HF Habs: The Martin Saint-Louis thread: Winning Streak Edition

[Miller Time]

Is that you André Moreau

Joking apart i think you're way too compleasant regarding our head coach, i see no improvement from last season in regards of our young D and to me it start with the way we play in our own zone.

But hey, what do i know.

Defense is younger than last year (100 games of Edmonton/Wiseman out, Strubble in) & Ga/Gp is down .2

That's a metric of progress. What other metric(s) do you look at?

My eye test says the young D as a whole is improving (individually progress is never linear, players plateau, regress, and progress in fits and starts), yours says it isn't...

It's not complacency that's feeding my assessment in the least. I'm not slow to critique what I perceive as poor execution in any position of team building and performance development. In this case, I see both very positive signs of quality coaching leadership & on-ice progress that's very reasonable in the broader context.

Reality is that this organization is not prioritizing winning games. Trading Monahan well ahead of the deadline, not making any roster moves to address glaring present deficiencies, and not riding Montembeault as the #1 despite him playing clearly at a higher level than the other two goalies... Every player on that team understands what this is. MSL has the group competing hard and the most positive performances are coming from players under 25 (+ Kovacevic). There's a lot to like about that.
The shift to a prioritization on immediate results will shift his approach and I bet you'll see the accountability & structure shift accordingly.

We'll see.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Am i the only one tired of MSL excuses

« Je trouve que récemment, on mérite mieux. C'est un défi mentalement présentement. Notre game est là, mais ça prendrait un peu plus de finition pour se séparer un peu. Ce n'est pas une ligue facile, mais côté jeu collectif, l'engagement et l'éthique de travail, nous sommes là », a expliqué l'entraîneur-chef.

After 2 seasons of playing man to man in our own zone it is pretty clear it doesn't work, maybe try something else to ease the burden on our young D

What do you want him to say?

The team is designed to lose. Why do you think we trade Monahan? We have one real center for Pete’s sake.

 

[teamfirst]

Defense is younger than last year (100 games of Edmonton/Wiseman out, Strubble in) & Ga/Gp is down .2

That's a metric of progress. What other metric(s) do you look at?

My eye test says the young D as a whole is improving (individually progress is never linear, players plateau, regress, and progress in fits and starts), yours says it isn't...

It's not complacency that's feeding my assessment in the least. I'm not slow to critique what I perceive as poor execution in any position of team building and performance development. In this case, I see both very positive signs of quality coaching leadership & on-ice progress that's very reasonable in the broader context.

Reality is that this organization is not prioritizing winning games. Trading Monahan well ahead of the deadline, not making any roster moves to address glaring present deficiencies, and not riding Montembeault as the #1 despite him playing clearly at a higher level than the other two goalies... Every player on that team understands what this is. MSL has the group competing hard and the most positive performances are coming from players under 25 (+ Kovacevic). There's a lot to like about that.
The shift to a prioritization on immediate results will shift his approach and I bet you'll see the accountability & structure shift accordingly.

We'll see.

My eyes test says otherwise, all i see is that man to man coverage in our own zone is a killer for our D same for the passive PK, the worst thing about it is that we see no change about that, it's been like that since he became coach, no adjustment at all, what's the point of having a coach if he doesn't coach

I guess will see, next season is the last one on his 3 years deal, wouldn't be surprised if he gets fire before the end of it

 

[teamfirst]

What do you want him to say?

The team is designed to lose. Why do you think we trade Monahan? We have one real center for Pete’s sake.

Well if he could stop saying the same thing over and over ( the league is hard, we deserved better, we compete ).......that would be a start.

We maybe design to loose but we could try to improve while doing it, at least on certain facets of our game.....like looking a little bit more organized in our own zone

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well if he could stop saying the same thing over and over ( the league is hard, we deserved better, we compete ).......that would be a start.

We maybe design to loose but we could try to improve while doing it, at least on certain facets of our game.....like looking a little bit more organized in our own zone

We are improving while we do it. You may not see it but…

 

[teamfirst]

We are improving while we do it. You may not see it but…

No i'm not that's for sure

 

[Miller Time]

Is MSL to blame for the play of:
Anderson
Gallagher
Armia
Dvorak

That's ~20M$ in cap allocation on vets that contribute next to nothing if not net negative impact.

To those questioning his competency as a coach, imagine we didn't have those anchor contracts to navigate... give MSL 20M$ of contributing vets and watch the outcomes shift. Context matters.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Is MSL to blame for the play of:
Anderson
Gallagher
Armia
Dvorak

That's ~20M$ in cap allocation on vets that contribute next to nothing if not net negative impact.

