The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[Drivesaitl]

The result on the ice says we don't have a reliable 2nd line. Are we just supposed to pretend that hasn't been the case for like 10 years?

The stats bear it out too, it's not that hard to look at scoring logs and see they're on the ice for 60+% of their offense this year.

That may be good for them, but it's not really ideal for a Cup contender, it would be far more ideal if their offense was more like 70-80% apart as it is for Crosby/Malkin, because it's harder to defend a team with two scoring lines instead of our setup.

Gee, Drai has wingers that rarely score anywhere, on any team Connor Brown on one side, and Podkolzin on the other side. You want me to list their goals scored the past 3yrs? I can count them on two hands.... yeah Its Drais fault these guys rarely score. lol

Funny enough is even dud wingers Drai finds a way to get some EV pts playing with the D even when not with McD.

The easy answer to why the 2nd line isn't clicking is Connor Brown hasn't clicked in years and neither has Podkolzin aside from a 3 goal stint. Both of these players have had all kinds of opportunity. its quite clear neither should remain in a topsix. Argument could be made for Pods staying but IF there is a production 2nd on the line. You can't expect Drai to be doing too much with these combined wingers.

Man, Id' have Stecher as a Winger before Connor Brown. lol jk actually.

 

[Fourier]

If I can mention that Crosby and Malkin have also had the PMD offensive D Letang there the whole time. McDrai haven't had a D that is around PPG until Booch popped up. Makes a big difference in offense. Booch is the first offense gamebreaker D McDrai have had. Until Ekholm it could be said the Oilers haven't had any stud D the whole time. Offense often starts with the defense. This was demonstrated indelibly in the Pronger year where several players had 20pt appreciation in seasonal stats. Several having their career best production year that year, because of a superstar D like Pronger. Players in Tampa, Dallas, Colorado, etc. They always have that generational D starting plays.

I completely agree that the high end offensive defenseman matters. In fact in today's NHL it is probably as important or even more important than having another impact forward on the line.

The result on the ice says we don't have a reliable 2nd line. Are we just supposed to pretend that hasn't been the case for like 10 years?

The stats bear it out too, it's not that hard to look at scoring logs and see they're on the ice together for about 63% of their offense this year.

That may be good for them, but it's not really ideal for a Cup contender, it would be far more ideal if their offense was more like 70-80% apart as it is for Crosby/Malkin, because it's harder to defend a team with two scoring lines instead of our setup.

I literally showed you that the stats don't back up your claim.

 

[Soundwave]

I completely agree that the high end offensive defenseman matters. In fact in today's NHL it is probably as important or even more important than having another impact forward on the line.


I literally showed you that the stats don't back up your claim.

What's the Oilers 2nd scoring line then?

And the stats also show 63%+ of their offence this year comes with each other on the ice. Is that what two scoring lines looks like to you?

Gee, Drai has wingers that rarely score anywhere, on any team Connor Brown on one side, and Podkolzin on the other side. You want me to list their goals scored the past 3yrs? I can count them on two hands.... yeah Its Drais fault these guys rarely score. lol

Funny enough is even dud wingers Drai finds a way to get some EV pts playing with the D even when not with McD.

The easy answer to why the 2nd line isn't clicking is Connor Brown hasn't clicked in years and neither has Podkolzin aside from a 3 goal stint. Both of these players have had all kinds of opportunity. its quite clear neither should remain in a topsix. Argument could be made for Pods staying but IF there is a production 2nd on the line. You can't expect Drai to be doing too much with these combined wingers.

Man, Id' have Stecher as a Winger before Connor Brown. lol jk actually.

Skinner and Arvidsson have multiple 20 and 30 plus seasons in this league and both scored at a 20+ goal rate a season ago.

If that's not good enough to get any scoring whatsoever with Draisaitl, exactly where do we even go? How many wingers are going to be available in a UFA season that are a Zack Hyman and even work in the cap structure?

Last year McLeod/Foegele worked for a burst and then stopped working on that 2nd line and had to be moved off. There's never a combination that ever clicks long term.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What's the Oilers 2nd scoring line then?

And the stats also show 63%+ of their offence this year comes with each other on the ice. Is that what two scoring lines looks like to you?



Skinner and Arvidsson have multiple 20 and 30 plus seasons in this league and both scored at a 20+ goal rate a season ago.

