Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

[Beef Invictus]

As a post-dog walk addendum, what the false dichotomy people don't seem to understand is that the Flyers have been half ass (quarter ass?) rebuilding for most of the last 6-7 years, not all of it intentional. Minus that vomitous 2021 draft. They're in a weird position where they are loaded with potential middle 6, bottom 6, bottom 4 defense guys. You don't even need the word "potential" for some. And a few possible upper lineup guys, short of elite, if they can hit developmental ceilings (this is the part where I pause for laughter).

Most of these failed rebuild teams, or even the Edmontons which are in their own tier, can't supplement their top players for shit. I don't think anyone, without a motive, looks at the Flyers youth as bad. There's quite a bit of good; there's just not any elite. This isn't a ground zero situation. If anything, a focused short term effort could do the trick, while the ELCs sort themselves out. But if they keep waiting multiple years, and don't try to offload a few players in the process, that goes right out the window. Nothing about this offseason is telling me it's not out the window.

They needed to start last off-season at the latest to ensure the timing worked. They won't start for another several or even until Clarke finally croaks.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

When it comes to hockey front offices, competency generally shows in slow drips. A marginal addition here, a smart subtraction there. A move not made is even tougher to weave into the narrative but often just as important. Luck hits like a lightning bolt and gives you undeniable, clearly defined moments.

 

[freakydallas13]

People love throwing out "we could end up being the Sabres or Senators!" as an argument against a rebuild, completely ignoring the fact that both those teams finished ahead of the Flyers in the standings.

Two rebuilding teams are currently better than this management's version of "being competitive". Chew on that for a moment, then tell me again how much pride this team has.

 

[Beef Invictus]

People love throwing out "we could end up being the Sabres or Senators!" as an argument against a rebuild, completely ignoring the fact that both those teams finished ahead of the Flyers in the standings.

Two rebuilding teams are currently better than this management's version of "being competitive". Chew on that for a moment, then tell me again how much pride this team has.

The Sabres barely have a scouting department and the Sens until recently were cursed with the second worst owner in sports.

Flyers are still in worse shape.

 

[tucson83]

People love throwing out "we could end up being the Sabres or Senators!" as an argument against a rebuild, completely ignoring the fact that both those teams finished ahead of the Flyers in the standings.

Two rebuilding teams are currently better than this management's version of "being competitive". Chew on that for a moment, then tell me again how much pride this team has.

forget it, where's your proof that it works? what teams have won cups with just drafting players?

 

[Kelmitchell2]

forget it, where's your proof that it works? what teams have won cups with just drafting players?

Penguins, Chicago, Tampa, Boston (when they won) Colorado if they win, I mean did you even look into it before you came up with this response ?

 

[deadhead]

As a post-dog walk addendum, what the false dichotomy people don't seem to understand is that the Flyers have been half ass (quarter ass?) rebuilding for most of the last 6-7 years, not all of it intentional. Minus that vomitous 2021 draft. They're in a weird position where they are loaded with potential middle 6, bottom 6, bottom 4 defense guys. You don't even need the word "potential" for some. And a few possible upper lineup guys, short of elite, if they can hit developmental ceilings (this is the part where I pause for laughter).

If Torts can raise the game of a few of these guys, they're a couple top guys from being a top team.
You bring in a young 2C, a young RHD, maybe another fast LW, and that's enough.

And only the center really needs to be elite, if the other two are very good you'll have two solid top two lines and a bunch of guys that to build a top flight bottom six. And you can get very good guys in trades and later in the first/second round or even get lucky.

And players emerging can make other players expendable in trades, if Brink is a top 6 RW, if Foerster is a first rate sniper, If Andrae can play behind Sanheim and York . . .

The problem is getting the FO to stop with the "we're going to be competitive" mantra and shift to "we're going to build a great team" and use all those resources to do so.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Torts can raise the game of a few of these guys, they're a couple top guys from being a top team.
You bring in a young 2C, a young RHD, maybe another fast LW, and that's enough.

And only the center really needs to be elite, if the other two are very good you'll have two solid top two lines and a bunch of guys that to build a top flight bottom six. And you can get very good guys in trades and later in the first/second round or even get lucky.

And players emerging can make other players expendable in trades, if Brink is a top 6 RW, if Foerster is a first rate sniper, If Andrae can play behind Sanheim and York . . .

The problem is getting the FO to stop with the "we're going to be competitive" mantra and shift to "we're going to build a great team" and use all those resources to do so.

You're drastically understating the massive damage Fletcher has done in 4 years. They are more than a few guys taking steps and a couple more on top of that away.

Hell, even what you've stated they need is far easier said than done, especially without an entire organizational overhaul. Tortorella is a drop of water in a bucket of diarrhea, and he's not even clean water with how fast the league is running from his style.

 

[deadhead]

The only damage was the 1st and (2) 2nds.
Ghost, Voracek, Giroux were history in any case, NAK is a nothing burger (scratched last night). Patrick, Myers and Friedman are marginal NHL players.
Risto's $5M doesn't matter if they're not FA hunting, which they shouldn't be.

They can shift to a short-term rebuild if the FO was willing, they'd refrain from FA acquisitions, other than one year deals to TDL flippable players, they'd focus on playing their prospects and hunting RFA bargains.

