The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[AUAIOMRN]

Thank god this has it's own thread.

Losing two guys who put up a combined 11 points for us last year is not why this team is struggling out the gates.

It's not just about how the team is doing now, it's about losing assets for nothing yet again. This team has been piss-poorly managed during the McDrai era and it's absolutely frustrating as a fan to think about what could have been.

 

[soothsayer]

The Oilers clearly managed the Broberg and Holloway situation horrifically. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise--just elite level incompetence. And there is no doubt some hyperbole about how well Broberg, Holloway, and I would add McLeod, are doing. But the Oilers' terrible management of assets is an entirely legitimate area of criticism. When you have a team on the cusp of being a champion team, mismanagement like that may be the difference between a modern dynasty and a one-and-done cup win (or no cup wins).

I can't stand how this organization big-brains their decisions sometimes.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's not just about how the team is doing now, it's about losing assets for nothing yet again. This team has been piss-poorly managed during the McDrai era and it's absolutely frustrating as a fan to think about what could have been.

This coupled with their absolutely abysmal drafting has created all sorts of problems that sadly probably won't be addressed. The prospect pool is very barren.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

they did in 8 games
Broberg has 2G and 7pts
Holloway has 3G and 4pts

All we can deal with is the facts. This is what they currently have. Would they have the same totals with the Oilers? Who knows, but our offense has been shit so far. A few more goals and maybe the mood around here isn't despair.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

The Oilers clearly managed the Broberg and Holloway situation horrifically. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise--just elite level incompetence. And there is no doubt some hyperbole about how well Broberg, Holloway, and I would add McLeod, are doing. But the Oilers' terrible management of assets is an entirely legitimate area of criticism. When you have a team on the cusp of being a champion team, mismanagement like that may be the difference between a modern dynasty and a one-and-done cup win (or no cup wins).

I can't stand how this organization big-brains their decisions sometimes.

In terms of champions, it is sad that we have pretty much passed our peak window. We wasted away years where we could have won multiple like PITT/CHI.

Our top 2 players are statistically past their primes now. The goal now is to basically win 1 while they are here (if McDavid stays). Core is getting older.

 

[bobbythebrain]

How is it possible Cody Ceci has passed the greatness level of Martin Marancin?
I thought that was untouchabile

 

[GOilers88]

And yet here the player is arriving at age 23 as an NHL top 4 defenseman. After stepping up in the game's most difficult level of competition. The premature rush to judgement has been funny to follow as it was initially f*** should have taken Zegras then when he stalled out became a litany of other names. This was always about projecting the raw abilities of size, skating, and modern era defending game with reach and gap control with ability to transport pucks out of own zone.

The player's game starting to come into focus with hard miles development put in and a clear position and runway to play through team and individual dips in play on his strong side with quality veteran partner. Looking like Holland's scouting belief and projection were on point.

Far too easy to jump to premature conclusions on young NHL defensemen.

Also funny how everyone gave Nurse the benefit of the doubt when he was young too.

"Defensemen take longer to develop" was used all the time. But with Broberg it was different for a lot of people. He was just a bust.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thank god this has it's own thread.

Losing two guys who put up a combined 11 points for us last year is not why this team is struggling out the gates.

Specious.

Ever hear of proration? Holloway only played 38games for us in regular season. Combine it with his playoffs and he scored 11G for us last season while adding 5 assists. That makes 16pts Prorate tht to full season and its a 15 goal season for a raw young player.

Broberg? 4G 4A in a combined playoffs/reg season in only 22GP. Prorates to 30some pts for a raw D who was clearly figuring it out.

Both are prorated to full seasons on the logical basis that both would be in the lineup full seasons here had the Oilers not gong another way.

Do you or anybody actually disagree these would be starting players this season?

could use their 5 goals and 11 points this year though couldn't we?

Or add their playoff pts which I just did.

Odd as well the same poster had no difficulty at all with Connor Brown being in the lineup this season and last season despite running far worse numbers than young potential filled Holloway.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah, I don't get the people mocking cap space accrual. They're the same folks that would be dumping all over management if they had to do the ole money in money out thing at the deadline.

