HF Habs: The Martin Saint-Louis thread: Winning Streak Edition

[BLONG7]

I’m asking you what you think should be done differently.

You have made it abundantly clear you hate the system. Okay… what do you think we should do?

In my opinion it won’t make a difference what system we have. We are too young and inexperienced. We have one real center… the only system that I really think would make a real difference is the trap. And I’d hate to see that employed.

Geez man...............it's obvious.

Aggressive not passive on the PK like all the successful team do............and wait for it.............stop playing man to man in our zone when 5 on 5 and play a zone coverage to get the puck back and get the fu^& out of our zone.........................Sorry but I thought it was obvious.
Stop the fu^& what we are doing and DO the opposite.
We are at the BOTTOM of the league because of such stupid decisions..................are we gonna be at the top with this change, of course not, but we would improve..................we have not changed our D type of systems in 2 years!!

 

[Scintillating10]

St.Louis good player coach for development. But his team structure sucks. Some of his game management is poor also. Like taking Evans off faceoff dot for crucial PK late in last game.

When team ready to contend probably going to need more structured sound coach. I always wanted to give Guy Boucher a shot. Or Bob Hartley, I wanted him instead of Therrein second time around. Hartley won everywhere and has strong Euro connections.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Geez man...............it's obvious.

Aggressive not passive on the PK like all the successful team do............and wait for it.............stop playing man to man in our zone when 5 on 5 and play a zone coverage to get the puck back and get the fu^& out of our zone.........................Sorry but I thought it was obvious.
Stop the fu^& what we are doing and DO the opposite.
We are at the BOTTOM of the league because of such stupid decisions..................are we gonna be at the top with this change, of course not, but we would improve..................we have not changed our D type of systems in 2 years!!

I think it’s easy to sit back and say - be aggressive on the PK. It’s a whole other thing to execute on it when you have one center.

Seriously man, the team is NOT good. They are doing exactly what I thought they would. No coach is going to do any better unless they implement a trap.

You say don’t play man to man and go get the puck back.. what does that even mean? And how do you think a team with one center is going to execute anything?

The team is overmatched, esp with the loss of Monahan.

The only thing that matters is that our young players develop. And that’s what’s happening now. Next year we’ll have more players and we’ll be better. But you can’t have three lines of crap and expect to win.

 

[BLONG7]

I think it’s easy to sit back and say - be aggressive on the PK. It’s a whole other thing to execute on it when you have one center.

Seriously man, the team is NOT good. They are doing exactly what I thought they would. No coach is going to do any better unless they implement a trap.

You say don’t play man to man and go get the puck back.. what does that even mean? And how do you think a team with one center is going to execute anything?

The team is overmatched, esp with the loss of Monahan.

The only thing that matters is that our young players develop. And that’s what’s happening now. Next year we’ll have more players and we’ll be better. But you can’t have three lines of crap and expect to win.

I don't expect them to win...........................nothing could be farther.
They have to change the system they are currently playing, because it's not working period. Brutal in their own end whether it's the PK or 5 on 5.....................they don't know how to play it, period.
They did lose Monahan, Dvorak and Dach.............but they do have players in thsir spots, who don't seem to get how to play in their own end either?

You play a zone D in order to collectively get the puck back...................the man to man leads to the nothing but get dominated. And as stated, the PK is too passive, and it's 32nd in the league.

If you think MSL is doing great hey, awesome, there is some of that I would agree with, I am a fan for the most part, but the stupidity of playing like garbage in our own end, does not have to happen...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't expect them to win...........................nothing could be farther.
They have to change the system they are currently playing, because it's not working period. Brutal in their own end whether it's the PK or 5 on 5.....................they don't know how to play it, period.
They did lose Monahan, Dvorak and Dach.............but they do have players in thsir spots, who don't seem to get how to play in their own end either?

You play a zone D in order to collectively get the puck back...................the man to man leads to the nothing but get dominated. And as stated, the PK is too passive, and it's 32nd in the league.

If you think MSL is doing great hey, awesome, there is some of that I would agree with, I am a fan for the most part, but the stupidity of playing like garbage in our own end, does not have to happen...

I think we’re going in circles here. I mean, I love the idea of an aggressive PK for example. But I just don’t think we have the players to execute.

 

[BLONG7]

I think we’re going in circles here. I mean, I love the idea of an aggressive PK for example. But I just don’t think we have the players to execute.

Circles for sure...
We have some horses, and we have a few donkeys....again this is a process, just not sure systemically the coach doesn't need some help with his gameplan. We didn't think we had the horses for a better PP, but all of a sudden we have gotten much better? Why? Maybe we changed the system from what we were using?