They have enough young talent on the roster and in LHV this year to fuel a quick turnaround, the problem is getting the PTB to buy into that strategy.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The only damage was the 1st and (2) 2nds.
Ghost, Voracek, Giroux were history in any case, NAK is a nothing burger (scratched last night).
Risto's $5M doesn't matter if they're not FA hunting, which they shouldn't be.

They can shift to a short-term rebuild if the FO was willing, they'd refrain from FA acquistions, other than one year deal to flippable players, they'd focus on playing their prospects and hunting RFA bargains.

They have enough young talent on the roster and in LHV this year to fuel a quick turnaround, the problem is getting the PTB to buy into that strategy.

You just listed substantial damage, plus you left out numerous other damaging moves and losses as well as their failure of a development approach.

A team does not get into this state with this bad of a cap situation without there having been a lot of terrible mistakes all over the place.

 

[freakydallas13]

forget it, where's your proof that it works? what teams have won cups with just drafting players?

1) A team going into a rebuild doesn't suddenly lose the ability to make trades or sign free agents. One could argue it actually helps sign free agents, seeing as the team probably has more cap space.

2) You didn't acknowledge the fact that 2 teams people point to as being in rebuild hell are currently better than the Flyers, who are "competing". What do you think this means?

Why am I even bothering replying to the participation trophy brigade, this is a waste of everyone's time.

John Tortorella is a hockey coach. Yay team.

 

[tucson83]

Penguins, Chicago, Tampa, Boston (when they won) Colorado if they win, I mean did you even look into it before you came up with this response ?

just drafting and not trading and signing fas, what team has done that that's completely organic? those teams had players from other teams.

 

[TheKingPin]

The Sabres, Sens, and Coyotes suck because they're badly managed.

Not to mention they are all headed in the right direction. In a few years when they are looking good, I sure there will be a jump to a different cluster.

 

[DancingPanther]

As a post-dog walk addendum, what the false dichotomy people don't seem to understand is that the Flyers have been half ass (quarter ass?) rebuilding for most of the last 6-7 years, not all of it intentional. Minus that vomitous 2021 draft. They're in a weird position where they are loaded with potential middle 6, bottom 6, bottom 4 defense guys. You don't even need the word "potential" for some. And a few possible upper lineup guys, short of elite, if they can hit developmental ceilings (this is the part where I pause for laughter).

Most of these failed rebuild teams, or even the Edmontons which are in their own tier, can't supplement their top players for shit. I don't think anyone, without a motive, looks at the Flyers youth as bad. There's quite a bit of good; there's just not any elite. This isn't a ground zero situation. If anything, a focused short term effort could do the trick, while the ELCs sort themselves out. But if they keep waiting multiple years, and don't try to offload a few players in the process, that goes right out the window. Nothing about this offseason is telling me it's not out the window.

How was the walk though

 

[Magua]

How was the walk though

Windy. But she pooped.

 

[DancingPanther]

Windy. But she pooped.

She is so great

 

[flyers0909]

Of course drafting doesn't matter, nothing matters!

 

[Tripod]

The Sabres, Sens, and Coyotes suck because they're badly managed.

It's why we suck too!

 

[SnS]

Jesus Christ.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

This thread has gone off the rails. Like plunging into the Grand Canyon off.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

This thread has gone off the rails. Like plunging into the Grand Canyon off.

Honestly, with him as the confirmed coach, it's literally a wait and see at this point. I know my feelings on it and I don't like it that much, but we'll see how it all goes.

 

[Tripod]

Imagine thinking the Flyers are a young #2C, a young RHD and a fast LW away from being a top team.



Dead logic right there!

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Honestly, with him as the confirmed coach, it's literally a wait and see at this point. I know my feelings on it and I don't like it that much, but we'll see how it all goes.

I don’t like it either honestly. I just can’t wait for the draft and free agency to get here. Hopefully the pounding your head against a wall arguing with the same 2 or 3 people will stop. Or slow down, so we can talk about something else. Maybe.

 

[bobbythebrain]

You're drastically understating the massive damage Fletcher has done in 4 years. They are more than a few guys taking steps and a couple more on top of that away.

Hell, even what you've stated they need is far easier said than done, especially without an entire organizational overhaul. Tortorella is a drop of water in a bucket of diarrhea, and he's not even clean water with how fast the league is running from his style.

I listened to the interview and must say I'm impressed. Hopefully it's on the up and up, so some takeaways
-Torts does get respect from a ton of players also. Compound that w/ him saying he acknowledges he has to evolve there, maybe we get the best of both worlds. Players respect him while accepting his hard ass style
-A highly important point he made is that he understands he's not an offensive guy. So admitting he is looking for help w/ that from his A/or A's hopefully shows that his admitted evolution is real
-I love that the idea is to protect Carter. Not only does he need it, but if himself takes a huge step, the team definitely has a chance to be competitive
- Wasn't impressed w/ Flutch, as usual, but hopefully Torts does have enough power in GM decisions and stops Chuck from constantly shooting this team in foot
-Hayes reign of power is of no more. Hopefully he stops meddling with who we get as personnel

 

[oldwpgjet]

Overall, I think you win a lot more games, have the odd discontented player that you might have to trade and Carter Hart will be a beast in net.