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[mriswith]

"Consistent playoff team" for my purposes = 3+ seasons of making the playoffs in a row.

Feel free to knock off a single year for any teams going past the 04/05 lockout.

Edmonton has gone 20+ years without becoming a 'consistent playoff team.' But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Buffalo Sabres were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2001. Which was 20 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

Tampa Bay went 6 years without being a 'consistent playoff team.' But it should take 7-9 years.

The last time the Ottawa Senators were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2008. That was 13 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

It took the Columbus Blue Jackets 15 years to become a 'consistent playoff team.' But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the New Jersey Devils were a 'consistent playoff team' was 2010. Which was 11 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Florida Panthers have never been a 'consistent playoff team.' They were founded in 1994. That was 27 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

Prior to their present slump, the Chicago Blackhawks were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 1997. They broke that in 2009, a period of 12 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Phoenix Coyotes were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2012. Since it takes 7-9 years to make the playoffs, they clearly made the playoffs this year, right?

The last time the Dallas Stars were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2008. That was 13 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Toronto Maple Leafs, prior to becoming a 'consistent playoff team', were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 2004. They entered their current period of 'consistent playoff team' in 2017. A period of 13 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Calgary Flames were a 'consistent playoff team' was 2009. That was 12 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Winnipeg Jets/Atlanta Thrashers have never been a 'consistent playoff team.' That franchise was founded in 2000. But it only takes 7-9 years.

St. Louis went 6 years without being a 'consistent playoff team.' But it should take 7-9 years. That 6 year stretch was also the longest period, ever, that the Blues had not been a 'consistent playoff team', with the Blues only missing the playoffs 3 seasons from 1968-2004. Clearly, the only logical conclusion you can make is that the Blues never had to rebuild in that 36 year stretch.

The Carolina Hurricanes, as a franchise, were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 1992. They have only become a 'consistent playoff team' in 2019. A period of 27 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Nashville Predators became a 'consistent playoff team' in 2004. They have missed the playoffs 4 times since, remaining a 'consistent playoff team' for 17 years. Clearly, they have never had to rebuild and 52 year old Tom Fitzgerald boldly soldiers on, still leading the Predators all these years later.

The last time, prior to their current stretch, the Pittsburgh Penguins were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2001. They regained that status in 2007. 6 years. But, clearly, it takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Washington Capitals were a 'consistent playoff team', prior to their current run, was in 1996 before going into a blackhole that lasted 12 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

My takeaway from this is that Benning should get 27 years to finish the rebuild.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Other than by every public statement made by the management group at the beginning of the season during that time where they said playoffs were the goal, I agree

They obviously have to trot out 'the playoffs are the goal every year'..What else are you going to say to STH'ers and people that are actually buying tickets.?..In those two seasons , (after Linden said they were rebuilding) Benning never said 'I think we're a playoff team'...like he did in his first three years on the job....and his actions (or inaction) supported that.

 

[vanuck]

However many GM’s, 1,2, or 3, Detroit is headed down the 7 to 9 year path that most teams go through in the cap era. Name me the teams that have rebuilt in 5 or 6 years in the cap era. Not many. There are so many examples of teams taking this long to rebuild that it becomes obvious that no matter which gm you hire, or fire, the reality is 7 to 9 years to become a consistent playoff team.

Before getting into this whole rebuild nonsense, I should mention that it's not purely drafting/tanking that gets you to the top... it takes managerial competence too. From watching the Lightning repeat as Cup champs, that much should be obvious.

However the goal should always be winning the Cup - not settling for "make the playoffs". Just take a gander at the best championship teams in the cap era and the timelines for when their rebuilding moves were generally made:

PIT - 2003 to 2007
CHI - 2003 to 2008
LAK - 2003 to 2009
TBL - 2008 to 2013

These guys were not mired in the basement for ages while spinning their tires. Even BOS who reached multiple Cup finals with their core only really had two down years in 2006 and 2007.

