The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[TheNumber4]

I don't think management has ever really put in any significant effort into building a team. Going back to the days of Sam Gagner they just sorta expected all their problems to be solved by this one player. Hall/Eberle were given the keys to the city and free reign to do what they wanted without any real supplemental help. Sure they would get the odd castoff vet but more often than not they were expected to carry the team to greatness. Yakupov was billed as the next great scoring winger yet constantly subjected to Eakins and a general lack of direction. Even Leon struggled very early on in his career before his rookie season was put to pasture far, far too late.

In comes McDavid, a true generational talent. Without a doubt the hardest thing to acquire not only in hockey but in any sport. It's my belief that the Oilers have always viewed McDavid as an "instant win button", guaranteed to win the team a Cup because he's just that good. Last year certainly gives some credence to that idea, but he was immediately met with a bozo GM in Chiarelli and lame duck after lame duck coach. I liked McLellan a lot more than some here, but it was pretty obvious he just couldn't get it done. Then Dave Tippett was brought in to "coach some defense" which naturally never materialized. Just a shitty coach who's never accomplished anything other than beating the Oilers with his undermanned Coyotes teams. And it goes from there with GMs and coaches that most teams wouldn't go near. I think Woodcroft was a bit too raw but at least seemed to push some of the right buttons. Knoblauch actually has some sense but I don't know how much credit I would give to management on him since it's probable he was hired only because of his McDavid connection (see: Jackson).

The Oilers have just abysmal drafting and development. The only picks since McDavid (in 2015) that are actively playing with the Oilers right now are Skinner and Bouchard. And the only picks that are actually still playing in the NHL are Puljujaarvi, Yamamoto, Desharnais, McLeod, Broberg and Holloway. Not exactly an impressive lineup of drafted players from a 9 year stretch. I guess you could throw Bear and Jones in there too but even then they're barely playing.

This also ties into the shitty asset management that we've been discussing in this thread. Too many picks and prospects thrown away on garbage. Petry for a few picks (which as of right now has amounted to nothing seeing as Stolarz and Talbot are no longer with the team), a couple of seconds for AA, and what we witnessed in the offseason. Oh and that Pronger trade that was only saved by Jordan Eberle who eventually turned into Strome, into Spooner, into Gagner and finally into nothing. Hall into Larsson into nothing.

McDavid masks a ton of issues with this org, content to do the absolute bare minimum in all areas and hope it all works out. As I said before, had we good prospects that were knocking on the door I doubt losing Broberg/Holloway really hurts us all that much. But we don't. At all.

Effort? Meh. They try and have had their fair share of failures, but I don’t think it’s a matter of effort.

Some things like Gagner era attempts at UFA signings can be blamed on the Edmonton factor of no one wants to play for a tire fire in the Arctic.

Other things like bad drafting, botched asset management, can be blamed on the oilers. But it’s not like there weren’t some wins in there too. We’ve had good signings and good trades and good draft picks too. On the balance, it’s been more bad than good though. With more good happening recently.

But this is ALOT of history to go over in one post. I’m not going down that route today lol.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maybe sometimes. But everytime? There’s a huge list of forwards that come here and their offense just dies.

Name this huge list. The vast majority were basement bin players. For years this org was cashstrapped through their own cap mismanagement and would hire a bunch of nothings. Others like the Turris signing were lol from the start. The guy was completely finished.

Hyman was the first good production forward we'd obtaned in sometime. Really the only forward addition in topsix that worked out since Hyman. But we dragged in a lot of duds here since to try to insert somewhere. Arvid and Skinner were jus really badly conceived recruits to land on for differeing reasons. you know I said this from the start. There lack of adding anything here is not by surprise. These were dubious players to spend rare caproom on. Its about making cerebral picks based on a lot of information. Not just reading player pts and goals. lol. Seemingly there was virtually no thought on part of the org in getting Skinner and Arvid. Just that the fanbase would be duped buy it and buy some more tickets. No purist would think these are two players you should land on as your big offseason splash (and while losing other better players)

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There's a difference in money and draft picks, but there's also a massive difference in players.