Anyhow, we can agree to disagree on this too.......

 

[Kimota]

St.Louis good player coach for development. But his team structure sucks. Some of his game management is poor also. Like taking Evans off faceoff dot for crucial PK late in last game.

When team ready to contend probably going to need more structured sound coach. I always wanted to give Guy Boucher a shot. Or Bob Hartley, I wanted him instead of Therrein second time around. Hartley won everywhere and has strong Euro connections.

St Louis is good with the kids for sure but sooner than later we're gonna need to win and compete and my pick for it would be Hartley. And he has a big competitive spirit and a fountain of hockey knowledge, with his experience he would know what to do in a variety of circomstances.

 

[Scintillating10]

St Louis is good with the kids for sure but sooner than later we're gonna need to win and compete and my pick for it would be Hartley. And he has a big competitive spirit and a fountain of hockey knowledge, with his experience he would know what to do in a variety of circomstances.

Yup, Hartley been my choice for more than decade now. What I see of it usually the most structured sound coach been here were our best. Ie. Bowman, Burns, Lemaire.

Well experienced with proven track record. Hartley has won a Stanley Cup, Calder Cup, Memorial Cup. Along with Russian league championship, the Swiss League Championship. I don't think anybody has ever done before?

Plus he has strong connection to Euro leagues. Will help at draft and signings of Russian players.

 

[Rapala]

People aren't bashing Marty There are a heck of a lot of things he does well.
That however doesn't prevent him from progressing and developing as an NHL coach.
Nothing is preventing our D from joining the rush and finding that open space but "positionless" hockey
has no place in the Dzone and I have no idea what we are supposed to be doing on the PK.

WhiIe I do agree we have a very weak team when it comes to role players and that has to be addressed.
We also have to start cleaning up some of the gaffes and holes on defense and particularly the totally unacceptable PK.

 

[Rapala]

He can say whatever he wants. But he was a terrible coach himself. So if he’s going to rip other coaches it makes sense for us to look at his record.

He's ripping a defensive zone strategy not a coach.
Holy Crap Man...

He'd be one of the first to say Marty is doing a good job in other areas.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's ripping a defensive zone strategy not a coach.
Holy Crap Man...

And I didn’t really hear an alternative to what we’re doing.

He'd be one of the first to say Marty is doing a good job in other areas.

And that’s fine. I didn’t slam him. All I said was that I don’t think the system is going to matter right now.

 

[BLONG7]

The PP early in the season..............31st in the league.
We change it up systemically, and poof it gets better.....around 18th at one point.

PK is 32nd in the league................
We don't change it up..................and it stays............................32nd.

So if we can change the PP with the same players, why can't we change the PK and come out of the basement. We all know why, the refusal to change the system....small passive box doesn't work we have the proof, 32nd place in the league.

Again, big fan of MSL......................why he and his band of idiot asst's don't see this, I am not sure.

The man on man 5 on 5 is the same thing..............doesn't work with this group, so..............................

End of story for me.
MSL needs to grow and develop the same as his players. He is not beyond reproach.
He needs to be a better tactician..................hell, hire Carbo for gods sake.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Love MSL , what's the rush? Fire him when we have our forward core locked in and developed , who cares. Coaches are expendable , MSL is a peewee coach brought in so that maybe in the next 100 years we can mold somebody and have a singular ppg player who's an offensive beast on the team.
He's helped Caufield , He's helping slaf.

If MSL dosen't grow than fire him , why are we so impatient during a full blown rebuild , hello?

Another poster above was talking about hiring Hartley. Like man.............................................................what are we talking about here

 

[Sorinth]

The NHL is very much a copycat league, zone D is in the in right now because Vegas used, but before that man on man was all the rage because Tampa won back to back cups playing that. One system isn't better then the other, it's all a question of the personnel you have and what the opposition is doing.

We for sure need a lot of work on the defensive side of the game, but just switching to zone D probably doesn't really change much because the problem is more often then not a failure to get the puck out of the zone even when we gain control of the puck and that's down to individual skill/vision/iq/experience.

 

[the valiant effort]

Hi, I’m Mike Matheson and I’ve just collected the puck behind my own net. Welcome to Jackass!

 

[TRG]

Carbonneau was one of the worst coaches we ever had.

Yeah, maybe the guy wasn't a good communicator and coach but I wouldn't doubt his hockey knowledge.

Marty needs a guy like Jacques Martin with him. Someone who knows the game, knows coaching, has tactical and strategic knowledge, knows in-game management.

 

[Rapala]

And I didn’t really hear an alternative to what we’re doing.


And that’s fine. I didn’t slam him. All I said was that I don’t think the system is going to matter right now.