I'm still bitter about losing Broberg but at 4.6m, you're either taking the leap of faith with him with no cap flexibility to add at the deadline or have the flexibility to add a player more proven at the deadline to help more in the short term.

Personally, I was more in the let Broberg go at that number camp when it happened but I'm starting to really change my mind on that. What happens if the Oilers let go of a 10 year top pairing Dman, down the line? It's quite possible with his trajectory. He's already establishing as solid top 4.
Either way, it was a tough decision. The question is, can they find a Dman better than Broberg even currently is? Ehh, I don't know.
Can they find a Dman that will be better than him long term? Even more unlikely.

Yep. Its the thing. I'll take Ekholms word on it over anybody. He felt Broberg was a real talent and had all the tools. The ONLY aspect with this player was strength, but the player had already rounded into a 215lb fine broth of a lad at only age 23. Get his man strength and stronger in battle and surviving contact. Once he's skating and with puck on stick never much doubt. He was fantastic in his short stint in playoffs. The worst Bro was gonna likely be is a top 4 D somewhere and with all kinds of upside.

My main question re Broberg was he going to be able to handle NHL physicality and how quick the game is. He handled both of those questions. By end of playoffs I was ecstatic about the player.

Again the Oilers were paying a D like Ceci 4M and with no upside. No Diss to Ceci, certainly not my favorite, but he's a guy as well that looks better anywhere else than here. The latter is area of concern. Should I raise the point that all of Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Foegele are doing better away from the Oilers? On teams that have more faith in the players. Foegele has been pumped in LA every game. Leading the whole LA team in expected goals this season. He's been the Foegele that teases with some skill but in LA putting it together every game so far. First star last night in LA home opener.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He wanted out early last season when he was 7th or 8th defender. 7th or 8th defender behind plugs like Desharnais.

He didn't want out after coach K eventually realised he was better than most defenders in the organisations and started playing him regularly in the Stanley Cup. Instead he requested 1.8 Million and a one way contract. The Oilers brass refused and didn't return to the negotiations.

Broberg would have been an Oiler earning 1.8 mil had we seen competent management. But management preferred useless playes like Dermott, Emberson and Stetcher over Broberg and Ceci. Sad...

Yeah. I don't know that any player would really want out from this Oilers team had they been utilized all along. Seems to be a blanket faith argument defending Oilers org in any situation assuming the player would not want to be here. Its easy enough to make players happy if you include them and make them a part of things. Prospects hunger for chances and why wouldn't they? I'd worry more about prospects that were too nervous to be up in the show. Broberg was in his first games in NHL but got more comfortable at some point. He wanted to be a regular in an NHL lineup. Not just the pay, but to be regularly a player. The Oilers went from granting him 23 games rookie season to 46 sophomore season and ramped back alarmingly to only 12 games last season. It seemed to be moving the wrong direction with deployment of Broberg here so he wanted out in order to be in NHL. Not at all a rare thing with young prospects. STL will certainly give him that action. He's not a bit consideration there. He's getting every game, considerable minutes and on PP. He must be loving it.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Yeah. I don't know that any player would really want out from this Oilers team had they been utilized all along. Seems to be a blanket faith argument defending Oilers org in any situation assuming the player would not want to be here. Its easy enough to make players happy if you include them and make them a part of things. Prospects hunger for chances and why wouldn't they? I'd worry more about prospects that were too nervous to be up in the show. Broberg was in his first games in NHL but got more comfortable at some point. He wanted to be a regular in an NHL lineup. Not just the pay, but to be regularly a player. The Oilers went from granting him 23 games rookie season to 46 sophomore season and ramped back alarmingly to only 12 games last season. It seemed to be moving the wrong direction with deployment of Broberg here so he wanted out in order to be in NHL. Not at all a rare thing with young prospects. STL will certainly give him that action. He's not a bit consideration there. He's getting every game, considerable minutes and on PP. He must be loving it.

No room for this logic in this thread.

Broberg is a bum for not signing with us.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I'm sure when Bowman revisted w/ Broberg his stance didn't change despite his playoff usage.
The thought of having to play on your offside while babysitting Nurse is a recipe for failure.