It's the same thing.

The relationships are fundamentally different and so is the risk factors involved. Worst case scenario with a Bouchard contract impasse is a trade or ultimate organizational wiff would be 4 first round picks and roughly $10 million to find replacement level player(s). Not ideal but a reasonable contingency with quality assets to trade, ability to buy retention dollars, and budget hole of likely $10 million to fit a high quality replacement.

Oilers are at least smart enough now to be pro-actively preparing for Bouchard negotiations and added benefit that he shares agency with the team's super elite, McDavid. Inaction on this management group's first file is rife with historic precedence of failing to prioritize its best young NHL talent despite abundant obvious high risk indicators

 

[TheNumber4]

Name this huge list. The vast majority were basement bin players. For years this org was cashstrapped through their own cap mismanagement and would hire a bunch of nothings. Others like the Turris signing were lol from the start. The guy was completely finished.

Hyman was the first good production forward we'd obtaned in sometime. Really the only forward addition in topsix that worked out since Hyman. But we dragged in a lot of duds here since to try to insert somewhere. Arvid and Skinner were jus really badly conceived recruits to land on for differeing reasons. you know I said this from the start. There lack of adding anything here is not by surprise. These were dubious players to spend rare caproom on. Its about making cerebral picks based on a lot of information. Not just reading player pts and goals. lol. Seemingly there was virtually no thought on part of the org in getting Skinner and Arvid. Just that the fanbase would be duped buy it and buy some more tickets. No purist would think these are two players you should land on as your big offseason splash (and while losing other better players)

That’s my general impression. Confidence dies in Edmonton. I don’t feel like going over 10 years of Oilers history after a 1-0 loss though to really dig into it. Maybe we’ll get into another day, not up for it right now.

For the roster here and now. We shall see. I think Arvid and Skinner have shown ability. But haven’t been awarded with production. We had 60ish games for it to turn around and I see signs that it can, that I’ve already gone over. We shall see.

 

[Soundwave]

Name this huge list. The vast majority were basement bin players. For years this org was cashstrapped through their own cap mismanagement and would hire a bunch of nothings. Others like the Turris signing were lol from the start. The guy was completely finished.

Hyman was the first good production forward we'd obtaned in sometime. Really the only forward addition in topsix that worked out since Hyman. But we dragged in a lot of duds here since to try to insert somewhere. Arvid and Skinner were jus really badly conceived recruits to land on for differeing reasons. you know I said this from the start. There lack of adding anything here is not by surprise. These were dubious players to spend rare caproom on. Its about making cerebral picks based on a lot of information. Not just reading player pts and goals. lol. Seemingly there was virtually no thought on part of the org in getting Skinner and Arvid. Just that the fanbase would be duped buy it and buy some more tickets. No purist would think these are two players you should land on as your big offseason splash (and while losing other better players)

Hall
Eberle
Strome
Lucic
Neal
Arvidsson
Skinner
Athansiou

All scored at a 20+ goal rate (in some cases 30+ goal rate) elsewhere but their offense went to shit in the McDavid era here.

Really the only two forwards they've added that actually have worked long term are Hyman and Maroon and both have to be stapled 100% to McDavid for any production. Kane has been trending towards becoming a 3rd line winger which isn't ideal.

Then you throw in guys like Puljujarvi and Yamamoto that went bust.

 

[McShogun99]

Hall
Eberle
Strome
Lucic
Neal
Arvidsson
Skinner
Athansiou

All scored at a 20+ goal rate (in some cases 30+ goal rate) elsewhere but their offense went to shit in the McDavid era here.

Really the only two forwards they've added that actually have worked long term are Hyman and Maroon and both have to be stapled 100% to McDavid for any production. Kane has been trending towards becoming a 3rd line winger which isn't ideal.

Then you throw in guys like Puljujarvi and Yamamoto that went bust.

