The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[Soundwave]

This reeks of new management desperately trying to blame previous for things that happened on their watch.

Hindsight is 20/20 at this moment they f***ed up bad.

Bowman is another extremely poor cap manager and between him and JJ signings they left no money to retain either.

I shouldn't be surprised but I am. It's math, they didn't have the money to sign either. That's on them and no one else.

Removing Hindsight they should have been able to at least sign Holloway over who they picked up. And after broberg amazing playoffs obviously more cap space should have been available for him than they had. I don't think it's fair to say 4+ mill but obviously more than what they had.

Bowman is a crap hire and it took even less time than I thought to prove it.

Jackson screwed the situation up by not taking care of both of them in June, but granted lots of teams wait until late August/Sept. to take care of their UFAs, the Oilers did the same thing with McLeod.

By the time Bowman was hired, Broberg's camp was already knee deep into hunting for an offer sheet.

Bowman got the Blackhawks Dylan Strome and Brandon Hagel two young players who are on pace for 100+ points this year, Hagel just made Team Canada over Hyman. The Hawks let both players go stupidly and are now paying a big price for it, but I give Bowman credit for two slam dunk finds there. I'll give him some leash, not much, but some. Emberson in/Ceci out, Podkolzin, Kapanen have all been decent enough moves with not much given up.

 

[Arpeggio]

I haven't watched Holloway at all this season, and you can't really argue with his numbers. But, strictly comparing last year's Holloway to this year's Podkolzin, Podkolzin has been better. He brings it more consistently and plays a much more physical game.

Broberg is what it is, you're just not signing him at 5 million, and he wasn't going to sign a low deal last January when he hasn't been able to carve a spot out in the lineup, there's no reason for him to sign that contract early when things can only get better (like they did when he worked his way into the playoff lineup).

It all just is what it is. Could've signed Holloway over Skinner or Arvidsson, but I still think both end up being big players for us down the stretch. They did a decent job replacing both with young guys (Podkolzin and Emberson), and if they are able to add a really good defenceman with the cap space, they might come out ahead in the short term.

 

[Fourier]

Jackson screwed the situation up by not taking care of both of them in June, but granted lots of teams wait until late August/Sept. to take care of their UFAs, the Oilers did the same thing with McLeod.

By the time Bowman was hired, Broberg's camp was already knee deep into hunting for an offer sheet.

Bowman got the Blackhawks Dylan Strome and Brandon Hagel two young players who are on pace for 100+ points this year, Hagel just made Team Canada over Hyman. The Hawks let both players go stupidly and are now paying a big price for it, but I give Bowman credit for two slam dunk finds there. I'll give him some leash, not much, but some. Emberson in/Ceci out, Podkolzin, Kapanen have all been decent enough moves with not much given up.

By June I think it was too late. The more I learn the more I am convinced that Broberg was looking to leave and was going to look for an OS regardless of what the Oilers did. Holloway I suspect could have been signed in June.

 

[Stauf4Prez]

I hope the boo-bird raaaaaaaaaain down on them HARD tomorrow at Rogers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It does looks absolutely damning for McDavid and Draisaitl. Players like McLeod, Foegele, Holloway get away from them and become better contributors, and meanwhile we’ve brought in perennial 20-30 goals scorers who can’t seem to mesh with these guys either. Going on a decade with those two unable to sustain consistent linemates and they’ve had a variety of different types of wingers including proven top 6ers and yet nobody ever sticks, all they can do is take 50-60 pt players like RNH and Hyman and turn them into 70-80 pt players pumping their point totals on the power play.

When you’re paying two guys 21M combined, soon to be 28M combined, I think it’s fair to expect these guys to be able to adjust their games to elevate players around them beyond pumping guys points on the PP but with 97/29 it’s always the same story, keep up or get off our lines, but there are a very small number of players who can do that so it always ends up in the same place, those two playing together because nobody else can play with them.