To those questioning his competency as a coach, imagine we didn't have those anchor contracts to navigate... give MSL 20M$ of contributing vets and watch the outcomes shift. Context matters.

Armia is playing well since he was sent down

I have no problems with Armia since he came back

 

[Rapala]

Well if he could stop saying the same thing over and over ( the league is hard, we deserved better, we compete ).......that would be a start.

We maybe design to loose but we could try to improve while doing it, at least on certain facets of our game.....like looking a little bit more organized in our own zone

Man on Man has to go and everyone should know it. Carbonneau brings it up all the time.
The structure of our PK also has to change teams are feasting down low and the points are left wide open.
I'm not even sure how that is possible usually teams can cover one or the other at the very least.

Our in game strategies also have to get better.
The Devils iced the puck with 18 seconds left in the second period.
We send out Suzuki on his strong side but then use Kovacevic directly behind him with Xhekaj as the shooter.
Sure enough Suzuki wins the draw but Kovacevic is unable to make a play.
I have no issues with Arber Xhekaj being the shooter and I'm hoping we have set plays to get him the puck.
But seriously does anyone here think Kovacevic is the player to make that pass?

Half Assed strategy that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Zilo44]

Hard to complain about MSL. His teams i s utter trash, look at that forward depth

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

As long as the young guys keep developing under him there is nothing to criticize MSL. We're in a rebuild and Hughes' intention is clearly to tank this season. Who gives a f*** about his record this year?

 

[First Line]

Defense is younger than last year (100 games of Edmonton/Wiseman out, Strubble in) & Ga/Gp is down .2

That's a metric of progress. What other metric(s) do you look at?

My eye test says the young D as a whole is improving (individually progress is never linear, players plateau, regress, and progress in fits and starts), yours says it isn't...

It's not complacency that's feeding my assessment in the least. I'm not slow to critique what I perceive as poor execution in any position of team building and performance development. In this case, I see both very positive signs of quality coaching leadership & on-ice progress that's very reasonable in the broader context.

Reality is that this organization is not prioritizing winning games. Trading Monahan well ahead of the deadline, not making any roster moves to address glaring present deficiencies, and not riding Montembeault as the #1 despite him playing clearly at a higher level than the other two goalies... Every player on that team understands what this is. MSL has the group competing hard and the most positive performances are coming from players under 25 (+ Kovacevic). There's a lot to like about that.
The shift to a prioritization on immediate results will shift his approach and I bet you'll see the accountability & structure shift accordingly.

We'll see.

That’s a really good post.

It’s obvious why is the worst team in the East with barely any defensive forward (yes, we miss Dvorak) and the youngest D-corp bad at D?.
You dont dumb down the Defensive structure so that idiots like Gallagher and Pezzeta can play PK and change it back when Hughes gets smarter players.
We haven’t even started the “building” part if the rebuild yet.

 

[yianik]

Cream rises, blah blah. Do I think Slaf makes the progress he has under MB and MT ? No. Not a chance. Does Xhekaj go down to work on D and his offensive skill set under MB and MT ? No. Under what coach did Monahan find his game again ?

MSL may be lacking in the structuring of play in a game, but he knows how to draw out a players best attributes. Guy is looking killer on development.

All coaches have a shelf life, but MSL hasn't reached it here yet. And maybe he can put it together coaching wise. My fear is MSL leaves us, not that we move on from him, and then end up with an MT, Julien, Martin coach again.

 

[BLONG7]

Is MSL to blame for the play of:
Anderson
Gallagher
Armia
Dvorak

That's ~20M$ in cap allocation on vets that contribute next to nothing if not net negative impact.

To those questioning his competency as a coach, imagine we didn't have those anchor contracts to navigate... give MSL 20M$ of contributing vets and watch the outcomes shift. Context matters.

Absolutely I agree with this, somewhat.........................but that doesn't excuse the way we play in our own end, and the absurd, passive PK that is beyond attrocious....

 

[pepperMonkey]

We have something to lose?

Draft position...

 

[Theodore450]

Is MSL to blame for the play of:
Anderson
Gallagher
Armia
Dvorak

That's ~20M$ in cap allocation on vets that contribute next to nothing if not net negative impact.

To those questioning his competency as a coach, imagine we didn't have those anchor contracts to navigate... give MSL 20M$ of contributing vets and watch the outcomes shift. Context matters.

Funny how the last coach was able to get more out of those guys

 

[The Real Timo]

Cream rises, blah blah. Do I think Slaf makes the progress he has under MB and MT ? No. Not a chance. Does Xhekaj go down to work on D and his offensive skill set under MB and MT ? No. Under what coach did Monahan find his game again ?