As good as Mcdavid and Draisaitl are, I think they are very hard to play with. We all thought Skinner would be a lock for 30 goals with them but he just isn't a fit.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hall
Eberle
Strome
Lucic
Neal
Arvidsson
Skinner
Athansiou

All scored at a 20+ goal rate (in some cases 30+ goal rate) elsewhere but their offense went to shit in the McDavid era here.

Really the only two forwards they've added that actually have worked long term are Hyman and Maroon and both have to be stapled 100% to McDavid for any production. Kane has been trending towards becoming a 3rd line winger which isn't ideal.

Then you throw in guys like Puljujarvi and Yamamoto that went bust.

AA and Lucic were laugh a minute additions. Do you even know how AA was scoring those goals on bad clubs? They were either empty net goals, they were oddman rushes and they were breakaways. I looked at all of them. While playing on bad clubs against opposition that would beat the teams for fun and play lazy on coverage. Neal half dead. Lucic was a cataclysmic idiot deal of the sort this org does so often.

Hall, Eberle actually produced here. Chiarelli figured they were rat nuggets. Skinner and Arvid I figured would be duds here. Id expect a Billion buck org to know better than a punter but here we are. The org a decade later still getting it wrong and never a top to bottom forensic audit.

Strome actually showed some promise. The org was impatient . But the last 5 forwards on that list are an indictment of what an idiot org this is. thanks for the reminder. You missed Turris haha.

As good as Mcdavid and Draisaitl are, I think they are very hard to play with. We all thought Skinner would be a lock for 30 goals with them but he just isn't a fit.

No we didn't.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Effort? Meh. They try and have had their fair share of failures, but I don’t think it’s a matter of effort.

Some things like Gagner era attempts at UFA signings can be blamed on the Edmonton factor of no one wants to play for a tire fire in the Arctic.

Other things like bad drafting, botched asset management, can be blamed on the oilers. But it’s not like there weren’t some wins in there too. We’ve had good signings and good trades and good draft picks too. On the balance, it’s been more bad than good though. With more good happening recently.

But this is ALOT of history to go over in one post. I’m not going down that route today lol.

The problem is that the wins are so few and far inbetween, and even then often players are simply cast away. Two players currently playing for the team since McDavid was drafted is putrid stuff, and if Campbell wasn't such a huge bust Skinner isn't currently the starter. And the problems with drafting go back decades. There's a reason why this team hasn't been able to properly develop a goalie in 40 years.

Just parsing over the list of draft picks... The best player this team has drafted in the past 20 years that wasn't a first rounder is probably Jeff Petry. No disrespect to Jeff but that's awful for a two decade span. RNH, Nurse and Draisatl are basically the only things we have to show for an entire decade of being the worst run team in the NHL.

Like yeah there's a Hyman every so often but it's marred by a Campbell or a Lucic or some other bad signing. This team just sucks at scouting. Who on Earth thought Josh Brown was a good acquisition? Jeff Skinner/Arvidsson are barely showing anything.

At this stage it feels more like the "wins" from the organization are accidental or coincidental. McDavid is the hardest thing to get and we still struggle to cobble together even passable wings for him and Draisatl. If we could draft worth a damn that wouldn't be a problem and we wouldn't have to go dumpster diving every July.

 

[Soundwave]

As good as Mcdavid and Draisaitl are, I think they are very hard to play with. We all thought Skinner would be a lock for 30 goals with them but he just isn't a fit.

Possibly yes. That and some of our coaching decisions are mind mindbogglingly stupid.

Like we kept trying to get "Looch goin'" by throwing back on the 1st line but never gave Strome a chance there ever.

Knob is playing Connor Brown in the top six because he says he was wowwed by Brown scoring on one timers in practise (probably on slow motion Stuey).

We never really gave Hall + McDavid a chance either, it was tried for like 3 games and then basically decided to never do it ever again.

This team just has a bizarre level of patience for certain players and absolutely zero for others and it's nonsensical.

 

[TheNumber4]

The problem is that the wins are so few and far inbetween, and even then often players are simply cast away. Two players currently playing for the team since McDavid was drafted is putrid stuff, and if Campbell wasn't such a huge bust Skinner isn't currently the starter. And the problems with drafting go back decades. There's a reason why this team hasn't been able to properly develop a goalie in 40 years.

