The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

[Weltschmerz]

Give me a break..At 19 I was making life and death decisions

glad you survived it

 

[Paxon]

Give me a break..At 19 I was making life and death decisions, I was 100% responsible for everything I said and did.. Just how much rope you want to give this guy..Yes man..yes adult..

How many more coaches have to tell him,half ass play is not good enough and having a big mouth ice icing on the professional cake..

He can go back and play with boys and score 100 goals a season and think he is great, maybe those boys will tell him he is a great team player,with his agent that is..

If I was him I'd have my mouth shut and be hanging on Zemgus Girgensons every move..But then I was a success at what I did..

Take it easy champ

 

[dugman]

Take it easy champ

Who are you, calling Doogie Howzer "champ"? (personally, I wouldn't hire the 19 year old version of me to deliver pizzas....)

 

[B U F F A L O]

Because this is the NHL. Nobody is given anything. They are supposed to earn it.

That argument would make more sense if we werent the 30th place team in the NHL and play Ville Leino when hes healthy.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

That argument would make more sense if we werent the 30th place team in the NHL and play Ville Leino when hes healthy.

It's about what's best for him...Not if he is better than players on this roster.

 

[haseoke39]

That argument would make more sense if we werent the 30th place team in the NHL and play Ville Leino when hes healthy.

I'm with you. You could make a good argument that half of our forward corps doesn't belong in the NHL. He wouldn't be the worst forward on this team.

Ideally, he'd have been left in juniors last year right on through, but once he's up, it's more important that you develop him than that your bottom six has the most theoretically deserving guys it can.

 

[SackTastic]

That argument would make more sense if we werent the 30th place team in the NHL and play Ville Leino when hes healthy.

I'm with you. You could make a good argument that half of our forward corps doesn't belong in the NHL. He wouldn't be the worst forward on this team.

Ideally, he'd have been left in juniors last year right on through, but once he's up, you develop him.

These arguments stem from the assumption that having a younger, skilled player playing top line minutes and being completely overmatched by playing against the best players in the world every night is the best way to 'develop' skills.

Unfortunately, that is false.

 

[haseoke39]

These arguments stem from the assumption that having a younger, skilled player playing top line minutes and being completely overmatched by playing against the best players in the world every night is the best way to 'develop' skills.

Unfortunately, that is false.

No, it doesn't. He'd be best off in Rochester, obviously. He'd be better off in Europe. How much better off he may or may not be in juniors depends on what skills he's focused on developing there. I'm neither arguing for or against any of those options.

I'm just saying that once he's here, you play him. You don't have him sitting in the press box for half a season. THAT is the worst way to develop him.

 

[Zip15]

That argument would make more sense if we werent the 30th place team in the NHL and play Ville Leino when hes healthy.

And this is where it starts going in circles and people on either side of the issue start talking past each other.

"He should be getting 15 minutes per game with better talent and PP time."

"But he hasn't earned those minutes. He's overmatched."

"But Leino! D'agostini! John Scott! Matt Ellis! Linus Omark! Those guys haven't earned their minutes, either!!!!"

"Those guys are done developing, while Grigo isn't. He shouldn't be force-fed minutes when he can be developing elsewhere."

And around and around we go...

 

[tsujimoto74]

It's about what's best for him...Not if he is better than players on this roster.

How is it not best for Grigo to be playing hockey somewhere? Kind pof need to be doing that to develop.

 

[joshjull]

How is it not best for Grigo to be playing hockey somewhere? Kind pof need to be doing that to develop.

He decided to not report. He is not playing right now because of a choice HE made. Though obviously his agent has had a hand in this as well.

The kid does not belong in the NHL right now. The only other option is junior so thats where he was sent. No other player on the roster is relevant to where he belongs. Other than for some posters to grind their axes against players they don't like.

 

[B U F F A L O]

And this is where it starts going in circles and people on either side of the issue start talking past each other.

"He should be getting 15 minutes per game with better talent and PP time."

"But he hasn't earned those minutes. He's overmatched."

"But Leino! D'agostini! John Scott! Matt Ellis! Linus Omark! Those guys haven't earned their minutes, either!!!!"

"Those guys are done developing, while Grigo isn't. He shouldn't be force-fed minutes when he can be developing elsewhere."

And around and around we go...

Yeah I know. Theres always two sides. But those against the "earn your ice time" crowd arent spewing hypocritical opinions that can be applied to just under half the team.

In my opinion, the problem with Grigorenko is a total mental issue, not a physical issue. He has all the skills in the world to do well in the NHL, its his brain that needs developing. I dont think he would develop that in the Q any better than here in the NHL. He has work ethic issues but whats going to make him work harder playing in the Q? His development is hurting by not playing at all, being a healthy scratch, having promises made to him that arent kept, or by asking him to contribute but playing him with Scott and Ellis. Those kind of things mess with your head as a player, especially as a 19 year old.

He shouldve been playing in the Q all of last season and never seen an NHL game. If he never tasted the NHL, scored his first NHL goal, scored his first multi point game in the NHL, he wouldnt have been so reluctant to go back down to the Q... and lets not pretend that the Sabres think the Q is what is best for him too, they'd prefer to have him in Rochester.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

How is it not best for Grigo to be playing hockey somewhere? Kind pof need to be doing that to develop.

I'm not saying he shouldn't play anywhere...I am saying what is best for him is to not be playing in the NHL because he is physically too weak to be going up against NHL Defensemen and lacks the foot speed/tenacity to make up for that deficiency.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah I know. Theres always two sides. But those against the "earn your ice time" crowd arent spewing hypocritical opinions that can be applied to just under half the team.