If that's not good enough to get any scoring whatsoever with Draisaitl, exactly where do we even go? How many wingers are going to be available in a UFA season that are a Zack Hyman and even work in the cap structure?

Last year McLeod/Foegele worked for a burst and then stopped working on that 2nd line and had to be moved off. There's never a combination that ever clicks long term.

You keep bleating this on and on. NEITHER Skinner or Arvid were going to be on first unit PP this season. You talk about the current Arvid as if he's some scorer. He has averaged less EV goals than foegele for the last several seasons. It was nonsense always that Arvid was going to be a scorer here and frankly Foegele is a better option and more teeth in game.

Skinner came here as a career floater. Our coach is KK. I knew indelibly how this was going to work out. Yes Skinner can score. He can also be a GA nightmare. But not sure how its Drais fault too that Skinner isn't scoring when he's not even on his line. Damn Drai and that 2nd line. lol

 

[Fourier]

What's the Oilers 2nd scoring line then?

And the stats also show 63%+ of their offence this year comes with each other on the ice. Is that what two scoring lines looks like to you?



Skinner and Arvidsson have multiple 20 and 30 plus seasons in this league and both scored at a 20+ goal rate a season ago.

If that's not good enough to get any scoring whatsoever with Draisaitl, exactly where do we even go? How many wingers are going to be available in a UFA season that are a Zack Hyman and even work in the cap structure?

Last year McLeod/Foegele worked for a burst and then stopped working on that 2nd line and had to be moved off. There's never a combination that ever clicks long term.

My numbers were for the last three years which is a much larger sample size. Your original premise was that Leon and McDavid were finnicky and that separate from one another they could not generate the type of numbers Crosby and Malkin did apart. That is just not the case.

If your focus is only on this year then yes, they have not had a consistent second line in good part because of injuries to Hyman, Kane and Arvidsson but also because of ridiculously low shooting percentages. Leon's line away from Connor has a GF/60 of 1.54 this year but an xGF/60 of 2.54. Their on ice sh% is 4.72%. But the GA numbers are also much lower than normal. With Leon on but not Connor the GA/60 is 1.23 so the GF% is 55.56%.

The Oilers issue offensively this year is primarily on the pp and a lack of finish. Both tend to even out over a full season.

 

[Duke74]

What's the Oilers 2nd scoring line then?

And the stats also show 63%+ of their offence this year comes with each other on the ice. Is that what two scoring lines looks like to you?



Skinner and Arvidsson have multiple 20 and 30 plus seasons in this league and both scored at a 20+ goal rate a season ago.

If that's not good enough to get any scoring whatsoever with Draisaitl, exactly where do we even go? How many wingers are going to be available in a UFA season that are a Zack Hyman and even work in the cap structure?

Last year McLeod/Foegele worked for a burst and then stopped working on that 2nd line and had to be moved off. There's never a combination that ever clicks long term.

Draisaitl hasn't spend much time with Skinner and Arvidsson, or at least Skinner. I think Knoblauch tried that for three games before splitting up that configuration. Even now, McDavid still gets the two cherry wingers in RNH and Hyman while Draisaitl gets stuck with fourth-line dregs. Not only that, but McDavid almost always gets the Bouch-Ekholm pairing while Draisaitl has to work with second or third string defenseman. If Draisaitl had at least one decent winger in RNH on his line and sometimes the first defensive pairing, the second line would be a lot better. But Knoblauch seems determined to give McDavid all of the advantages.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Draisaitl hasn't spend much time with Skinner and Arvidsson, or at least Skinner. I think Knoblauch tried that for three games before splitting up that configuration. Even now, McDavid still gets the two cherry wingers in RNH and Hyman while Draisaitl gets stuck with fourth-line dregs. Not only that, but McDavid almost always gets the Bouch-Ekholm pairing while Draisaitl has to work with second or third string defenseman. If Draisaitl had at least one decent winger in RNH on his line and sometimes the first defensive pairing, the second line would be a lot better. But Knoblauch seems determined to give McDavid all of the advantages.