Just parsing over the list of draft picks... The best player this team has drafted in the past 20 years that wasn't a first rounder is probably Jeff Petry. No disrespect to Jeff but that's awful for a two decade span. RNH, Nurse and Draisatl are basically the only things we have to show for an entire decade of being the worst run team in the NHL.

Like yeah there's a Hyman every so often but it's marred by a Campbell or a Lucic or some other bad signing. This team just sucks at scouting. Who on Earth thought Josh Brown was a good acquisition? Jeff Skinner/Arvidsson are barely showing anything.

At this stage it feels more like the "wins" from the organization are accidental or coincidental. McDavid is the hardest thing to get and we still struggle to cobble together even passable wings for him and Draisatl. If we could draft worth a damn that wouldn't be a problem and we wouldn't have to go dumpster diving every July.

We talking ancient history here. We went to game 7 of cup finals, whatever wins and losses happened it still got us where we wanted to be. So personally, I don’t have the effort to gripe about things like that anymore. I’ve spent more than enough words on those situations (Petry, UFA signings, bad or good trades, bad drafting) when it was still fresh in the brain, no need to talk about them now.

I’m worried about the team we are seeing in the here and now. The roster decisions made from the offseason to now is my focus.

 

[Soundwave]

We talking ancient history here. We went to game 7 of cup finals, whatever wins and losses happened it still got us where we wanted to be. So personally, I don’t have the effort to gripe about things like that anymore. I’ve spent more than enough words on those situations (Petry, UFA signings, bad or good trades, bad drafting) when it was still fresh in the brain, no need to talk about them now.

I’m worried about the team we are seeing in the here and now. The roster decisions made from the offseason to now is my focus.

I mean even in the recent history of the team there are a lot of head scratchers. This team essentially chose to invest playing time in Desharnais instead of Broberg and gave Kesselring zero chance.

This is the same org that gave Ty Rattie more playing time with McDavid than Taylor Hall or Ryan Strome, the favoritism is often bizarre.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

We talking ancient history here. We went to game 7 of cup finals, whatever wins and losses happened it still got us where we wanted to be. So personally, I don’t have the effort to gripe about things like that anymore. I’ve spent more than enough words on those situations (Petry, UFA signings, bad or good trades, bad drafting) when it was still fresh in the brain, no need to talk about them now.

I’m worried about the team we are seeing in the here and now. The roster decisions made from the offseason to now is my focus.

It’s not really ancient history though. The topic at hand is directly correlated with the same bad asset management because BowJack didn’t sign or trade the two players in question when the opportunity presented itself. Now we are stuck with a pair of picks that we sure hope can become Holloway and Broberg but nothing the Oilers have done really indicates that they will.

This has been an ongoing problem for as long as I’ve been following the team. And right now as this team struggles to produce offense, especially against top tier teams, it’s hard to picture this season ending with a championship.

I mean even in the recent history of the team there are a lot of head scratchers. This team essentially chose to invest playing time in Desharnais instead of Broberg and gave Kesselring zero chance.

This is the same org that gave Ty Rattie more playing time with McDavid than Taylor Hall or Ryan Strome, the favoritism is often bizarre.

I forgot about Kesselring. Holland really sucked.

 

[Kamus]

The relationships are fundamentally different and so is the risk factors involved. Worst case scenario with a Bouchard contract impasse is a trade or ultimate organizational wiff would be 4 first round picks and roughly $10 million to find replacement level player(s). Not ideal but a reasonable contingency with quality assets to trade, ability to buy retention dollars, and budget hole of likely $10 million to fit a high quality replacement.

Oilers are at least smart enough now to be pro-actively preparing for Bouchard negotiations and added benefit that he shares agency with the team's super elite, McDavid. Inaction on this management group's first file is rife with historic precedence of failing to prioritize its best young NHL talent despite abundant obvious high risk indicators

Off tangent…. But if Bouch was offered sheeted, would you take those 4 first rounders(or less) and package Them with Nurse to get rid of him and then use the 19.25 million to get the two best UFAs? I guess it does depend on who is available that year and if there is a team interested in taking Nurse.

