, Colton » ??
Pandolfo, Jay » ?? Retires
Kostopoulos, Tom » ??

These are the guys that are gonna get hurt the most $$$ wise (plus a few of the more recent signings) due to the new CBA. Saw this coming a year ago. Quite the long list of... hmmm... scrubs & reclamation projects...
 
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BBKers said:
GOALIES
Bryzgalov, Ilya » Russia??
Thomas, Tim » Retires??
DiPietro, Rick » Retires??
Theodore, Jose » Retires??/Backup
Hedberg, Johan » Retires??/Backup
Pickard, Chet » ??
Garon, Mathieu » Retires/Backup
Leighton, Michael » ??
Click to expand...

Leighton signed with KHL team Donbass
 
RFA list

While we are at it - here are the higher profile RFAs that have yet to resign. We have one player here as we all know...

Goalies
McCollum, Thomas »

Defense
Pietrangelo, Alex »
Cowen, Jared »
Franson, Cody »
Goncharov, Maxim »
Manning, Brandon »
Lalonde, Shawn »

FWDs
Kadri, Nazem »
Hodgson, Cody »
Burmistrov, Alexander »
Brown, J.T. »
Komarov, Leo »
Sweatt, Bill »
Boedker, Mikkel »
Bang, Daniel »
Rodin, Anton »
Johansson, Marcus »
Ullstrom, David »
Stepan, Derek »
Henrique, Adam »
McRae, Philip »
Grachev, Evgeny »
Vincour, Tomas »
Kubalik, Tomas »
 
The goalie tandem rankings

6. New York Rangers
Lundqvist, along with a random fan from the Madison Square Garden crowd, still might crack the top 10 goalie tandems in the NHL. The conversation for the game's best goalie starts with Lundqvist.

But Lundqvist and Martin Biron work well together, and Lundqvist has benefited from Biron's ability to ease the workload. Biron is capable of playing well for 20 games so that Lundqvist isn't worn out by the time the playoffs roll around. At some point down the road, the Rangers might want to work a younger goalie into the mix, but right now this duo is ideal.

Opposing goalie's breakdown: "Henrik Lundqvist is the best goaltender in the league. He carries that team on his back all the time. [Former coach John] Tortorella provided a good defensive system for him, but I don't think that's what made Lundqvist a great goaltender. Look at what he did for Sweden internationally. It doesn't matter where he plays, he's unbelievable. Martin Biron affords him the ability to have nights off to get the rest so that he can play at his highest level and not play tired all the time. I like the way those guys are paired up and I like that they both have great personalities off the ice as well."
Click to expand...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog...id/9591277/2013-14-ranking-top-goalie-tandems

Henrik was great under Tom Renney too. Tortorella and his shot blocking system didn't make Hank a great goaltender.

1-NJ
2-Ottawa
3-Ducks
4-Chicago
5-Toronto
6-Rangers
7-LA
8-Pittsburgh
9-STL
10-BOS

You can argue with some of the selections. It doesn't really matter. Some of the teams such as NJ,Anaheim,Toronto,STL and even Pitt don't know which goalie will be their #1.

Nash was effective with both Stepan and Richards at 5 on 5

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=479&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5

Look at McDonagh. He had 3 goals at even strength. Stralman was his D partner or was the player on the ice when he scored the goals. McD logged 511 minutes with Girardi at even strength. 288 minutes with Stralman. Maybe Vigneault and Samuelsson should break them up at times. Put Staal back with Girardi.
 
RangerBoy said:
The goalie tandem rankings



http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog...id/9591277/2013-14-ranking-top-goalie-tandems

Henrik was great under Tom Renney too. Tortorella and his shot blocking system didn't make Hank a great goaltender.

1-NJ
2-Ottawa
3-Ducks
4-Chicago
5-Toronto
6-Rangers
7-LA
8-Pittsburgh
9-STL
10-BOS

You can argue with some of the selections. It doesn't really matter. Some of the teams such as NJ,Anaheim,Toronto,STL and even Pitt don't know which goalie will be their #1.

Nash was effective with both Stepan and Richards at 5 on 5

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=479&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5

Look at McDonagh. He had 3 goals at even strength. Stralman was his D partner or was the player on the ice when he scored the goals. McD logged 511 minutes with Girardi at even strength. 288 minutes with Stralman. Maybe Vigneault and Samuelsson should break them up at times. Put Staal back with Girardi.
Click to expand...

McDonagh didn't just score 3 goals with Strålman but 8 of his 15 5v5 points. I don't think he would have held that incredible 1.66 P/60 rate playing 500+ minutes with Anton, but it is still very impressive.