This isn't what I would derive from it at all. Drai was making players like McLeod, Fogele, Holloway happen when he was with them. They weren't together enough. They would often produce some goals when together. More than Skinner or Arvid are.

Right now Drai is playing with Connor Brown and Pods. Thats just nuts. Did you see Brown again botching empty net chances yesterday? He's an absolute dud at this point. Arvid was injured goods coming in here coming off two recent back surgeries and being a player who is chronically injured. They player we were getting wasn't gonna be much and I outlined in July that Foegele had scored just as many goals as Arvid outside PP. Arvid in LA was on PP a fair amount. His EV scoring wasn't much. It hasn't been for years.

Skinner? Thats a different story. Generational players, the one thing they will not abide is playing with floaters. I doubt either McD or Drai particularly want the inconsistent Skinner on their line. Drai has inordinate patience with players but probably not with players that just don't play hard.

What people slept on is that Foegele did actually score 20G here this year. His pace in LA is just what he put up here, just looking more impressive now because none of the guys here are going. McLeod scored a dozen last year on limited minutes and having a lot of pk, ownzone work etc. Holloway last year factoring in reg season and playoff scoring was showing a 15G pace prorated. He's expectedly doing more than that now but his scoring was ramping up. He did very well as a 22yr old considering Oilers have offered him limited opportunity up in the show.

But to land on blaming McD and Drai who are involved in 68% of this teams offense is curious. Is it their fault when the new wingers are doing f*** all? Drai was feeding Arvid 5 chances a night until Arvid got injured again.

 

[JarvisFunk]

I haven't watched Holloway at all this season, and you can't really argue with his numbers. But, strictly comparing last year's Holloway to this year's Podkolzin, Podkolzin has been better. He brings it more consistently and plays a much more physical game.

Broberg is what it is, you're just not signing him at 5 million, and he wasn't going to sign a low deal last January when he hasn't been able to carve a spot out in the lineup, there's no reason for him to sign that contract early when things can only get better (like they did when he worked his way into the playoff lineup).

It all just is what it is. Could've signed Holloway over Skinner or Arvidsson, but I still think both end up being big players for us down the stretch. They did a decent job replacing both with young guys (Podkolzin and Emberson), and if they are able to add a really good defenceman with the cap space, they might come out ahead in the short term.

This years Emberson has also been MILES better than last years Broberg.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I haven't watched Holloway at all this season, and you can't really argue with his numbers. But, strictly comparing last year's Holloway to this year's Podkolzin, Podkolzin has been better. He brings it more consistently and plays a much more physical game.

Broberg is what it is, you're just not signing him at 5 million, and he wasn't going to sign a low deal last January when he hasn't been able to carve a spot out in the lineup, there's no reason for him to sign that contract early when things can only get better (like they did when he worked his way into the playoff lineup).

It all just is what it is. Could've signed Holloway over Skinner or Arvidsson, but I still think both end up being big players for us down the stretch. They did a decent job replacing both with young guys (Podkolzin and Emberson), and if they are able to add a really good defenceman with the cap space, they might come out ahead in the short term.

Broberg is worth about 6mil the way he's playing. He's been fantastic.

Holloway is currently much better than Podz.

Those guys made a great decision. They are slotted perfectly there

 

[Drivesaitl]

I haven't watched Holloway at all this season, and you can't really argue with his numbers. But, strictly comparing last year's Holloway to this year's Podkolzin, Podkolzin has been better. He brings it more consistently and plays a much more physical game.

Broberg is what it is, you're just not signing him at 5 million, and he wasn't going to sign a low deal last January when he hasn't been able to carve a spot out in the lineup, there's no reason for him to sign that contract early when things can only get better (like they did when he worked his way into the playoff lineup).

It all just is what it is. Could've signed Holloway over Skinner or Arvidsson, but I still think both end up being big players for us down the stretch. They did a decent job replacing both with young guys (Podkolzin and Emberson), and if they are able to add a really good defenceman with the cap space, they might come out ahead in the short term.