In my opinion, the problem with Grigorenko is a total mental issue, not a physical issue. He has all the skills in the world to do well in the NHL, its his brain that needs developing. I dont think he would develop that in the Q any better than here in the NHL. He has work ethic issues but whats going to make him work harder playing in the Q? His development is hurting by not playing at all, being a healthy scratch, having promises made to him that arent kept, or by asking him to contribute but playing him with Scott and Ellis. Those kind of things mess with your head as a player, especially as a 19 year old.

He shouldve been playing in the Q all of last season and never seen an NHL game. If he never tasted the NHL, scored his first NHL goal, scored his first multi point game in the NHL, he wouldnt have been so reluctant to go back down to the Q... and lets not pretend that the Sabres think the Q is what is best for him too, they'd prefer to have him in Rochester.

Earn your ice time? He shouldn't even be on the roster. The kid is not NHL ready and hasn't been since Regier started his stupidity of forcing him onto the roster.

The problem is you and a few others don't seem to grasp that how sucky current vets on the team are is utterly irrelevant to whether or not Grigs belongs in the NHL. He doesn't. So bashing Leino or any other favorite whipping boy doesn't change that fact in any way and shows someone is missing the point.

 

[Zip15]

Yeah I know. Theres always two sides. But those against the "earn your ice time" crowd arent spewing hypocritical opinions that can be applied to just under half the team.

I disagree. Just under half the team is not 19 years old and in the nascent stages of their professional development.

In my opinion, the problem with Grigorenko is a total mental issue, not a physical issue. He has all the skills in the world to do well in the NHL, its his brain that needs developing.

He has a lot of offensive skill, but he lacks a lot of other skills needed to be successful in the league. Right now, the NHL is too fast and too good for him. He's over his head. I think even his biggest supporters would have to concede that point right now.

I dont think he would develop that in the Q any better than here in the NHL. He has work ethic issues but whats going to make him work harder playing in the Q? His development is hurting by not playing at all, being a healthy scratch, having promises made to him that arent kept, or by asking him to contribute but playing him with Scott and Ellis. Those kind of things mess with your head as a player, especially as a 19 year old.

Nobody is disputing that he's been mishandled. But, as others have said, two wrongs don't make a right, and he shouldn't be refusing to report simply because of that fact. He needs to play. Playing in the Q is better than eating press box popcorn in the NHL.

He shouldve been playing in the Q all of last season and never seen an NHL game. If he never tasted the NHL, scored his first NHL goal, scored his first multi point game in the NHL, he wouldnt have been so reluctant to go back down to the Q... and lets not pretend that the Sabres think the Q is what is best for him too, they'd prefer to have him in Rochester.

I believe they've said as much. That's not an option, though. And of the available options, him playing in the Q is preferable to him sitting in the press box or getting completely overmatched in the NHL.

 

[SackTastic]

No, it doesn't. He'd be best off in Rochester, obviously. He'd be better off in Europe. How much better off he may or may not be in juniors depends on what skills he's focused on developing there. I'm neither arguing for or against any of those options.

I'm just saying that once he's here, you play him. You don't have him sitting in the press box for half a season. THAT is the worst way to develop him.

He's better off playing.

You don't play the guy just because he's here. Grigs being outplayed and outworked no matter who he plays with or where doesn't help. Neither does the press box.

So you move him down the the next highest level he can play at to get lots of icetime, you have a scout there, and you give him feedback on what he needs to work on consistently. That's how you develop.

When he's eligible for Rochester, you bring him there and do the same thing. Rinse and repeat until his skills are NHL ready.

One could make a valid argument that Grig's is hurting his own development by refusing to play MORE than the the Sabres did bouncing him around. But, we shall see.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

He's reporting after all:

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 3m
The Sabres' Mikhail Grogorenko will indeed report to the Quebec Remparts.

https://twitter.com/BuffNewsVogl/status/422565206481702912

 

[sabresandcanucks]

He's reporting after all:


https://twitter.com/BuffNewsVogl/status/422565206481702912

So ends this chapter of "Grigorenkogate"...lol

Good to see the organization and the kid came to an understanding...it was my thought that he just needed a good sit down from the boss to explain why this was happening and what the plan is for him moving forward to put this to bed.

 

[Jacob582]

He should fire his agent. How did this bad PR help him in any way. He is reporting anyway. Unless, Murray told him he would try to trade him. If that is what he and his agent wanted.

 

[ZZamboni]

Well hallelujah!

Logic prevails!

 

[sabresandcanucks]

He should fire his agent. How did this bad PR help him in any way. He is reporting anyway. Unless, Murray told him he would try to trade him. If that is what he and his agent wanted.

This is likely what occurred...Murray and Patty spoke to him and his agent, said they plan to have him playing in the AHL once the season is over in the Q...expert him to have a good chance to make the club next season if he trains hard, bulks up, plays a better game in the defensive zone. They respect him and admire his talent...yadda yadda yadda (build his confidence up) now lets get to work.

 

[Jacob582]

Good to see the organization and the kid came to an understanding...it was my thought that he just needed a good sit down from the boss to explain why this was happening and what the plan is for him moving forward to put this to bed.

Well, Lafontaine had already met with him for close to 30 minutes before the assignment.

The message now probably was: we can't trade you and we can't recall you. T is non-negotiable.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Great to hear he came to his senses. Hopefully he finishes strong in the Q. Get this kids development back on track.

 

[Zman5778]

Well hallelujah!

Logic prevails!

This. Now hopefully the kid bears down, tears up the Q, comes back and goes to tear up Rochester

 

[Jame]

oh good... someone talked some sense into him, and he realized he was being an idiot