The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread Part II (assigned to Québec)

[wnysupport]

But why is it so hard for a man like him to understand that he's not ready for this and that this decision is the new group's opinion on what's best for his development

Pride? Someone who thinks (realize I am saying 'thinks', not saying it's fact) he has the ability to play in the NHL.

The more and more I think of it, I can honestly see both sides to this....and hopefully he gets his head on right (whichever that ends up being).

I'd hate to see someone who has so much potential (and yes I'm aware potential just means you haven't done anything yet...thank you Bill Parcells haha) - to bust...or not reach it. Especially when the Sabres have been hurting for an offensive talent like he 'could' be.

 

[Jim Bob]

What? When he was drafted nearly the entire sabres forum said we finally found our number one C. Seeing as the Num 1 C is the most important position on an NHL team how does it not make Grigs extremely important to this rebuild?

Things have changed since then.

Grigorenko hasn't looked good and the Sabres look like they might be able to get a center prospect or two that are way better than Grigorenko in the next two drafts.

I just don't see Grigorenko being so important that his coming of the rails sets the rebuild back 5 years or more.

This isn't a 1st overall QB going bust in the NFL.

 

[joshjull]

I'm sure Murray told Grigorenko why he was sending him to Quebec and Grigorenko just didn't want to hear it based on plenty of the quotes he's given this year.

@BuffNewsVogl: Just landed in DC and see Mikhail Grigorenko's agent tells @BNHarrington the Sabres center won't report to Quebec junior team. (1/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: Source says Pat LaFontaine talked with Grigorenko today for 30 minutes to explain juniors decision. Grigorenko resisted the assignment (2/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: Source says Sabres told Grigorenko he needed to play top-line roles and wasn't ready to do that in Buffalo. At end of extended talk (3/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: The Sabres felt Grigorenko understood the reasoning and was ready to go to Quebec. Obviously, something changed the prospect's mind. (4/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: It's my guess Grigorenko's agent advised him to explore options because neither gets paid if the center is playing for free in juniors (5/5)

 

[SabresFan26]

He was the right pick at the time but him moving on does not offset our rebuild. Most peoples line ups in 3 years did not have him

 

[machpo]

Ok, let's say he sat down and told him why and what he had to do to earn a spot next year, what did Grigo said in response? Either he tod Murray to go **** himself and stormed out of the room, then Murray made the ''send down call''.

Or Grigo said okey, that's fine, then Murray made the call and then Grigo said, hahaha i'm not gonna report to the Ramparts, ***** you!

It's obvious that the communication wasn't clear enough.

You were in the room, then?

 

[wnysupport]

@BuffNewsVogl: Just landed in DC and see Mikhail Grigorenko's agent tells @BNHarrington the Sabres center won't report to Quebec junior team. (1/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: Source says Pat LaFontaine talked with Grigorenko today for 30 minutes to explain juniors decision. Grigorenko resisted the assignment (2/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: Source says Sabres told Grigorenko he needed to play top-line roles and wasn't ready to do that in Buffalo. At end of extended talk (3/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: The Sabres felt Grigorenko understood the reasoning and was ready to go to Quebec. Obviously, something changed the prospect's mind. (4/?)

@BuffNewsVogl: It's my guess Grigorenko's agent advised him to explore options because neither gets paid if the center is playing for free in juniors (5/5)

Oh agents...lol

 

[Jim Bob]

Ok, let's say he sat down and told him why and what he had to do to earn a spot next year, what did Grigo said in response? Either he tod Murray to go **** himself and stormed out of the room, then Murray made the ''send down call''.

Or Grigo said okey, that's fine, then Murray made the call and then Grigo said, hahaha i'm not gonna report to the Ramparts, ***** you!

It's obvious that the communication wasn't clear enough.

Or Grigorenko's agent changed his mind....

 

[slip]

No, it's the NHL way.

Did the Sabres talk to Pominville before he was waived to Rochester in 2005-06?

It's not like Grigorenko is a seasoned vet like Ryan Miller who a GM should talk to about his future. At this point, Grigorenko has to roll with what the Sabres management wants.

It's hard to segregate past errors from current ones. The effects of each mistake are cumulative and have brought us to this critical juncture.

In a certain sense, Grigorenko has rolled with management's desires:

"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Quebec."
"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Rochester."
"Go to juniors tourney,"
"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Quebec."

He's said yes to all except the last, and that's in the span of 16 months. I think it's an important context within which to look at Griogorenko's current state of mind.

But anyway you slice it, unless he reverses his state of mind in the next 24-48 hours and reports to Quebec, he's toast in Buffalo, and rightfully so.

 

[Tompa8989*]

The reason they are sending him to juniors is because keeping him in the nhl will hinder his development. He'd be in the ahl in a few months.

And if you honestly think the organization is thinking about the short term at this moment then you are absolutely blind.

But this is the point i don't understand. Why not let him play 2nd C without any pressure but with the goal to be better prepared next season? Buffalo will end up last with or without him, he is one of the key pieces on the rebuild.

 

[Moskau]

What? When he was drafted nearly the entire sabres forum said we finally found our number one C. Seeing as the Num 1 C is the most important position on an NHL team how does it not make Grigs extremely important to this rebuild?