If a team takes much more than 7 years, it's usually because they've failed to put a good enough supporting cast around their core to become a contender. And likely they'll have fired their GM because of that incompetence.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

My takeaway from this is that Benning should get 27 years to finish the rebuild.

I have made a similar case, using Darcy Regier as a comparable.

 

[Melvin]

Not sure how you still have the effort.

If someone is a troll then they aren’t worth the effort. You can spot them immediately, brand new registration date, straight to the management thread with outlandish stupidity.

but if someone is here from 2011 and posting IMO earnestly then they deserve a chance.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

They obviously have to trot out 'the playoffs are the goal every year'..What else are you going to say to STH'ers and people that are actually buying tickets.?..In those two seasons , (after Linden said they were rebuilding) Benning never said 'I think we're a playoff team'...like he did in his first three years on the job....and his actions (or inaction) supported that.

They could be honest with fans and tell them they are planning to prioritize long term over short term, which may lead to a period of less playoff success. This would allow them to make deals with the future in mind (sell assets for picks) instead of being hamstrung by some stupid need to be “competitive”. Most fans are not stupid

 

[MarkMM]

They obviously have to trot out 'the playoffs are the goal every year'..What else are you going to say to STH'ers and people that are actually buying tickets.?..In those two seasons , (after Linden said they were rebuilding) Benning never said 'I think we're a playoff team'...like he did in his first three years on the job....and his actions (or inaction) supported that.

What many other teams have the intelligence/discipline/foresight/vision to say.

Our goal is to win the Cup, we have a plan to do it, it won't happen overnight and it will take some sacrifice but we will make progress each year and it will be worth it.

Toronto in 2014 said it, New York in 2018 said it, Chicago in 2020 said it...so it's not like this is an impossible or unheard of thing to do.

Whether the plan works is dependent on the execution, but the idea that GM's don't tell the fanbase that the team is in need of a rebuild is categorically untrue.

 

[racerjoe]

If someone is a troll then they aren’t worth the effort. You can spot them immediately, brand new registration date, straight to the management thread with outlandish stupidity.

but if someone is here from 2011 and posting IMO earnestly then they deserve a chance.

I wouldn’t call him a troll either, though some of his posts maybe a bit trollish. It’s being able to have an honest conversation though. Like he doesn’t seem to acknowledge or get the point most of the time.

it’s one thing to enter a conversation knowing I won’t change someone’s mind, but I do expect if I say X, they will acknowledge X, then debate me about not just continue to go on about 3, when the topic is letters not numbers.

prime example being the one he keeps bringing up about 9 year rebuilds.

 

[mathonwy]

They could be honest with fans and tell them they are planning to prioritize long term over short term, which may lead to a period of less playoff success. This would allow them to make deals with the future in mind (sell assets for picks) instead of being hamstrung by some stupid need to be “competitive”. Most fans are not stupid

Aquilinis. Honesty. Choose one.

 

[mathonwy]

I think this is exactly the point you are missing. The Canucks are basically the only data point for a 7 year rebuild keeping the same manager. I’d accept the fact that changing management might lead to cleaning up messes, but it’s harder to accept giving the same guy leeway to make the same messes over and over without any critical review of his overall body of work in charge of the team. This seems like choosing failure and mediocrity in hopes that they turn around their performance against logic and track record, which bizarrely aligns with Benning’s normal pro scouting model

The Canucks are the outlier of all outliers when it comes to correlating team success with GM employment status.

"Consistent playoff team" for my purposes = 3+ seasons of making the playoffs in a row.

Feel free to knock off a single year for any teams going past the 04/05 lockout.

Edmonton has gone 20+ years without becoming a 'consistent playoff team.' But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Buffalo Sabres were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2001. Which was 20 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

Tampa Bay went 6 years without being a 'consistent playoff team.' But it should take 7-9 years.