Odd comment. Holloway scored 11G in 61G last season and playoffs. Prorates to 15. AS a 22yr old. He did that while spending vast majority of his minutes in bottomsix in what was an often sleepy bottomsix last season. Pods is somebody that on basis of career scores rarely and has extended scoreless streaks and that is spending vast majority of his minutes with one of the best Centers and passers in the world. He has 3 goals. Sure he hits, sure he's strong, he brings aspects but Holloway has potential still to be a legit topsix player in this league. Pods is unlikely to reach 11G all season.

Holloway was pretty consistently physical. The question was around injuries and staying in lineup. As he gets into his man strength probably easier to do that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Broberg is worth about 6mil the way he's playing. He's been fantastic.

Holloway is currently much better than Podz.

Those guys made a great decision. They are slotted perfectly there

Both are impact players in many of the Blues games this season. Would require not watching any of it to come up with conclusion that Pods is somehow better.

Wouldn't say Bro is worth 6M yet but he's a stud D potentially that we lost for nothing. Holloway a potential power forward as well.

Really Blues would be an awful club without the contributions of Broberg and Holloway.

Holloway is 2nd in Goals, pts with the blues behind only Kyrou.

Bro right there with Paryko in leading D for pts. Bro is flirting with PPG.

Both Holloway and Bro with the least GA.min and both +7, best on the Blues. Basically Blues are seeing offense from these two and very little problems when they are on ice. They have been in the handful of top Blues players this season.

 

[Arpeggio]

Odd comment. Holloway scored 11G in 61G last season and playoffs. Prorates to 15. AS a 22yr old. He did that while spending vast majority of his minutes in bottomsix in what was an often sleepy bottomsix last season. Pods is somebody that on basis of career scores rarely and has extended scoreless streaks and that is spending vast majority of his minutes with one of the best Centers and passers in the world. He has 3 goals. Sure he hits, sure he's strong, he brings aspects but Holloway has potential still to be a legit topsix player in this league. Pods is unlikely to reach 11G all season.

Holloway was pretty consistently physical. The question was around injuries and staying in lineup. As he gets into his man strength probably easier to do that.

It's not odd. In the context of comparing this year's team to last year's team, Podkolzin has brought more so far than Holloway did. Obviously I'd take Holloway's 8 goals right now. But last season, I didn't find him that impressive until the playoffs tbh. They've done an adequate job of replacing Holloway with another similar young player who has upside (Podkolzin's scored 15 prorated goals in a season too). Podkolzin has done more with his opportunity in the top six than Holloway did last year.

The gamble was Skinner/Arvidsson against Holloway. I know where you land on that, but we'll see how it shakes out at the end of the season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's not odd. In the context of comparing this year's team to last year's team, Podkolzin has brought more so far than Holloway did. Obviously I'd take Holloway's 8 goals right now. But last season, I didn't find him that impressive until the playoffs tbh. They've done an adequate job of replacing Holloway with another similar young player who has upside (Podkolzin's scored 15 prorated goals in a season too). Podkolzin has done more with his opportunity in the top six than Holloway did last year.

The gamble was Skinner/Arvidsson against Holloway. I know where you land on that, but we'll see how it shakes out at the end of the season.

Holloway scored 6 goals in 36G last season as a 22yr old. Added another 5/25G in playoffs as a 22yr old. Again he did most of that scoring playing most of his time in bottomsix. Had he been parked with DRai all season like Pods is he'd probably hit 15-20 goals.

Pods has already had more games of Drai than Holloway ever had. But even given all that Holloway still scored more goals as a 22yr old than Pods likely will this year, who is turning 24 this season.

The gamble was that Skinner, Arviddson, Pods, at appreciably more cost would replace the offense of Holloway, Foegele, Mcleod, the three forwards we lost. So that we paid more and got less and with no upside at all in these older players.

