The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

[Tompa8989*]

So... ignorance is bliss, I guess. You are acting really childish.. Lower level leagues are designed to help players incubate. No one said anything about grinding. You aren't being fair. Earning a spot means playing responsible enough to earn more ice time, and to show improved skills that are enough to show the coach and staff that you are ready to step forward.

So I take it you haven't watched a single Sabres game this season with Grigorenko in the line up and you are just here to troll.

Got it.

So scoring 139 points in 92 games isn't showing you are too good for the QMJHL? I belive it's worse to let a player play in aleague that is inferior to him than a league that is a little to good but at least you get a chance to grwo every game.
That's what i belive and that is why Sweden has become top of the world in u-20.
it isnt developing to play against opponents that is kids in comparison. The only way to get better is to compete with opponents that are better than you. You see that in every sport in the world. You play against an opponent that are better than you, but not so good that you are dominated and i don't think Grigorenko is being dominated by opponents in NHL.

I have watched a couple, unfortunately i work nights 6 nights a week and in local time that's when the NHL games are played. But i download a bunch of games every second day or so and there has been a couple of sabres games. But has he been given top 6 time? I don't think so. It's hard to prove if you are playing on the 4th checking line.

 

[DeadGhost]

He did earn it. He played better and did up his motor and was still sat. Was it where it needed to be? Of course not..but it was an improvement What kind of message is that sending?

Kid gets Fs for half the year then get's Cs the second half. You can't let him pass the class just because he improved.

Better =/= good enough

 

[Beerz]

Okay? Care to elaborate?

Not everyone agrees that "rushing" players hurts their development. A players development is mostly determined by the player themselves. Nolan and Co made the situation worse.

 

[Beerz]

Kid gets Fs for half the year then get's Cs the second half. You can't let him pass the class just because he improved.

Better =/= good enough

You don't kick him out of class either.

 

[DeadGhost]

You don't kick him out of class either.

You send him to a remedial program (the Q).

 

[slip]

What reward was there with him being a healthy scratch most of the time?

Nolan wasn't going to gift a guy with motor issues ice time. It's not in his DNA.

If you wanted a coach to do that, then don't fire Rolston.

And on a separate note, this is precisely why Nolan is the wrong guy to guide the Sabres though this difficult transition. If this team is unprepared or unwilling to handle youthful inconsistency, it's gonna be a rough couple of years.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

So scoring 139 points in 92 games isn't showing you are too good for the QMJHL? I belive it's worse to let a player play in aleague that is inferior to him than a league that is a little to good but at least you get a chance to grwo every game.
That's what i belive and that is why Sweden has become top of the world in u-20.
it isnt developing to play against opponents that is kids in comparison. The only way to get better is to compete with opponents that are better than you. You see that in every sport in the world. You play against an opponent that are better than you, but not so good that you are dominated and i don't think Grigorenko is being dominated by opponents in NHL.

I have watched a couple, unfortunately i work nights 6 nights a week and in local time that's when the NHL games are played. But i download a bunch of games every second day or so and there has been a couple of sabres games. But has he been given top 6 time? I don't think so. It's hard to prove if you are playing on the 4th checking line.

When he came up, he was still pretty invisible. He needs to improve in all aspects of the game. He was still slow too. Training counts as well.

 

[Beerz]

You send him to a remedial program (the Q).

Again..for me..this isn't about sending him to the Q .. the damage was done before today.

 

[jfb392]

So scoring 139 points in 92 games isn't showing you are too good for the QMJHL?

No, that does not show that he was too good for the QMJHL.

I'm speaking of the time they shut him down..and just let him rot. That was the mistake. Not the actual sending him to Jrs.

The period of time between his last game with the Sabres and when he left for the Russian World Junior camp was not that large, so he wasn't rotting.
They did not send him back to junior immediately so that they could take advantage of a loophole in the import limit that would allow the Remparts to have three on their roster rather than two.

 

[Kyndig]

Grigorenko was getting TOI/G close to what Larsson, Omark, and Porter have gotten.

He also got close to a minute per game on the PP.

Larsson and Omark don't get enough TOI either, so glad you pointed that out.

Minute per game on the PP? I honestly don't recall this at all, sounds like a statistical mistake to me. What I do remember is him gettin a PP assist to Vanek, two games later scratched. Maybe he was primarily playing with Leino on the PP which would explain everything.

 

[Beerz]

No, that does not show that he was too good for the QMJHL.

The period of time between his last game with the Sabres and when he left for the Russian World Junior camp was not that large, so he wasn't rotting.
They did not send him back to junior immediately so that they could take advantage of a loophole in the import limit that would allow the Remparts to have three on their roster rather than two.

He played 3 games under Nolan. 3

That is rotting.

 

[Samsonite23]

Not everyone agrees that "rushing" players hurts their development. A players development is mostly determined by the player themselves. Nolan and Co made the situation worse.