The last time the Ottawa Senators were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2008. That was 13 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

It took the Columbus Blue Jackets 15 years to become a 'consistent playoff team.' But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the New Jersey Devils were a 'consistent playoff team' was 2010. Which was 11 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Florida Panthers have never been a 'consistent playoff team.' They were founded in 1994. That was 27 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

Prior to their present slump, the Chicago Blackhawks were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 1997. They broke that in 2009, a period of 12 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Phoenix Coyotes were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2012. Since it takes 7-9 years to make the playoffs, they clearly made the playoffs this year, right?

The last time the Dallas Stars were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2008. That was 13 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Toronto Maple Leafs, prior to becoming a 'consistent playoff team', were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 2004. They entered their current period of 'consistent playoff team' in 2017. A period of 13 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Calgary Flames were a 'consistent playoff team' was 2009. That was 12 years ago. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Winnipeg Jets/Atlanta Thrashers have never been a 'consistent playoff team.' That franchise was founded in 2000. But it only takes 7-9 years.

St. Louis went 6 years without being a 'consistent playoff team.' But it should take 7-9 years. That 6 year stretch was also the longest period, ever, that the Blues had not been a 'consistent playoff team', with the Blues only missing the playoffs 3 seasons from 1968-2004. Clearly, the only logical conclusion you can make is that the Blues never had to rebuild in that 36 year stretch.

The Carolina Hurricanes, as a franchise, were last a 'consistent playoff team' in 1992. They have only become a 'consistent playoff team' in 2019. A period of 27 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

The Nashville Predators became a 'consistent playoff team' in 2004. They have missed the playoffs 4 times since, remaining a 'consistent playoff team' for 17 years. Clearly, they have never had to rebuild and 52 year old Tom Fitzgerald boldly soldiers on, still leading the Predators all these years later.

The last time, prior to their current stretch, the Pittsburgh Penguins were a 'consistent playoff team' was in 2001. They regained that status in 2007. 6 years. But, clearly, it takes 7-9 years.

The last time the Washington Capitals were a 'consistent playoff team', prior to their current run, was in 1996 before going into a blackhole that lasted 12 years. But it only takes 7-9 years.

This is well compiled.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What many other teams have the intelligence/discipline/foresight/vision to say.

Our goal is to win the Cup, we have a plan to do it, it won't happen overnight and it will take some sacrifice but we will make progress each year and it will be worth it.

Toronto in 2014 said it, New York in 2018 said it, Chicago in 2020 said it...so it's not like this is an impossible or unheard of thing to do.

Whether the plan works is dependent on the execution, but the idea that GM's don't tell the fanbase that the team is in need of a rebuild is categorically untrue.

When the Canucks committed $56M to the Sedins in 2013..There wasnt going to be sacrifices, they were committed to the idea of trying to make the playoffs till the end of their contracts.

In Bennings first year as GM, he turned an underachieving group into a 101 point team....which reinforced a false illusion in ownership/managements eyes, that the 'rebuild on the fly' was working..Half assed attempts at rebuilding, and competing the next few years , met with predictable results...With not enough elite skill in the pipeline, it was all but guaranteed to founder.

There wasnt going to be a letter to the fans to be patient while they rebuild..there wasnt going to be hoarding picks, or utilizing cap space..

Its spilled milk..move on.

 

[racerjoe]

When the Canucks committed $56M to the Sedins in 2013..There wasnt going to be sacrifices, they were committed to the idea of trying to make the playoffs till the end of their contracts.

In Bennings first year as GM, he turned an underachieving group into a 101 point team....which reinforced a false illusion in ownership/managements eyes, that the 'rebuild on the fly' was working..Half assed attempts at rebuilding, and competing the next few years , met with predictable results...With not enough elite skill in the pipeline, it was all but guaranteed to founder.

There wasnt going to be a letter to the fans to be patient while they rebuild..there wasnt going to be hoarding picks, or utilizing cap space..