Finally, Pods scored almost all of his NHL goals rookie. Season. Offense has completely dried up since. In last 3 seasons Pods has a paltry 7Goals across 90 NHL games. In last 2 seasons Holloway across 90 games. has scored 19G.(Including playoffs for both players) Pretty clear to see where the respective players are trending.

Holloway has also scored 14G's now in his last 65 reg season games if you want to look at it that way. He's trending already to be a 20G player and is blowing even the best Pods season out of the water. Holloway sitting at a 25G pace right now.

 

[Fourier]

It does looks absolutely damning for McDavid and Draisaitl. Players like McLeod, Foegele, Holloway get away from them and become better contributors, and meanwhile we’ve brought in perennial 20-30 goals scorers who can’t seem to mesh with these guys either. Going on a decade with those two unable to sustain consistent linemates and they’ve had a variety of different types of wingers including proven top 6ers and yet nobody ever sticks, all they can do is take 50-60 pt players like RNH and Hyman and turn them into 70-80 pt players pumping their point totals on the power play.

When you’re paying two guys 21M combined, soon to be 28M combined, I think it’s fair to expect these guys to be able to adjust their games to elevate players around them beyond pumping guys points on the PP but with 97/29 it’s always the same story, keep up or get off our lines, but there are a very small number of players who can do that so it always ends up in the same place, those two playing together because nobody else can play with them.

Holloway in St. Louis: 1.70 pts/60 5 vs 5.
Holloway with McDavid: 2.53 pts/60 5 vs 5
Holloway with Draisaitl: 0 pts/60 5 vs 5


McLeod in Buffalo: 1.68 pts/60 5 vs 5
McLeod with McDavid last year: 3.64 pts/60 5 vs 5
McLeod with Draisaitl last year: 3.54 pts/60 5 vs 5

Foegele in LA: 2.4 pts/60 5 vs 5
Foegele with McDavid last year: 2.35 pts.60
Foegele with Draisaitl last year: 2.94 pts.60

 

[Da McBomb]

So do the Oilers give both players a Welcome back to Oil Country tribute video in the first period?

 

[McShogun99]

So do the Oilers give both players a Welcome back to Oil Country tribute video in the first period?

Broberg's tribute video is just clips of him getting sent down to the AHL.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Broberg is putting up points but he's getting outchanced heavy. He's currently rocking a 45% xgf, which would be by far the worst among the Oilers Dmen. Difference is, he has an on ice sv% of .971!! That won't last. I'm not saying he isn't good, but they're putting him into the top pair, letting him eat up minutes, and hoping he gets better. As of now, he isn't better in his role than Ekholm, Kulak, or Nurse.

Holloway, I would've kept him all day. Loved him in the playoffs. Fast, physical, great shot, good offensive instincts. On pace for a 20 goal season in his first full year in the NHL. He was money in the playoffs last year so we shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holloway in St. Louis: 1.70 pts/60 5 vs 5.
Holloway with McDavid: 2.53 pts/60 5 vs 5
Holloway with Draisaitl: 0 pts/60 5 vs 5


McLeod in Buffalo: 1.68 pts/60 5 vs 5
McLeod with McDavid last year: 3.64 pts/60 5 vs 5
McLeod with Draisaitl last year: 3.54 pts/60 5 vs 5

Foegele in LA: 2.4 pts/60 5 vs 5
Foegele with McDavid last year: 2.35 pts.60
Foegele with Draisaitl last year: 2.94 pts.60

Thanks for quantifying this. yes, both Foegele and McLeod, and it was usually at the same time had good production when with Drai. With Drai or McD as it turns out. Holloway was in on a few scoring plays with Drai in playoffs including a couple of beauties.

Not sure why some fans here have such a penchant for suggesting that Drai and McD are not fostering player success here. No basis for that opinion.

 

[Mr Positive]

Broberg is putting up points but he's getting outchanced heavy. He's currently rocking a 45% xgf, which would be by far the worst among the Oilers Dmen. Difference is, he has an on ice sv% of .971!! That won't last. I'm not saying he isn't good, but they're putting him into the top pair, letting him eat up minutes, and hoping he gets better. As of now, he isn't better in his role than Ekholm, Kulak, or Nurse.