Its without even debate that McD QOT has been off the charts compared to what Drai getting. McD basically gets the first unit PP minus Drai. Drai gets wingers that should be in bottomsix.

lets look at it. McD is getting Booch, an offensive D superstar that went OVER PPG just last season, he's got Nuge who had 104pts just a year ago, and he's got Hyman off 55 goals. As if that isn't enough he's got Eckholm too. Thats a 5 player unit that is unmatched anywhere in league imo. Its a LOADED first line.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Its without even debate that McD QOT has been off the charts compared to what Drai getting. McD basically gets the first unit PP minus Drai. Drai gets wingers that should be in bottomsix.

lets look at it. McD is getting Booch, an offensive D superstar that went OVER PPG just last season, he's got Nuge who had 104pts just a year ago, and he's got Hyman off 55 goals. As if that isn't enough he's got Eckholm too. Thats a 5 player unit that is unmatched anywhere in league imo. Its a LOADED first line.

Oddly enough with those 3 on the ice.

They outscore the opposition 10-3 in 114:25

McDavid/Bouchard they get outscored 7-11 in 189:06

Draisaitl/Bouchard they get outscored 3-5 in 104:13

 

[Soundwave]

Its without even debate that McD QOT has been off the charts compared to what Drai getting. McD basically gets the first unit PP minus Drai. Drai gets wingers that should be in bottomsix.

lets look at it. McD is getting Booch, an offensive D superstar that went OVER PPG just last season, he's got Nuge who had 104pts just a year ago, and he's got Hyman off 55 goals. As if that isn't enough he's got Eckholm too. Thats a 5 player unit that is unmatched anywhere in league imo. Its a LOADED first line.

It's loaded because of him though.

Hyman and RNH don't score anywhere near those totals without McDavid, Bouchard probably not either.

Hyman is a 25-35 goal scorer without McDavid, RNH welp we know how he goes that 104 point season was a massive outlier.

 

[Duke74]

It's loaded because of him though.

Hyman and RNH don't score anywhere near those totals without McDavid, Bouchard probably not either.

Hyman is a 25-35 goal scorer without McDavid, RNH welp we know how he goes that 104 point season was a massive outlier.

I do agree that Hyman works better with McDavid than with Draisaitl. However, RNH has shown proven success with Draisaitl. In fact, I think that his style meshes more with Draisaitl than McDavid. RNH's passing finesse complements Draisaitl's goal-scoring ability. They had that stretch in 2020 where they worked really well together before Tippett had a brain fart and split them up. After that, they have only had sporadic moments together at even strength. I'd like to see RNH and Draisaitl get a longer look together while McDavid plays with Skinner and Hyman.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I do agree that Hyman works better with McDavid than with Draisaitl. However, RNH has shown proven success with Draisaitl. In fact, I think that his style meshes more with Draisaitl than McDavid. RNH's passing finesse complements Draisaitl's goal-scoring ability. They had that stretch in 2020 where they worked really well together before Tippett had a brain fart and split them up. After that, they have only had sporadic moments together at even strength. I'd like to see RNH and Draisaitl get a longer look together while McDavid plays with Skinner and Hyman.

McD works better with quick strike players at least EV. theres a lot of scoring on rush with McD and Hyman knows where to setup, Helps to have the Booch-Ekholm paring as mentioned who support offense well, jump up, and evens score goals.

Strikes me that Leon works better with players strong on puck and that can cycle and retain puck well. Which is one reason why Nuge works well with Drai. Didn't understand why Kapanen didn't immediately go to Drai as well. Seems more of a fit, but they wanted him filling in for Hyman.

Would love to see Drai get a big strong winger as well that can pot some. Pods fills some of the boxes but not the most critical one.

 

[Duke74]

McD works better with quick strike players at least EV. theres a lot of scoring on rush with McD and Hyman knows where to setup, Helps to have the Booch-Ekholm paring as mentioned who support offense well, jump up, and evens score goals.

Strikes me that Leon works better with players strong on puck and that can cycle and retain puck well. Which is one reason why Nuge works well with Drai. Didn't understand why Kapanen didn't immediately go to Drai as well. Seems more of a fit, but they wanted him filling in for Hyman.

Would love to see Drai get a big strong winger as well that can pot some. Pods fills some of the boxes but not the most critical one.

Agreed. Pod would work well as the third wheel on a Draisaitl-RNH line, retrieving pucks, navigating corners, and banging bodies, all of which would create space for the former two to make plays.

 

[Stoneman89]

Draisaitl hasn't spend much time with Skinner and Arvidsson, or at least Skinner. I think Knoblauch tried that for three games before splitting up that configuration. Even now, McDavid still gets the two cherry wingers in RNH and Hyman while Draisaitl gets stuck with fourth-line dregs. Not only that, but McDavid almost always gets the Bouch-Ekholm pairing while Draisaitl has to work with second or third string defenseman. If Draisaitl had at least one decent winger in RNH on his line and sometimes the first defensive pairing, the second line would be a lot better. But Knoblauch seems determined to give McDavid all of the advantages.