Obviously the players have the most to do with it. I would say that most of the time rushing players does hurt their development; just my opinion. But it's not like he wasn't given a chance. I think it's possible to play yourself into the nhl like you're saying, but you have to have a rare work ethic and physical makeup for being a teenager which grigs doesn't have. Ala grigs

 

[Jim Bob]

He did earn it. He played better and did up his motor and was still sat. Was it where it needed to be? Of course not..but it was an improvement What kind of message is that sending?

Really?

I must have missed these breakout games. I remember there being one or two games where Grigorenko wasn't invisible. That's hardly enough to say he earned more ice time and a larger role.

Plus, it's obvious with Nolan wanting the other kids out of here that a kid like Grigorenko wasn't going to get gifted more ice time.

 

[jfb392]

He played 3 games under Nolan. 3

That is rotting.

He played three games out of a possible ten before leaving for Russia on December 8th.
I'd hardly call that rotting.

 

[Beerz]

Obviously the players have the most to do with it. I would say that most of the time rushing players does hurt their development; just my opinion. But it's not like he wasn't given a chance. I think it's possible to play yourself into the nhl like you're saying, but you have to have a rare work ethic and physical makeup for being a teenager which grigs doesn't have. Ala grigs

True about working your way up to the NHL...but this wasn't Grigs fault. That was a Darcy screw up. Nolan and Co compounded the issue by placing winning over his development (playing) .. You can still make the kid work for his ice time but they didn't give him a shot.. He played well some games but it didn't matter..he ended up being benched regardless...or his 1st screw up he was bennched.

This doesn't mean Grigs bares no fault.. I don't think he'll ever have the work ethic or right attitude to be a positive influence on this team but..still Nolan screwed up.

 

[BloFan4Life]

This whole compete nonsense is just annoying.

Let's be honest, if the kid was putting the puck in the net and setting up teammates, no one would give two craps on how much energy he is supposedly putting up on the ice. Grigs isn't the type of player that is going to look like he is buzzing around the ice. He plays a very simple game where he picks his spots.

People acting like he doesn't care out there are just wrong. The kid plays a certain type of game and he needs to see the ice.

To me he is like CJ Spiller. Spiller will go backwards on 75% of his carries, but then he will break a huge one off. Grigs will look invisible for 90% of his shifts, but then he will make some great plays and look unstoppable. He needs to the ice time to get to those great plays, just like Spiller needs the carries to get the breakout plays.

 

[Beerz]

Really?

I must have missed these breakout games. I remember there being one or two games where Grigorenko wasn't invisible. That's hardly enough to say he earned more ice time and a larger role.

Plus, it's obvious with Nolan wanting the other kids out of here that a kid like Grigorenko wasn't going to get gifted more ice time.

There were no "breakout" games. But he did have games where he improved..and isn't that what we were looking for?

 

[Samsonite23]

True about working your way up to the NHL...but this wasn't Grigs fault. That was a Darcy screw up. Nolan and Co compounded the issue by placing winning over his development (playing) .. You can still make the kid work for his ice time but they didn't give him a shot.. He played well some games but it didn't matter..he ended up being benched regardless...or his 1st screw up he was bennched.

This doesn't mean Grigs bares no fault.. I don't think he'll ever have the work ethic or right attitude to be a positive influence on this team but..still Nolan screwed up.

I agree to disagree, but it's all opinion.

 

[Moskau]

This is a fan base that though he was going to break out this season because he played one good game out of 25 at the end of last season against an average team.

 

[Beerz]

He played three games out of a possible ten before leaving for Russia on December 8th.
I'd hardly call that rotting.

Hmm.. I thought it was more games than that..but still my point remains he wasn't treated very well...(old regime and new regime)

 

[JLewyB]

As others have said, in a vacuum, I would keep him in the NHL vs sending him down. His areas of weakness--strength, compete and skating(both speed and balance)--can be improved more in Buffalo than in the Q. But you can't gift him ice time and set a precedent for others to try and play hardball then get what they want. To say, it's best for Grig's development is wrong, IMO.

Even though it's too late to do so, I think they could have kept him on the roster but made it clear that he wasn't going to play at all. He and Dawn could have worked all day to get faster at skating and he could have hit the gym from time and time as well. Almost like Aaron Rodgers and Steve McNair getting time to develop behind their respective starting QBs.

 

[Beerz]

Anyways...it's time to move on from the kid...

 

[Ron C.]

I had my choice of a Grigorenko jersey or a Girgenson jersey last year. I picked the wrong one.

 

[Kyndig]

This is a fan base that though he was going to break out this season because he played one good game out of 25 at the end of last season against an average team.

They probably thought he would be playing with hockey players and not goons.

 

[flyingpig]

So much drama in this thread. This will sort itself out one way one another. I hope the kid develops and does so with Buffalo. Too early to call him a bust. Too early to say that he is a spoiled brat. Blame can be shared by everyone. I hope the kid pulls it together and moves forward. For the most part, he has said all the right things up to this point. I understand he is frustrated and concerned about his career. That is cool. His actions are wrong.