Its spilled milk..move on.

So after that first Benning season, we’re the Canucks trying to win?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So after that first Benning season, we’re the Canucks trying to win?

Yes they were.

 

[Rick Rocket]

They obviously have to trot out 'the playoffs are the goal every year'..What else are you going to say to STH'ers and people that are actually buying tickets.?..In those two seasons , (after Linden said they were rebuilding) Benning never said 'I think we're a playoff team'...like he did in his first three years on the job....and his actions (or inaction) supported that.

I don't get this, how has ownership made any effort to keep STH and customers buying? They have retained the absolute worst GM against the large majority of fans' wishes. It mattered then but not now in the past few years?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I don't get this, how has ownership made any effort to keep STH and customers buying? They have retained the absolute worst GM against the large majority of fans' wishes. It mattered then but not now in the past few years?

Business up with eight sellouts by mid-season compared with one at the same time last year

The selling point right now are the young core players..when they are on, they are exciting players to watch..

 

[racerjoe]

Yes they were.

when did they stop trying to win?

 

[Rick Rocket]

Business up with eight sellouts by mid-season compared with one at the same time last year

The selling point right now are the young core players..when they are on, they are exciting players to watch..

I believe that none of that has to do with decisions by ownership, its likely changes in the COVID situation. Do you agree?

Obviously we have exciting young core players to watch generally due to terrible standings over the past few years.
Can you imagine sales if better players were drafted (fan majority), supported by a smartly acquired lineup and properly coached in an actual thought out system? Oh what should be...

 

[rypper]

when did they stop trying to win?

(Never.)

Or ok, for a day when they traded burrows and hansen.

 

[DS7]

Before getting into this whole rebuild nonsense, I should mention that it's not purely drafting/tanking that gets you to the top... it takes managerial competence too. From watching the Lightning repeat as Cup champs, that much should be obvious.

However the goal should always be winning the Cup - not settling for "make the playoffs". Just take a gander at the best championship teams in the cap era and the timelines for when their rebuilding moves were generally made:

PIT - 2003 to 2007
CHI - 2003 to 2008
LAK - 2003 to 2009
TBL - 2008 to 2013

These guys were not mired in the basement for ages while spinning their tires. Even BOS who reached multiple Cup finals with their core only really had two down years in 2006 and 2007.

If a team takes much more than 7 years, it's usually because they've failed to put a good enough supporting cast around their core to become a contender. And likely they'll have fired their GM because of that incompetence.

I'd add Philly to the list of quick turnarounds too.

Was last in the league 2006-07 season. Makes conference finals and finals by 2010

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

when did they stop trying to win?

As in tanking.?..never.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I believe that none of that has to do with decisions by ownership, its likely changes in the COVID situation. Do you agree?

Obviously we have exciting young core players to watch generally due to terrible standings over the past few years.
Can you imagine sales if better players were drafted (fan majority), supported by a smartly acquired lineup and properly coached in an actual thought out system? Oh what should be...

Most teams that have exciting young players, usually had to endure terrible standings for a number of years...What do you mean by 'fan majority' picked players..?

 

[racerjoe]

As in tanking.?..never.

then I just don’t get it. That’s what maybe two competent seasons out of seven?

like being serious here I just don’t get it. I want to understand your POV. Why does he deserve to be defended?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

then I just don’t get it. That’s what maybe two competent seasons out of seven?

like being serious here I just don’t get it. I want to understand your POV. Why does he deserve to be defended?

You're going to have to be more specific...I wasn't even expressing a POV...I just listed a table of events.

 

[racerjoe]

You're going to have to be more specific...I wasn't even expressing a POV...I just listed a table of events.

Fair for this event, however overall you do normally defend benning moves, and I just want to under why, and where it comes from.

 

[arttk]

Fair for this event, however overall you do normally defend benning moves, and I just want to under why, and where it comes from.

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