What are you even on about no alternative.
The alternative is the basic zone "own your ice" defense most of these players grew up playing.

It isn't a coincidence our toughest opponents box us out and keep us on the perimeter.
Their positional awareness allows them to cut off the cycle behind the net.
They don't chase players all over the ice.
They protect the slot and make life miserable for anyone who ventures in there.
They make sure the middle of the ice is not a frickin' freeway to the net.
They stand up at the blue line making zone entry more difficult...

The last time I saw some resemblance to this type of D in Montreal we went to the Stanley Cup finals.

This is the alternative and it does not preclude our D from joining the rush.
Marty keeps harping about good offense starting with a good defensive play maybe we should start playing good defense.
I'm certain better positional play will cut down on the ridiculous zone time we constantly give up.
This will allow our players to have more energy for offense.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What are you even on about no alternative.
The alternative is the basic zone "own your ice" defense most of these players grew up playing.

I see... the o'l 'basic D system. Yeah! That'll fix everything!

It isn't a coincidence our toughest opponents box us out and keep us on the perimeter.
Their positional awareness allows them to cut off the cycle behind the net.
They don't chase players all over the ice.
They protect the slot and make life miserable for anyone who ventures in there.
They make sure the middle of the ice is not a frickin' freeway to the net.
They stand up at the blue line making zone entry more difficult...

The last time I saw some resemblance to this type of D in Montreal we went to the Stanley Cup finals.

This is the alternative and it does not preclude our D from joining the rush.
Marty keeps harping about good offense starting with a good defensive play maybe we should start playing good defense.
I'm certain better positional play will cut down on the ridiculous zone time we constantly give up.
This will allow our players to have more energy for offense.

You know what's not a coincidence? Our roster and our record.

None of this shit matters. None of it. All that matters is that our players develop. The roster is designed to lose. That's why we only have one real viable center.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah, maybe the guy wasn't a good communicator and coach but I wouldn't doubt his hockey knowledge.

Marty needs a guy like Jacques Martin with him. Someone who knows the game, knows coaching, has tactical and strategic knowledge, knows in-game management.

We’ve been through so many bad years of coaching and mismanagement. Now that we’re finally at a point where our prospects are developing we should bring back another retread?

I’m sorry but… no. Enough of that. And Martin is a trap style coach, we can just get MSL to do that if we want that path.

Next year we’ll hopefully have a better roster. Let’s at least see how that goes before saying that MSL can’t coach systems. Personally, I think team play will improve as the roster improves. And we’re unlikely to be a playoff team until 25-26 at the earliest.

 

[TRG]

We’ve been through so many bad years of coaching and mismanagement. Now that we’re finally at a point where our prospects are developing we should bring back another retread?

I’m sorry but… no. Enough of that. And Martin is a trap style coach, we can just get MSL to do that if we want that path.

Next year we’ll hopefully have a better roster. Let’s at least see how that goes before saying that MSL can’t coach systems. Personally, I think team play will improve as the roster improves. And we’re unlikely to be a playoff team until 25-26 at the earliest.

I had JM's name in mind because of the role he had in Pittsburgh with a younger coach. It can be someone else, it was just to illustrate the type of profile that could be helpful for MSL to learn from.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I had JM's name in mind because of the role he had in Pittsburgh with a younger coach. It can be someone else, it was just to illustrate the type of profile that could be helpful for MSL to learn from.

Fair enough. Again though, we could just tell MSL to put in the trap. It definitely works but from a development standpoint it’s not what I’d want

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I see... the o'l 'basic D system. Yeah! That'll fix everything!

You know what's not a coincidence? Our roster and our record.

None of this shit matters. None of it. All that matters is that our players develop. The roster is designed to lose. That's why we only have one real viable center.

TBF, we only have one viable center right now because of injuries, not design. Dach was trending as a top-6 center and Dvorak will only play 25 games this year.

 

[teamfirst]

MSL answer to a question during the presser after practice this morning

«Si un joueur n’est pas convaincu de la façon dont on fait les choses, c’est peut-être qu’il n’est pas à la bonne place», a déclaré Martin St-Louis, au terme de l’entraînement des siens.

Don't know if he had anybody in mind when he said that but the message as the merit of being crystal clear

Tried to find the quote in english media, not much about the Habs with TSN and Sporstnet even Montréal Gazette had nothing about that

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

TBF, we only have one viable center right now because of injuries, not design. Dach was trending as a top-6 center and Dvorak will only play 25 games this year.

We traded away Monahan. That was by design.

 

[Mrb1p]

So apparently Marty thinks this is the best stretch of hockey they've played. I haven't watched the last two games but if true, yikes.