CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
they did in 8 gamesLol you think they put that up in the first 7 games
Broberg has 2G and 7pts
Holloway has 3G and 4pts
they did in 8 gamesLol you think they put that up in the first 7 games
Thank god this has it's own thread.
Losing two guys who put up a combined 11 points for us last year is not why this team is struggling out the gates.
This coupled with their absolutely abysmal drafting has created all sorts of problems that sadly probably won't be addressed. The prospect pool is very barren.It's not just about how the team is doing now, it's about losing assets for nothing yet again. This team has been piss-poorly managed during the McDrai era and it's absolutely frustrating as a fan to think about what could have been.
All we can deal with is the facts. This is what they currently have. Would they have the same totals with the Oilers? Who knows, but our offense has been shit so far. A few more goals and maybe the mood around here isn't despair.they did in 8 games
Broberg has 2G and 7pts
Holloway has 3G and 4pts
In terms of champions, it is sad that we have pretty much passed our peak window. We wasted away years where we could have won multiple like PITT/CHI.The Oilers clearly managed the Broberg and Holloway situation horrifically. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise--just elite level incompetence. And there is no doubt some hyperbole about how well Broberg, Holloway, and I would add McLeod, are doing. But the Oilers' terrible management of assets is an entirely legitimate area of criticism. When you have a team on the cusp of being a champion team, mismanagement like that may be the difference between a modern dynasty and a one-and-done cup win (or no cup wins).
I can't stand how this organization big-brains their decisions sometimes.
Dvorsky, 3rd time the charm?first it was neighbours and now hofer. afraid you all are going to be disappointed again!
Also funny how everyone gave Nurse the benefit of the doubt when he was young too.And yet here the player is arriving at age 23 as an NHL top 4 defenseman. After stepping up in the game's most difficult level of competition. The premature rush to judgement has been funny to follow as it was initially f*** should have taken Zegras then when he stalled out became a litany of other names. This was always about projecting the raw abilities of size, skating, and modern era defending game with reach and gap control with ability to transport pucks out of own zone.
The player's game starting to come into focus with hard miles development put in and a clear position and runway to play through team and individual dips in play on his strong side with quality veteran partner. Looking like Holland's scouting belief and projection were on point.
Far too easy to jump to premature conclusions on young NHL defensemen.
Specious.Thank god this has it's own thread.
Losing two guys who put up a combined 11 points for us last year is not why this team is struggling out the gates.
Or add their playoff pts which I just did.could use their 5 goals and 11 points this year though couldn't we?
Yep. Its the thing. I'll take Ekholms word on it over anybody. He felt Broberg was a real talent and had all the tools. The ONLY aspect with this player was strength, but the player had already rounded into a 215lb fine broth of a lad at only age 23. Get his man strength and stronger in battle and surviving contact. Once he's skating and with puck on stick never much doubt. He was fantastic in his short stint in playoffs. The worst Bro was gonna likely be is a top 4 D somewhere and with all kinds of upside.Yeah, I don't get the people mocking cap space accrual. They're the same folks that would be dumping all over management if they had to do the ole money in money out thing at the deadline.
I'm still bitter about losing Broberg but at 4.6m, you're either taking the leap of faith with him with no cap flexibility to add at the deadline or have the flexibility to add a player more proven at the deadline to help more in the short term.
Personally, I was more in the let Broberg go at that number camp when it happened but I'm starting to really change my mind on that. What happens if the Oilers let go of a 10 year top pairing Dman, down the line? It's quite possible with his trajectory. He's already establishing as solid top 4.
Either way, it was a tough decision. The question is, can they find a Dman better than Broberg even currently is? Ehh, I don't know.
Can they find a Dman that will be better than him long term? Even more unlikely.
Yeah. I don't know that any player would really want out from this Oilers team had they been utilized all along. Seems to be a blanket faith argument defending Oilers org in any situation assuming the player would not want to be here. Its easy enough to make players happy if you include them and make them a part of things. Prospects hunger for chances and why wouldn't they? I'd worry more about prospects that were too nervous to be up in the show. Broberg was in his first games in NHL but got more comfortable at some point. He wanted to be a regular in an NHL lineup. Not just the pay, but to be regularly a player. The Oilers went from granting him 23 games rookie season to 46 sophomore season and ramped back alarmingly to only 12 games last season. It seemed to be moving the wrong direction with deployment of Broberg here so he wanted out in order to be in NHL. Not at all a rare thing with young prospects. STL will certainly give him that action. He's not a bit consideration there. He's getting every game, considerable minutes and on PP. He must be loving it.He wanted out early last season when he was 7th or 8th defender. 7th or 8th defender behind plugs like Desharnais.
He didn't want out after coach K eventually realised he was better than most defenders in the organisations and started playing him regularly in the Stanley Cup. Instead he requested 1.8 Million and a one way contract. The Oilers brass refused and didn't return to the negotiations.
Broberg would have been an Oiler earning 1.8 mil had we seen competent management. But management preferred useless playes like Dermott, Emberson and Stetcher over Broberg and Ceci. Sad...
No room for this logic in this thread.Yeah. I don't know that any player would really want out from this Oilers team had they been utilized all along. Seems to be a blanket faith argument defending Oilers org in any situation assuming the player would not want to be here. Its easy enough to make players happy if you include them and make them a part of things. Prospects hunger for chances and why wouldn't they? I'd worry more about prospects that were too nervous to be up in the show. Broberg was in his first games in NHL but got more comfortable at some point. He wanted to be a regular in an NHL lineup. Not just the pay, but to be regularly a player. The Oilers went from granting him 23 games rookie season to 46 sophomore season and ramped back alarmingly to only 12 games last season. It seemed to be moving the wrong direction with deployment of Broberg here so he wanted out in order to be in NHL. Not at all a rare thing with young prospects. STL will certainly give him that action. He's not a bit consideration there. He's getting every game, considerable minutes and on PP. He must be loving it.
