The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

[jfb392]

Out of curiosity, who is his agent and does he have a history of being a hard ass?

His agent is Jay Grossman, who represents a lot of Russian players.
I don't think he's really that much of a troublemaker or anything, as I don't believe he represents his clients in Russia.
He got into a spat with Mark Gandler (stay away from his clients, as he is a certified agent in both the NHL and KHL and uses them as leverage against each other) a decade ago when Gandler accused him of poaching his clients..


Also, Grigorenko not wanting to go to junior really isn't new:

Selon @kathleenlavoie Grigo refuserait de se présenter a Qc. Ca va dans le sens de ce qu il m'a dit dimanche dernier a Malmö en Suède

http://twitter.com/StephRDSJunior/status/422077688963416064

He told media at the WJC the same thing.

 

[Jim Bob]

If he has top 6 talent and can be played in the top six and puts up comparable numbers to zemgus, to me that's important.

The poster said that this was setting the rebuild back 5 years.

I don't believe that he's THAT important to the rebuild. Especially if the Sabres can get Reinhart or McDavid or Eichel....

 

[Sean McG]

I guess Tim Murray can't say he doesn't want to be in Buffalo, right? It's such a weird situation all around. I wonder if they somehow approach the NHL or QMJHL about asking permission for him to go to the AHL. The facebook statement makes you feel bad for him, and you can understand him not wanting to go to the Q, but the AHL is the best level for him and he's not able to go there.

It felt like with a new regime completely in and no prior attachments, they could repair the relationship with Grigo after previous decisions made for his career look stupid. But this was a pretty bad start on his behalf...

 

[Samsonite23]

But this is the point i don't understand. Why not let him play 2nd C without any pressure but with the goal to be better prepared next season? Buffalo will end up last with or without him, he is one of the key pieces on the rebuild.

BECAUSE HE ISNT A GOOD ENOUGH HOCKEY PLAYER YET. These people who made this call evaluate talent for a living. They watched him in practice and in games, and he didn't cut it. Playing him against superior players will hinder his development.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Try to trade him, if you can't just cut him loose. It was a wasted pick, and he'll never be a Sabre.

Darcy and company screwed this up royally like they screwed up the entire organization. It hilarious so many of you loved and defended Darcy for so long.

 

[Tompa8989*]

1) He hasn't done anything to merit that title or position. If we want to build a top class organization we have to hold people accountable and preach hard work, not allow a deluded hot shot play valuable minutes because he was drafted high.

2)He's not ready for it. Mentally and Physically. If he's upset about being sent to juniors how upset do you think he would be if he'd be losing every night and playing with the likes of Matt D'agostini or Matt Ellis.

3)He's not good enough for it... I'd much rather have a guy like Flynn or Ott play 2C than a kid who isn't ready for it and would be shocked by the pro game. Is Grigorenko a strong person mentally? doesn't seem like it. If we'd give him a free pass it'd make us look bad and we wouldn't be progressing his development any more.
Sending him to junior in order to hone his defensive attributes and improving his overall game is much smarter than shoving top 6 minutes down an 18 year old's throat on a historically bad team.

1. Fair enough,if you want to go that way. I wouldn't had handled it that way but i can see why you may do that.

2. Imo he hasn't got a chance to prove himself mentally and physically? 6'3 and 201 lbs screams ready to me.

3. I don't think he would improve his defensive game in the juniors. That's the reason there were 3 medalist from Europe in this years WJC. Kids in Sweden, Finland and Russia play against men while North American kids play against other kids. Thats the reason USA and Canada were crushed this year. Physically he is NHL ready and the mental part comes with the job of being an NHL player.
it's so typical North American that you ''have to earn'' your spot. You have to grind in the AHL to ''earn'' a spot in the NHL. Meanwhile there are players in NHL that doesn't even take a spot on a 23 man roster in SHL.

 

[DeadGhost]

Gifting Grigs a spot in the lineup makes it open season for anyone in the organization under contract to say, "I'm not going to play for Rochester/my respective Jr. team anymore, call me up right now."