He was never gonna stay

 

[GOilers88]

Yep. Its the thing. I'll take Ekholms word on it over anybody. He felt Broberg was a real talent and had all the tools. The ONLY aspect with this player was strength, but the player had already rounded into a 215lb fine broth of a lad at only age 23. Get his man strength and stronger in battle and surviving contact. Once he's skating and with puck on stick never much doubt. He was fantastic in his short stint in playoffs. The worst Bro was gonna likely be is a top 4 D somewhere and with all kinds of upside.

My main question re Broberg was he going to be able to handle NHL physicality and how quick the game is. He handled both of those questions. By end of playoffs I was ecstatic about the player.

Again the Oilers were paying a D like Ceci 4M and with no upside. No Diss to Ceci, certainly not my favorite, but he's a guy as well that looks better anywhere else than here. The latter is area of concern. Should I raise the point that all of Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Foegele are doing better away from the Oilers? On teams that have more faith in the players. Foegele has been pumped in LA every game. Leading the whole LA team in expected goals this season. He's been the Foegele that teases with some skill but in LA putting it together every game so far. First star last night in LA home opener.

I'm not an advanced stats guy. I've never understood how expected stats hold any sort of relevance at all. Does anyone actually think Foegele is going to lead the team in goals this year and become a player he's never been before?

In 8 games he has 3 goals and 3 points. 2 of those came in one game against SJ last night. He's provided nothing in 75% of the GP so far. Now I acknowledge this is a little silly because it's such a small number of games. But I just don't understand how leading in expected goals means anything at all.

 

[bucks_oil]

In terms of champions, it is sad that we have pretty much passed our peak window. We wasted away years where we could have won multiple like PITT/CHI.

Our top 2 players are statistically past their primes now. The goal now is to basically win 1 while they are here (if McDavid stays). Core is getting older.

Let's not be overly dramatic shall we?

When Pittsburgh won their 2nd cup in 2016 and their third in 2017. Malkin was turning 30 and 31 and Crosby was turning 29 and 30.

Draisaitl is turning 29 in two days and McDavid isn't turning 28 until January.

We obviously missed the opportunity to have a cup win during their ELC... but if we win a cup this year they will both be the ~same age as Malkin and Crosby's 2nd cup.

You have more a of a point with Chicago, as they build from D out... so were able to take advantage of youthful forwards on ELC. But still, in 2015 Kane was turning 27, Toews was already 27 and Keith was 32.

You forgot Tampa: when they won their first cup with this core, Stamkos was 30, Hedman was 29, Kucherov was 27. Obviously a year older when they won their 2nd.

Vegas: nearly everyone (save Eichel & Theodore) was in their early thirties (Stone, Marchessault, Pietrangelo)

It seems to me that 28, 29, 30 are the PRIME years to win a championship.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not an advanced stats guy. I've never understood how expected stats hold any sort of relevance at all. Does anyone actually think Foegele is going to lead the team in goals this year and become a player he's never been before?

In 8 games he has 3 goals and 3 points. 2 of those came in one game against SJ.

I was citing it more for a lark. I don't like the stat either. hehe

Foegele teases. Its what he does. He's careful enough to play a game like this to get fans on his side for awhile. It was no accident this was LA first home game and first time they see him as a King and that Foegele is onboard for all that.

He's that kind of player. He was in Carolina, here, now in LA. One of the most up and down players, but somewhere that player manages to score 15 non PP goals on average yearly which is pretty decent supporting production.

Given his start its not outside Foegele type average for him to finish around 20 goals given he scores one goal per 5Games career average. Even on averages this puts him at 18 goals on this season.

 

[BlackDogg]

After what I have seen so far this year. Id rather have Broberg and Holloway at 6 or 7 million rathan than Arvidsson and Emberson for 5 million.

They preferred geriatrics over athletes.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Let's not be overly dramatic shall we?

When Pittsburgh won their 2nd cup in 2016 and their third in 2017. Malkin was turning 30 and 31 and Crosby was turning 29 and 30.

Draisaitl is turning 29 in two days and McDavid isn't turning 28 until January.