I'm not an advanced stats guy. I've never understood how expected stats hold any sort of relevance at all. Does anyone actually think Foegele is going to lead the team in goals this year and become a player he's never been before?Yep. Its the thing. I'll take Ekholms word on it over anybody. He felt Broberg was a real talent and had all the tools. The ONLY aspect with this player was strength, but the player had already rounded into a 215lb fine broth of a lad at only age 23. Get his man strength and stronger in battle and surviving contact. Once he's skating and with puck on stick never much doubt. He was fantastic in his short stint in playoffs. The worst Bro was gonna likely be is a top 4 D somewhere and with all kinds of upside.
My main question re Broberg was he going to be able to handle NHL physicality and how quick the game is. He handled both of those questions. By end of playoffs I was ecstatic about the player.
Again the Oilers were paying a D like Ceci 4M and with no upside. No Diss to Ceci, certainly not my favorite, but he's a guy as well that looks better anywhere else than here. The latter is area of concern. Should I raise the point that all of Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Foegele are doing better away from the Oilers? On teams that have more faith in the players. Foegele has been pumped in LA every game. Leading the whole LA team in expected goals this season. He's been the Foegele that teases with some skill but in LA putting it together every game so far. First star last night in LA home opener.
In terms of champions, it is sad that we have pretty much passed our peak window. We wasted away years where we could have won multiple like PITT/CHI.
Our top 2 players are statistically past their primes now. The goal now is to basically win 1 while they are here (if McDavid stays). Core is getting older.
I was citing it more for a lark. I don't like the stat either. heheI'm not an advanced stats guy. I've never understood how expected stats hold any sort of relevance at all. Does anyone actually think Foegele is going to lead the team in goals this year and become a player he's never been before?
In 8 games he has 3 goals and 3 points. 2 of those came in one game against SJ.
They preferred geriatrics over athletes.After what I have seen so far this year. Id rather have Broberg and Holloway at 6 or 7 million rathan than Arvidsson and Emberson for 5 million.
Not to refute overall point but some proviso.Let's not be overly dramatic shall we?
When Pittsburgh won their 2nd cup in 2016 and their third in 2017. Malkin was turning 30 and 31 and Crosby was turning 29 and 30.
Draisaitl is turning 29 in two days and McDavid isn't turning 28 until January.
We obviously missed the opportunity to have a cup win during their ELC... but if we win a cup this year they will both be the ~same age as Malkin and Crosby's 2nd cup.
You have more a of a point with Chicago, as they build from D out... so were able to take advantage of youthful forwards on ELC. But still, in 2015 Kane was turning 27, Toews was already 27 and Keith was 32.
You forgot Tampa: when they won their first cup with this core, Stamkos was 30, Hedman was 29, Kucherov was 27. Obviously a year older when they won their 2nd.
Vegas: nearly everyone (save Eichel & Theodore) was in their early thirties (Stone, Marchessault, Pietrangelo)
It seems to me that 28, 29, 30 are the PRIME years to win a championship.
I look at it as a 4-6 year window as long as they can get the proper support for McDrai.Let's not be overly dramatic shall we?
When Pittsburgh won their 2nd cup in 2016 and their third in 2017. Malkin was turning 30 and 31 and Crosby was turning 29 and 30.
Draisaitl is turning 29 in two days and McDavid isn't turning 28 until January.
We obviously missed the opportunity to have a cup win during their ELC... but if we win a cup this year they will both be the ~same age as Malkin and Crosby's 2nd cup.
You have more a of a point with Chicago, as they build from D out... so were able to take advantage of youthful forwards on ELC. But still, in 2015 Kane was turning 27, Toews was already 27 and Keith was 32.
You forgot Tampa: when they won their first cup with this core, Stamkos was 30, Hedman was 29, Kucherov was 27. Obviously a year older when they won their 2nd.
Vegas: nearly everyone (save Eichel & Theodore) was in their early thirties (Stone, Marchessault, Pietrangelo)
It seems to me that 28, 29, 30 are the PRIME years to win a championship.
I don't see how this window extends beyond 2-3 years if that. I think it might be shut already tbh, Drai's performance level seems to already be falling off. Then you have Hyman, RNH and Nurse who have already peaked all signed long term btw. Ekholm is still very good but he's in his mid 30s, how long is this going to keep up? It's likely that he's peaked already as well.I look at it as a 4-6 year window as long as they can get the proper support for McDrai.
I am with you here. We need to make 1-2 homerun trades to get contributing younger guys in the lineup.I don't see how this window extends beyond 2-3 years if that. I think it might be shut already tbh, Drai's performance level seems to already be falling off. Then you have Hyman, RNH and Nurse who have already peaked. Ekholm is still very good but he's in his mid 30s, how long is this going to keep up? It's likely that he's peaked already as well.
Then there's very little in the prospect cupboard to fill in the gaps and the roster is about to get way more expensive. I personally think the last 2 seasons was their real Cup window. You can never count out a team with McDavid and Draisaitl but they're at the very end of their Cup window IMO.
They will always be somewhat competitive as long as McDavid can still skate at high speeds but in terms of Cup contention, it's dwindling fast.