 

[TheNumber4]

I mean even in the recent history of the team there are a lot of head scratchers. This team essentially chose to invest playing time in Desharnais instead of Broberg and gave Kesselring zero chance.

This is the same org that gave Ty Rattie more playing time with McDavid than Taylor Hall or Ryan Strome, the favoritism is often bizarre.

Chose to go with a Rightie in a Right Slot who was playing good hockey. Versus an unknown quantity playing his off side that was still proving himself in the AHL.

I don’t know. Maybe they should have just gave up that slot. But I think the “mistake” happened earlier if you were to pin it on a mistake. And that would be resigning Kulak instead of having a slot open for Brobergs natural left side.

But with Kulaks performance and how good he’s been, it becomes hard to even call that a mistake.

It’s not really ancient history though. The topic at hand is directly correlated with the same bad asset management because BowJack didn’t sign or trade the two players in question when the opportunity presented itself. Now we are stuck with a pair of picks that we sure hope can become Holloway and Broberg but nothing the Oilers have done really indicates that they will.

This has been an ongoing problem for as long as I’ve been following the team. And right now as this team struggles to produce offense, especially against top tier teams, it’s hard to picture this season ending with a championship.


I forgot about Kesselring. Holland really sucked.

Over how many different eras of management? The only thing that really makes sense to figure out now, is what Holland did or didn’t do, and Bowman. You can keep going back for the gripe factor, but I don’t see the sense in it. We all know we sucked during the DOD and blah blah blah.

I think Holland was a mixed bag, but I can’t argue with the results, it got us to a game 7 cup finals. From there, let’s look at what Bowman’s doing.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Off tangent…. But if Bouch was offered sheeted, would you take those 4 first rounders(or less) and package Them with Nurse to get rid of him and then use the 19.25 million to get the two best UFAs? I guess it does depend on who is available that year and if there is a team interested in taking Nurse.

I value Nures more than many here. He's overpaid but still a 20 minute, hard situation d-man who will annually roles out double figure goals, thirty points. Big, mobile with solid skills that includes functional toughness. I wouldn't burn assets trying to move him. Rather do what Knoblauch is doing and that is to carefully manage this d-corps deployment and situational usage. Search out top pair options maybe overpaid elsewhere and if necessary buy retention to leverage adding another d or quality position player elsewhere.

I think there's 99.9% likelihood Bouchard is re-signed.

 

[Kamus]

I value Nures more than many here. He's overpaid but still a 20 minute, hard situation d-man who will annually roles out double figure goals, thirty points. Big, mobile with solid skills that includes functional toughness. I wouldn't burn assets trying to move him. Rather do what Knoblauch is doing and that is to carefully manage this d-corps deployment and situational usage. Search out top pair options maybe overpaid elsewhere and if necessary buy retention to leverage adding another d or quality position player elsewhere.

I think there's 99.9% likelihood Bouchard is re-signed.

Agreed. Just curious your thoughts if he was.

 

[Soundwave]

Chose to go with a Rightie in a Right Slot who was playing good hockey. Versus an unknown quantity playing his off side that was still proving himself in the AHL.

I don’t know. Maybe they should have just gave up that slot. But I think the “mistake” happened earlier if you were to pin it on a mistake. And that would be resigning Kulak instead of having a slot open for Brobergs natural left side.

But with Kulaks performance and how good he’s been, it becomes hard to even call that a mistake.


Over how many different eras of management? The only thing that really makes sense to figure out now, is what Holland did or didn’t do, and Bowman. You can keep going back for the gripe factor, but I don’t see the sense in it. We all know we sucked during the DOD and blah blah blah.

I think Holland was a mixed bag, but I can’t argue with the results, it got us to a game 7 cup finals. From there, let’s look at what Bowman’s doing.

Bowman's three moves that's he been allowed to make (Podkolzin for a 4th, Kapanen for nothing, Emberson + dumping Ceci) haven't been bad.