That's the precedent it would set.

But we call that self-determination, right?

 

[Tompa8989*]

BECAUSE HE ISNT A GOOD ENOUGH HOCKEY PLAYER YET. These people who made this call evaluate talent for a living. They watched him in practice and in games, and he didn't cut it. Playing him against superior players will hinder his development.

Like Matt Ellis and Zenon Konopka is better choices on the C? As i said, in Europe, the best juniors play with and vs men. Doesn't hinder them in their development. Neither Ellis or Zonopka would take a roster spot on the last team in SHL.

 

[Jim Bob]

Try to trade him, if you can't just cut him loose. It was a wasted pick, and he'll never be a Sabre.

Darcy and company screwed this up royally like they screwed up the entire organization. It hilarious so many of you loved and defended Darcy for so long.

Too soon to cut him loose.

They own his rights for a while and he's still under contract for next season.

The key is finding him a place where he wants to play the rest of this season where he can develop.

He will start next season in Rochester where he will have to put up or shut up.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Try to trade him, if you can't just cut him loose. It was a wasted pick, and he'll never be a Sabre.

Darcy and company screwed this up royally like they screwed up the entire organization. It hilarious so many of you loved and defended Darcy for so long.

We don't know that yet. He can still be salvaged if cards are played intelligently and both sides work together.

 

[zenthusiast]

Gifting Grigs a spot in the lineup makes it open season for anyone in the organization under contract to say, "I'm not going to play for Rochester/my respective Jr. team anymore, call me up right now."

That's the precedent it would set.

But we call that self-determination, right?

Slippery_slope.txt

 

[Jim Bob]

Like Matt Ellis and Zenon Konopka is better choices on the C? As i said, in Europe, the best juniors play with and vs men. Doesn't hinder them in their development. Neither Ellis or Zonopka would take a roster spot on the last team in SHL.

Konopka is most certainly a better choice for a 4th line center than Grigorenko.

 

[ZeroPT*]

1. Fair enough,if you want to go that way. I wouldn't had handled it that way but i can see why you may do that.

2. Imo he hasn't got a chance to prove himself mentally and physically? 6'3 and 201 lbs screams ready to me.

3. I don't think he would improve his defensive game in the juniors. That's the reason there were 3 medalist from Europe in this years WJC. Kids in Sweden, Finland and Russia play against men while North American kids play against other kids. Thats the reason USA and Canada were crushed this year. Physically he is NHL ready and the mental part comes with the job of being an NHL player.
it's so typical North American that you ''have to earn'' your spot. You have to grind in the AHL to ''earn'' a spot in the NHL. Meanwhile there are players in NHL that doesn't even take a spot on a 23 man roster in SHL.

when someone says physically ready it's not only his weight and height.. it's all physical aspects of his game... Checking,Skating are huge parts of the game which require a certain level of physicality.

He won't develop his mental side of the game when this team is being crushed on a consistent basis, he'll get even more shaky. Well, you have to earn your spot, why would the spot just be gifted to him? because of his name? no, he needs seasoning, he needs to work on many aspects of his game, don't tell me he'll improve by playing 15 minutes a night with Ellis and Dags while the team is being whipped 5-0 on a consistent basis, he'll get even worse.

 

[Jame]

Ok, let's say he sat down and told him why and what he had to do to earn a spot next year, what did Grigo said in response? Either he tod Murray to go **** himself and stormed out of the room, then Murray made the ''send down call''.

Or Grigo said okey, that's fine, then Murray made the call and then Grigo said, hahaha i'm not gonna report to the Ramparts, ***** you!

It's obvious that the communication wasn't clear enough.

Obviously

 

[ZeroPT*]

Like Matt Ellis and Zenon Konopka is better choices on the C? As i said, in Europe, the best juniors play with and vs men. Doesn't hinder them in their development. Neither Ellis or Zonopka would take a roster spot on the last team in SHL.