But Strålman had that effect on everyone's game last season. He may not have scored a ton of points himself, but the Rangers owned possession and scored a lot with him on the ice.

Stepan scored 50+% of his 5v5 points in less than 30% of his total 5v5 time with Strålman. Callahan played slightly above 30% with Anton and scored 55% of his points with him. Nash seems to be the only significant scorer who could score about as well with any D-man.

Re: the article. What a joke! The overvalue the impact of the backup significantly. I mean Toronto ahead of the Rangers!?
 
See this is a classic example of where I think statistics can be overrated. We are talking about 3 goals. 3. 8 points. How were the goals scored? Did Stralman actually have a meaningful impact in setting them or the play up? Or is it just chance over a small sample size? Not saying its "useless" but it is one minuscule piece of information.
 
RangerBoy said:
The goalie tandem rankings



http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog...id/9591277/2013-14-ranking-top-goalie-tandems

Henrik was great under Tom Renney too. Tortorella and his shot blocking system didn't make Hank a great goaltender.

1-NJ
2-Ottawa
3-Ducks
4-Chicago
5-Toronto
6-Rangers
7-LA
8-Pittsburgh
9-STL
10-BOS

You can argue with some of the selections. It doesn't really matter. Some of the teams such as NJ,Anaheim,Toronto,STL and even Pitt don't know which goalie will be their #1.

Nash was effective with both Stepan and Richards at 5 on 5

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=479&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5

Look at McDonagh. He had 3 goals at even strength. Stralman was his D partner or was the player on the ice when he scored the goals. McD logged 511 minutes with Girardi at even strength. 288 minutes with Stralman. Maybe Vigneault and Samuelsson should break them up at times. Put Staal back with Girardi.
Click to expand...

Wow, Toronto ahead of the Rangers.
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
See this is a classic example of where I think statistics can be overrated. We are talking about 3 goals. 3. 8 points. How were the goals scored? Did Stralman actually have a meaningful impact in setting them or the play up? Or is it just chance over a small sample size? Not saying its "useless" but it is one minuscule piece of information.
Click to expand...

That is why I brought up that it was the same case for a plethora of other players. Granted, each with a small sample size.

But it is hardly a coincidence that he improved the possession and team GF for just about every player he played with. However, in many cases team GA also went up. Not in the case of McDonagh though where both players were better together than apart in all aspects.
 
PIM said:
First off, this is all speculation, just my opinions. But I really think my view on the Torts situation depends on who was complaining.

If it was Callahan, McDonagh, Boyle, Hagelin, Stepan, Girardi, any of those guys... Torts is one of the main reasons that they turned into the players they did and had the spots they had, some of them being slotted way above their talent level and played in key situations where they didn't belong. So for them to turn around and complain about him behind his back, that's pretty lame. Good luck getting those opportunities in the future.

If it was Nash, Hank, Kreider, Richards, Zuc, well that'd be more understandable. They were really at a point where they didn't owe Torts anything in my opinion, and there could be an argument that he was a detriment to how they were playing.
Click to expand...

When I look at that situation, I break it down differently -- between players that were around for the majority of a semi-successful '11-12 season vs. players that were not.

If the message and antics were getting old for the members of a team that actually accomplished something 2 seasons ago, then I can accept the situation a little more. These are the guys that laid it all on the line for Torts, and I'd trust their judgment a little more if they deemed the message and the attitude to not be working any more.

If any of the newcomers were the ones to go complaining to the GM, that makes me sick, and is indicative of an even bigger problem with this roster going forward. These are guys that havent won a damn thing in the NHL and, quite frankly, havent earned the right to jettison any coach.
 
Drewbackatu said:
I can't believe fans are still discussing the Tortorella situation 3 months after he was canned. As you have mentioned, our roster is flawed(hope I don't get tarred and feathered for that!); w/o getting into specifics, I don't see how a new coach is going to make our offense so much better than it's been in the past. Just my opinion, mind you!
Click to expand...

Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat it.

I find it interesting that the attacks levied against Tortorella are very similar to the attacks levied against Renney. Namely, they didnt field teams that produced enough offense.

The stark reality of a limited roster will hit any coach right between the eyes. Its easy for fans, with their 15 jerseys of the players they love so much, to turn a blind eye to their limitations.
 
Drewbackatu said:
I agree with you, especially as it relates to McIIrath. Btw, Saad was drafted the same year as Miller was and in so far as Neiderreiter is concerned, he always produced well in the AHL; it was obvious he needed a fresh start!
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So what you just did was make an excuse for Niederiter because he has been absolute crap and then omit any rational thinking when discussing McIlrath or Miller. Odd.
 