MSL may be lacking in the structuring of play in a game, but he knows how to draw out a players best attributes. Guy is looking killer on development.

All coaches have a shelf life, but MSL hasn't reached it here yet. And maybe he can put it together coaching wise. My fear is MSL leaves us, not that we move on from him, and then end up with an MT, Julien, Martin coach again.

Michael Therrien 3.0 - let's go baby!!! Caufield to the 4th line. Slaf in the doghouse. Gignac top minutes as #1 center and 1 PP unit duty. I'm in!

 

[vokiel]

Hard to complain about MSL. His teams i s utter trash, look at that forward depth

His team is often utter trash, because it looks unprepared on the ice and yes we can definitely pin this on him.

 

[Sorinth]

His team is often utter trash, because it looks unprepared on the ice and yes we can definitely pin this on him.

A lack of preparedness is generally seen by teams having bad 1st periods. That's not been the case for us, in 58 games we have been leading after the first period 17 times and been trailing 19 times. So it the numbers don't really support the idea that we go into games unprepared.

And for me the eye test says the same, we are generally pretty well prepared, we are in most games right until the end, we often have leads, we don't see the team give up when they let in a few goals early, etc... The main issue is that we don't really have any answers when the other team really starts pushing for a goal. As a result we often blow leads, take bad penalties, etc... but that to me isn't a sign of bad coaching, it's a sign that we lack talent. The only thing the coach could do is tell them team to collapse in front of the net in the hopes of holding on, which sure might get us a few more points in the standings (And was what we saw in the Price era) but it's not a strategy that is worth pursuing because it's not what winning teams do. We are better off playing the right way and getting worse results because we are rebuilding then play the wrong way to squeeze out a few points and just prolong the rebuild.

 

[Miller Time]

Absolutely I agree with this, somewhat.........................but that doesn't excuse the way we play in our own end, and the absurd, passive PK that is beyond attrocious....

It does explain it.

Context matters.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Scotty Bowman in his prime couldn't make this a winning team. The roster is half AHLers and very little star power, particularly on D where the young guns are still developing. Goaltending has also been a challenge. You could put prime Carey Price in net and we would still be bottom 5. The Habs cough up too many prime scoring chances that kill the goaltenders confidence.

 

[Zilo44]

His team is often utter trash, because it looks unprepared on the ice and yes we can definitely pin this on him.

I think having bad players is a larger part of the equation, but let’s agree to disagree.

For the purpose of the discussion, let’s say we have a 1C this year in Suzuki.

Caufield is not playing like a first liner. Slaf is not there yet.

Then, since Monahan’s departure our second line is Newhook (who’s a young player whose ceiling is anywhere from good 3rd liner to good 2nd liner), Armia and rookie Roy.

Your 3rd line is Anderson who struggles a lot this year, Evans who is as mid as they come and Gallagher.

Your 4th is Pearson who’s useless, Pezzetta who only hits and Ylonen who’s a disappointment.

On D, you have have zero 1st pairing D and I don’t think there is any argument over that.

Than you have a bunch of young guys who would be better suited for 3rd pairing duties right now but who have to play 2nd pairing minutes on some nights.

Monty is a ok starter. Allen is trash and Primeau might be a backup.

No coach would do much better IMO

 

[vokiel]

I think having bad players is a larger part of the equation, but let’s agree to disagree.

You keep blaming the workers and the workers will tell you to f*** off. Will that make your team better in the end? Or will it cost the coach his job as it is usually the case? We had good outings vs very strong teams, Rangers for instance, but then we're just falling flat against bottom of the conference clubs, like Buffalo and Ottawa.

How would you explain the record at home vs the record away? We're one of the few teams where our record home is lousier than away. Even Chicago plays better at home than away.

Just because of that home record discrepancy, I can state game preparation is still an area the coaching staff needs to improve.

 

[Zilo44]

You keep blaming the workers and the workers will tell you to f*** off. Will that make your team better in the end? Or will it cost the coach his job as it is usually the case? We had good outings vs very strong teams, Rangers for instance, but then we're just falling flat against bottom of the conference clubs, like Buffalo and Ottawa.

How would you explain the record at home vs the record away? We're one of the few teams where our record home is lousier than away. Even Chicago plays better at home than away.

Just because of that home record discrepancy, I can state game preparation is still an area the coaching staff needs to improve.

I get what you’re saying. Might also be some growing pains of having one of the 5 youngest roster in the league

 

[vokiel]

I get what you’re saying. Might also be some growing pains of having one of the 5 youngest roster in the league

True, but then that's on Hughes. He got a greenie coaching crew. I just think the rebuild will be a bit longer because of it. I don't mind.