I don't think many around him here seriously saw him as that which is why so many of us want to draft Reinhart and a Center next year. The way the league is currently, no Stanley Cup winning team will have a player like Grigorenko centering their top 3 lines. And that's if he lives up to his potential. With his speed and inability to play near the boards he wont make it as a winger on cup winning team either. My hope for Grigorenko was always to allow him to eventually put up points somewhere in the line-up and eventually trade him off before teams figured out you don't win with players like him the way Boston did with Kessel.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's hard to segregate past errors from current ones. The effects of each mistake are cumulative and have brought us to this critical juncture.

In a certain sense, Grigorenko has rolled with management's desires:

"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Quebec."
"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Rochester."
"Go to juniors tourney,"
"Go to Buffalo."
"Go to Quebec."

He's said yes to all except the last, and that's in the span of 16 months. I think it's an important context within which to look at Griogorenko's current state of mind.

But anyway you slice it, unless he reverses his state of mind in the next 24-48 hours and reports to Quebec, he's toast in Buffalo, and rightfully so.

Buffalo has mishandled Grigorenko from the drop.

But, there is a new GM in town and Grigorenko has to understand that how he's handled with be with someone that is viewing him with a new point of view and doesn't feel tied to previous mistakes.

It sucks, but it's what he has to deal with if he really wants to be a successful NHL player over the long run.

This isn't a good move if the guy really wants to be a pro.

 

[The Washer]

Seriously wondering what nonsense Grigo's agent was pitching in order to make this happen

Brilliant, if you ask me. Threw a spotlight on this clusterfrank of a development plan, for all to see.

 

[Tompa8989*]

Things have changed since then.

Grigorenko hasn't looked good and the Sabres look like they might be able to get a center prospect or two that are way better than Grigorenko in the next two drafts.

I just don't see Grigorenko being so important that his coming of the rails sets the rebuild back 5 years or more.

This isn't a 1st overall QB going bust in the NFL.

Well, say that you lose the lottery and end up picking nr.3 this draft, then you are really...You know.

 

[Jacob582]

Grigorenko = over-inflated sense of self , combined with a 19 year olds feelings of entitlement.

His personality is a reason why Lindy, Ron and Ted could not gift him ice time. The players in the room hate him.

(And as others have stated, a lot of vets on this team have been gifted ice time)

 

[Tompa8989*]

Or Grigorenko's agent changed his mind....

If that's what happened Murray should learn to have the agent there when talking about the top prospects future. It's 2014, everybody has phones or even skype.

 

[slip]

@BuffNewsVogl: The Sabres felt Grigorenko understood the reasoning and was ready to go to Quebec. Obviously, something changed the prospect's mind. (4/?)

Oh agents...lol

Things just got curiouser and curiouser.

Damn you Ari Gold!

 

[ZeroPT*]

But this is the point i don't understand. Why not let him play 2nd C without any pressure but with the goal to be better prepared next season? Buffalo will end up last with or without him, he is one of the key pieces on the rebuild.

1) He hasn't done anything to merit that title or position. If we want to build a top class organization we have to hold people accountable and preach hard work, not allow a deluded hot shot play valuable minutes because he was drafted high.

2)He's not ready for it. Mentally and Physically. If he's upset about being sent to juniors how upset do you think he would be if he'd be losing every night and playing with the likes of Matt D'agostini or Matt Ellis.

3)He's not good enough for it... I'd much rather have a guy like Flynn or Ott play 2C than a kid who isn't ready for it and would be shocked by the pro game. Is Grigorenko a strong person mentally? doesn't seem like it. If we'd give him a free pass it'd make us look bad and we wouldn't be progressing his development any more.
Sending him to junior in order to hone his defensive attributes and improving his overall game is much smarter than shoving top 6 minutes down an 18 year old's throat on a historically bad team.

 

[DeadGhost]

Out of curiosity, who is his agent and does he have a history of being a hard ass?

 

[SackTastic]

What? When he was drafted nearly the entire sabres forum said we finally found our number one C. Seeing as the Num 1 C is the most important position on an NHL team how does it not make Grigs extremely important to this rebuild?

1. The mythical "first line center" is not the most important position on a hockey team.
2. The aggregate knowledge of all forums posts on all forums ever amounts to bubkus.

 

[JonathanWashington]

I think you are vastly overestimating Grigorenko's potential value to the rebuild.

If he has top 6 talent and can be played in the top six and puts up comparable numbers to zemgus, to me that's important.

 

[boots electric]

Out of curiosity, who is his agent and does he have a history of being a hard ass?

I don't know his name, but it was mentioned earlier that his agent was also Kovalchuk's

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I don't know his name, but it was mentioned earlier that his agent was also Kovalchuk's

Therein lies some...difficulties brewing

 

[Tompa8989*]

Out of curiosity, who is his agent and does he have a history of being a hard ass?

I don't know his name, but it was mentioned earlier that his agent was also Kovalchuk's

Jay Grossman is his name.

 

[Jacob582]

Doing so sets the precedent that pouting in this organization gets you what you want. Doesn't sound like something Nolan and Murray are into.

I agree. I don't see how they could play him now. His teammates would revolt too.

If they are going to play him to inflate his numbers so they could trade him, they should have done that at the beginning of this season. That's what Canucks did with Hodgson. They gave him as many offensive zone starts and low quality of competition as possible so they could trade him for something.

 

[wunderpanda]

This whole episode is one massive entitlement issue. Do you really not see that?

I can't tell if its a sense of entitlement or if he has no faith in the organization anymore. We don't know what he has been told by the various regimes or if the action by the team today is contrary to something discussed prior to the WJC.