Holloway, I would've kept him all day. Loved him in the playoffs. Fast, physical, great shot, good offensive instincts. On pace for a 20 goal season in his first full year in the NHL. He was money in the playoffs last year so we shouldn't be surprised.

He's still very young for a D and will only get better. Even if there are stats like that, it's not hard to chart the upward trajectory

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He's still very young for a D and will only get better. Even if there are stats like that, it's not hard to chart the upward trajectory

I think this is the point. The big picture is a young age 23 d-man is capably logging all situational 20:38 toi keeping his head above water with +7 on an essentially .500 team with -12 goal share along with 58.6% d-zone starts. His EV zone time splits mirror team averages, 41.4% (41) o-zone and z-zone 40.5% (40.4). He's 5th in team toi but essential 4th with Leddy out most of the season. NHL 97% percentile for top skating speed bursts over 20MPH, NHL 79 percentile for speed. Clearly 12 points in 15 games isn't sustainable. The body of work is what matters.

Very clear upward mobility arrows on a d-man that hasn't yet entered peak performance range for the position. He's also a player that had a solid fancy stats 12+ game run with Evan Bouchard before the Ekholm trade.

Lost for a 2nd round lottery ticket. Good work Oilers management!

 

[stewy04]

I just remembered how Zegras was the next coming of Jesus and Broberg was a waste of a pick and now he's gone.... oh Broberg you handsome top 4 left hand d man! The seasons over and Zegras is OK?...

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Broberg looked how I expected. Talented, rangy and inexperienced. His AAV on a team looking to win a cup this season and next would've been a tough fit. That said, Holloway IMO was our biggest loss. Fast, good size, gritty and a + shot. Oh well, life goes on and we should be cheering on the guys that took less to win and stay here.

 

[tiger_80]

It looks like both players are thriving in St. Louis. Really a shame they could not lock them up due to cap constraints. Even if they matched the OS, it would be worth it.

 

[LTIR]

He's still very young for a D and will only get better. Even if there are stats like that, it's not hard to chart the upward trajectory

You can't teach brain or assertiveness..
Broberg will not live upto his salary or QO afterwards. He is the athanasiou of Dmen

 

[tiger_80]

meh, Holloway will max out as a 15-20 goal guy, maybe 40-50 points I think
I love his speed but he won't provide much offense IMO

Broberg is a real loss...big, mobile defenders that can skate like him don't grow on trees. Even if he maxes out as a Jay Bouwmeester-lite, that's a damn good player

He's gonna easily exceed that this year.

You can't teach brain or assertiveness..
Broberg will not live upto his salary or QO afterwards. He is the athanasiou of Dmen

He's averaging 25 mins a night. He'd be easily the top 4 on the Oilers afte the departure of Ceci.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Broberg looked how I expected. Talented, rangy and inexperienced. His AAV on a team looking to win a cup this season and next would've been a tough fit. That said, Holloway IMO was our biggest loss. Fast, good size, gritty and a + shot. Oh well, life goes on and we should be cheering on the guys that took less to win and stay here.

Holloway looks to be unpacking a bit of power forward game but some impressive skating and jumping into spots and good moving puck. He was probably the best Blue tonight and has been on a lot of nights. Scored a goal, barely missed on a deflection, several other shots off. But he was better with the puck EV than any other Blue who were coughing it up all day. Holloway looked better than anybody on Blues first line tonight. Not sure whats up with Thomas. His game really seems to have gone down. Bushnevich a nightmare with turnovers.

 

[LTIR]

He's gonna easily exceed that this year.


He's averaging 25 mins a night. He'd be easily the top 4 on the Oilers afte the departure of Ceci.

Broberg would be fighting Kulak for 3rd pairing LD spot behind both Nurse and Ekholm on the left side.