NHL>>>>>KHL+SHL... totally different

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Apart from the main component of him being assigned and refusing has any other information came out regarding any of this?

 

[Tompa8989*]

when someone says physically ready it's not only his weight and height.. it's all physical aspects of his game... Checking,Skating are huge parts of the game which require a certain level of physicality.

He won't develop his mental side of the game when this team is being crushed on a consistent basis, he'll get even more shaky. Well, you have to earn your spot, why would the spot just be gifted to him? because of his name? no, he needs seasoning, he needs to work on many aspects of his game, don't tell me he'll improve by playing 15 minutes a night with Ellis and Dags while the team is being whipped 5-0 on a consistent basis, he'll get even worse.

I don't see how he is gonna develop any further when he has scored 139 points over the past two seasons with Quebec. That's like putting a 17 yo with a under-13 peewee team.

And there is no proof that says losing often this season is going to scar him mentally. It obviously didn't scar Sidney Crosby when Pens were absolutely atrocious.
If i were the GM i would have said, go out, have fun, try your best but earn the ice time. I would've given him top 6 minutes and see if he could earn them.

 

[Samsonite23]

Like Matt Ellis and Zenon Konopka is better choices on the C? As i said, in Europe, the best juniors play with and vs men. Doesn't hinder them in their development. Neither Ellis or Zonopka would take a roster spot on the last team in SHL.

Wow, apparently you just aren't listening. That's not how it works. You do what's best for the player's development. Isn't that what you just said the sabres didn't do before? That's not getting crush by superior players. You might disagree, but pretty much everybody that develops prospects will agree with me.

And players like Matt Ellis play their butts off every game and show prospects how to fight for your team. That's exactly what grigs needs to learn. They're players who teach younger ones, which helps In a rebuild

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I don't see how he is gonna develop any further when he has scored 139 points over the past two seasons with Quebec. That's like putting a 17 yo with a under-13 peewee team.

And there is no proof that says losing often this season is going to scar him mentally. It obviously didn't scar Sidney Crosby when Pens were absolutely atrocious.
If i were the GM i would have said, go out, have fun, try your best but earn the ice time. I would've given him top 6 minutes and see if he could earn them.

Not even close.

 

[JonathanWashington]

The poster said that this was setting the rebuild back 5 years.

I don't believe that he's THAT important to the rebuild. Especially if the Sabres can get Reinhart or McDavid or Eichel....

I think he plays a quite game but has good offensive skills. They didn't really handle him like he could be a top 6 forward. I agree with most,since he was assigned to the Q he needs to play there. I would like to see what he could do on a good line. .


Excited about the draft

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't see how he is gonna develop any further when he has scored 139 points over the past two seasons with Quebec. That's like putting a 17 yo with a under-13 peewee team.

And there is no proof that says losing often this season is going to scar him mentally. It obviously didn't scar Sidney Crosby when Pens were absolutely atrocious.
If i were the GM i would have said, go out, have fun, try your best but earn the ice time. I would've given him top 6 minutes and see if he could earn them.

How many games have you watched Grigorenko play this year in Buffalo?

He has been invisible most of the time.

 

[KennyFnPowers*]

WELP! 3 outta 4 aint bad for the last 2 years, eh? Darcy-still-exits-w-bang.

 

[Kyndig]

How many games have you watched Grigorenko play this year in Buffalo?

He has been invisible most of the time.

Maybe because he was only getting 5-6 minutes in the games he played with John Scott and crew? ****...he should have Crosby's stats by now

Let us not forget when he did seem to be playing well Rolston shortly after scratched him.

 

[Beerz]

How many games have you watched Grigorenko play this year in Buffalo?

He has been invisible most of the time.

So what? It doesn't mean you can't work him into games.

 

[Dunkster19]

agreed. packaging him with Miller would make sense to offset the "UFA to be" nature of Miller's trade value...

I REALLY like this idea....

Miller, Grigs for Holtby, Wilson

Sold!