But is Nuge still a "Cherry winger"? Not from what I've seen.

 

[Duke74]

But is Nuge still a "Cherry winger"? Not from what I've seen.

He's had a bit of a slow start to the year but he's still better that most of what Draisaitl has played with. I think their skillsets would complement one another.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Holloway may score 30 this year
That hurts

 

[Spawn]

Broberg sucks to lose, but the $4.5M was almost impossible to make fit.

Walking away from Holloway because we didn't want to give him $2M... ugh

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holloway absolutely bossing in STL. Their best player by miles tonight and not for the first time. Blues telecast drooling over this players skills, rightfully. That OT goal is another star player goal. Blazing down the wing and in premium speed tucking the puck in the only place it could go. What a goal. Again. Knew this was gonna hurt losing the kid but man what we lost. Holloway is flying. 5G 4A 9pts in his last 6GP. No misprint. Those are star numbers. He's barely 23. He was all over this game again.

The guy might score 30 this season. He's probably a lock for 25G. Oilers were absoluely asleep on this player. sigh.

Broberg sucks to lose, but the $4.5M was almost impossible to make fit.

Walking away from Holloway because we didn't want to give him $2M... ugh

WE give Arvid 4MX2 instead and J Goof Skinner 3M. Instead of just paying a ringer that you already have. The Oilers don't match and Holloway ALONE is outscoring the 3 forwards we brought in. sigh

 

[McAsuno]

Never should've let Holloway go. Could give a rats ass about soft shit Broberg. Really hope Hollywood decides to come back here once he's a UFA. Absolute failure on not re-signing him by JJ and Bowman.

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

Oilers gonna oil. Always

 

[Drivesaitl]

Never should've let Holloway go. Could give a rats ass about soft shit Broberg. Really hope Hollywood decides to come back here once he's a UFA. Absolute failure on not re-signing him by JJ and Bowman.

Remember how much flak I was getting in real time in July for suggesting that the Arvid and Skinner deals were awful in context and did nothing to help the club? Then again when people were telling me to shut up because we've lost nothing in Holloway. jebus.

"he's just a nothing player" many here said. but as per usual that was just the copium. We lost him so people decided he was awful.

WE could have this same impact player here.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Both lack the most important quality, commitment to winning.

Meanwhile other guys are taking less to win. We’ll see who’s having more of an impact in May.

 

[McAsuno]

Remember how much flak I was getting in real time in July for suggesting that the Arvid and Skinner deals were awful in context and did nothing to help the club? Then again when people were telling me to shut up because we've lost nothing in Holloway. jebus.

"he's just a nothing player" many here said. but as per usual that was just the copium. We lost him so people decided he was awful.

WE could have this same impact player here.

I still personally think Arvy and Skinner will be fine. Just didn't make sense to lose a young speedy sparkplug in Holloway though.

 

[Spawn]

Remember how much flak I was getting in real time in July for suggesting that the Arvid and Skinner deals were awful in context and did nothing to help the club? Then again when people were telling me to shut up because we've lost nothing in Holloway. jebus.

"he's just a nothing player" many here said. but as per usual that was just the copium. We lost him so people decided he was awful.

WE could have this same impact player here.

Arvidsson and Skinner didn’t even stop the Oilers from matching the Holloway offer. It was purely the Oilers valuing the ability to accrue cap space for the deadline over keeping Holloway.

Oilers could have started the season with the exact same roster they did if you swapped out Holloway for Podkolzin. The only change that would have needed to have been made would be having Philp as the 4C instead of Ryan. A move that honestly would have made the team better anyway.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Arvidsson and Skinner didn’t even stop the Oilers from matching the Holloway offer. It was purely the Oilers valuing the ability to accrue cap space for the deadline over keeping Holloway.

Its salt in the wound anytime I'm watching Arvid or Skinner though. Hasn't been much to like in these two so far. Holloway was a player I saw turning a corner. Was always a fan. Thought we needed the motor he brings.

 

[TheNumber4]

Just remind yourself he’s a flames fan and move on…..

Or when Hall Sr. comes back our hearts will be mended.