I'm not going to fault him for the offer sheet situation, Jackson and Holland dug that grave, it's not really Bowman's fault they walked into that grenade.

I'm willing to give Bowman a bit of a chance. I see in Chicago he did make some underrated steals ... Dylan Strome who has been fantastic this year ... Brandon Hagel just named to Team Canada this year ... the Blackhawks stupidly let both of those guys go after Bowman left but he brought both of those guys in as GM.

 

[TheNumber4]

Bowman's three moves that's he been allowed to make (Podkolzin for a 4th, Kapanen for nothing, Emberson + dumping Ceci) haven't been bad.

I'm not going to fault him for the offer sheet situation, Jackson and Holland dug that grave, it's not really Bowman's fault they walked into that grenade.

I'm willing to give Bowman a bit of a chance. I see in Chicago he did make some underrated steals ... Dylan Strome who has been fantastic this year ... Brandon Hagel just named to Team Canada this year ... the Blackhawks stupidly let both of those guys go after Bowman left but he brought both of those guys in as GM.

I didn't realize that Bowman had brought both of those guys in and both were let go after he left. Interesting. Shows he atleast can identify talent. Let's hope he continues to make bets but the Oilers as a team can do more with them before they are deemed expendable.

 

[Soundwave]

I didn't realize that Bowman had brought both of those guys in and both were let go after he left. Interesting. Shows he atleast can identify talent. Let's hope he continues to make bets but the Oilers as a team can do more with them before they are deemed expendable.

Hagel - On pace for 103 points, makes Team Canada
D. Strome - On pace for 111 points

Both Bowman signings/trades, both let go by Chicago.

People here complaining about Foegele and McLeod, lol, I'd be beyond livid as a Blackhawks fan.

 

[TheNumber4]

Hagel - On pace for 103 points, makes Team Canada
D. Strome - On pace for 111 points

Both Bowman signings/trades, both let go by Chicago.

Triple Whammy now that Bedard is floundering with a shit-tier team to play with and no good forwards to create with.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I would've tried to retain Holloway. That one IMO hurt the most because he was a local and likeable guy that played a gritty game. Broberg wanted out and didn't make the most of his opportunity until his last chance here.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

I would've tried to retain Holloway. That one IMO hurt the most because he was a local and likeable guy that played a gritty game. Broberg wanted out and didn't make the most of his opportunity until his last chance here.

Ya we could use Holly's skillset so much right now. The Oilers seemed to not have a plan, kind of like Lowe saying holy cow I signed a lot of forwards.

The blues were able to refresh their roster with just a 3rd and 2nd round pick. It was disgusting mismanagement by the Oilers

 

[Jumptheshark]

JJ's comments today annoy me. How the hell did they not see it coming?

On the main board they predicted it would happen

Speculation: - Is Broberg a prime candidate for an offer sheet?

Holloway too but Broberg is more intriguing. Oilers are currently around 2.4 mil over the cap with Broberg and Holloway still needing a contract. A team can offer-sheet Broberg a contract at 4.5 mil and the Oilers would be put in bad situation. If they let Broberg go at the price point then...

forums.hfboards.com

and he is the problem from this time last year

Seravalli: - Broberg/agent requesting a trade (mod: title updated, Oilers didn’t give permission to Broberg to seek a trade)

forums.hfboards.com

trade request was never rescinded

 

[Drivesaitl]

Foegele scores again tonight. Again the winning goal for the Kings. So that departed Forwards we would've been paying less for in Foegele, McLeod, Holloway now running away with the race having outscored the more expensive Arvid, Skinner, Pods 21-9. You wanna laugh but...

 

[Soundwave]

Foegele scores again tonight. Again the winning goal for the Kings. So that departed Forwards we would've been paying less for in Foegele, McLeod, Holloway now running away with the race having outscored the more expensive Arvid, Skinner, Pods 21-9. You wanna laugh but...

And how many goals did those three have last year here at game 25?

Was there a no scoring ordinance in effect?