The jury is still out on virtually all the draft picks since 2008, even Del Zotto.

If you want to attack Ranger drafting, you've got a wealth of material in the 35 years prior.
 
Blue Blooded said:
That is why I brought up that it was the same case for a plethora of other players. Granted, each with a small sample size.

But it is hardly a coincidence that he improved the possession and team GF for just about every player he played with. However, in many cases team GA also went up. Not in the case of McDonagh though where both players were better together than apart in all aspects.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Interesting. I appreciate you presenting a balanced argument. Would seem to lead credence to the idea that McD is good enough defensively to cover up for playing with a more offensive partner. Again still a small sample size but worth a look. Is this adjusted at all based on the quality of competition they were seeing? I can't remember them ever being paired together except for odd times resulting from a partial line change or a Girardi/Staal/DZ penalty. McD-G obviously logged the most minutes against top opposition. So I would expect that they on average would possess the puck less and create less 5 on 5 focused on d vs an odd time when McD/Stralman were paired together with (I assume) the specific goal of pushing the pace.
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
Gotcha. Interesting. I appreciate you presenting a balanced argument. Would seem to lead credence to the idea that McD is good enough defensively to cover up for playing with a more offensive partner. Again still a small sample size but worth a look. Is this adjusted at all based on the quality of competition they were seeing? I can't remember them ever being paired together except for odd times resulting from a partial line change or a Girardi/Staal/DZ penalty. McD-G obviously logged the most minutes against top opposition. So I would expect that they on average would possess the puck less and create less 5 on 5 focused on d vs an odd time when McD/Stralman were paired together with (I assume) the specific goal of pushing the pace.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I try very hard not to have an agenda.

The WOWY charts that I use (and RagnerBoy linked to) does unfortunately not contain QoC information. You can have them adjusted for zone starts and restricted to close game situations though.
 
Drewbackatu said:
Exactly dude; you catch on fast! McIIrath was drafted 3 freakin years ago and Miller 2 yrs ago.(#15 or 30 spots before Brandon Saad who was a calder finalist last year).

Don't you think it's about time McIIrath(who was picked #10 for whatever reason) made the Rangers and was given the opportunity to show what he is?

Sorry, I'm not as patient as you and some of the other fans are especially when I see other players getting drafted later by other teams around the league who are already playing in the NHL and in some cases making their mark.
Click to expand...

You're on thin ice here as usual. That's some massive cherry picking when you use Brandon Saad (a forward who was left off the WJC team in 2010; the Hawks made a good pick) to make a point about McI's development.

the other defenseman selected in the first round of the 2010 draft were:

Gubrandson
Fowler
Gormley
Forbert
Tinordi
Pysyk

Gubrandson plays on a terrible team and has been up and down even though he was a top 5 pick. Fowler has been underwhelming to say the least and the rest of the selections are not regular NHL players yet.

Defenseman by nature take more time to get ready for the big stage, generally. If McI gets some time with the big team this year he is right on schedule. Anyone with sense can see that.
 
Some teams swear by the hockey stats. Doug Risebrough hired Boston Globe sports writer Chris Snow to be their stats guy. Snow was familar with sports stats from covering the Red Sox and Theo Epstein. Fletcher replaced Risebrough and they maintained the stats system. Snow is now with the Flames. AV likes to give his offensive players more starts in the offensive zone. The Sedins had 65%-66% of the shifts start in the offensive zone. Nash was at 60% last season. Using Nash in the same manner as the twins will result in a few more shots on goals and probably a few more points.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
McDonagh didnt have to wait for the big bucks. The difference is the lack of arbitration rights for Stepan.

Stepan can hold out for as long as he'd like but, in the end, hes getting that bridge deal.
Click to expand...

McDonagh had all of the leverage. Sather also said the plan is to negotiate an extension with Stepan at the end of the first season. I am sure Gorton has communicated that to Stepan and his agents. The cap will be much higher for 15-16 than $64.3M.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat it.

I find it interesting that the attacks levied against Tortorella are very similar to the attacks levied against Renney. Namely, they didnt field teams that produced enough offense.

The stark reality of a limited roster will hit any coach right between the eyes. Its easy for fans, with their 15 jerseys of the players they love so much, to turn a blind eye to their limitations.
Click to expand...

We also have more talent now compared to Renney.. so yes there is a reason to believe Torts was holding the offense back at least some, guess we will find out
 
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