We obviously missed the opportunity to have a cup win during their ELC... but if we win a cup this year they will both be the ~same age as Malkin and Crosby's 2nd cup.

You have more a of a point with Chicago, as they build from D out... so were able to take advantage of youthful forwards on ELC. But still, in 2015 Kane was turning 27, Toews was already 27 and Keith was 32.

You forgot Tampa: when they won their first cup with this core, Stamkos was 30, Hedman was 29, Kucherov was 27. Obviously a year older when they won their 2nd.

Vegas: nearly everyone (save Eichel & Theodore) was in their early thirties (Stone, Marchessault, Pietrangelo)

It seems to me that 28, 29, 30 are the PRIME years to win a championship.

Not to refute overall point but some proviso.

Pittsburgh won cups with a deep supporting cast and not a throwaway player in the lineup. Lots of help there and better goaltending and it is the EC, which jmo its easier for a good club to get through playoffs on that bracket.

Tampa won two cups during the very disrupted Covid years. These were very atypical years and seasons and playoffs. I don't know those wins are anything but outlier, but again with a team that was deep at every spot, had freakishly good goaltending, and generational D. Tampa were loaded and playing against clubs in Covid disarray. It was about as typical as the first NHL season post salary cap.

Vegas wouldn't have won jack squat without youth like Eichel and never did before or after. Eichel put them over the top for a one and done team where all the cards fell into place.

We don't have a young Eichel superstar in lineup ad we don't have a generational D and we certainly don't have any legend goalies here.

All the teams you mention were loaded. The Oilers are not.

Not to say the Oilers can't be around it but it looks to be a stiffer WC playoff picture this post season. All of Dallas, Winnipeg, Colorado look improved. We can advance out of Pacific but I don't see this roster getting through a Conference Final without key improvements at TDL.

 

[McShogun99]

Let's not be overly dramatic shall we?

When Pittsburgh won their 2nd cup in 2016 and their third in 2017. Malkin was turning 30 and 31 and Crosby was turning 29 and 30.

Draisaitl is turning 29 in two days and McDavid isn't turning 28 until January.

We obviously missed the opportunity to have a cup win during their ELC... but if we win a cup this year they will both be the ~same age as Malkin and Crosby's 2nd cup.

You have more a of a point with Chicago, as they build from D out... so were able to take advantage of youthful forwards on ELC. But still, in 2015 Kane was turning 27, Toews was already 27 and Keith was 32.

You forgot Tampa: when they won their first cup with this core, Stamkos was 30, Hedman was 29, Kucherov was 27. Obviously a year older when they won their 2nd.

Vegas: nearly everyone (save Eichel & Theodore) was in their early thirties (Stone, Marchessault, Pietrangelo)

It seems to me that 28, 29, 30 are the PRIME years to win a championship.

I look at it as a 4-6 year window as long as they can get the proper support for McDrai.

 

[CupofOil]

I look at it as a 4-6 year window as long as they can get the proper support for McDrai.

I don't see how this window extends beyond 2-3 years if that. I think it might be shut already tbh, Drai's performance level seems to already be falling off. Then you have Hyman, RNH and Nurse who have already peaked all signed long term btw. Ekholm is still very good but he's in his mid 30s, how long is this going to keep up? It's likely that he's peaked already as well.
Skinner, what is he exactly? Nobody really knows.

Then there's very little in the prospect cupboard to fill in the gaps and the roster is about to get way more expensive. I personally think the last 2 seasons was their real Cup window. You can never count out a team with McDavid and Draisaitl but they're at the very end of their Cup window IMO.
They will always be somewhat competitive as long as McDavid can still skate at high speeds but in terms of Cup contention, it's dwindling fast.

Losing a young blossoming Broberg and Holloway to a much lesser extent is a big blow long term, that can't be stated enough.
If they would have been able to dump the Nurse contract and fit in Broberg long term, I'd feel way better about a Bouchard/Broberg combo with a wily vet Ekholm manning the blueline going forward, with Nurse cap space to boot but as is this franchise is in trouble going forward. They really wasted the Peak McDavid/Draisaitl, a crime for hockey if I've ever seen one. Chia/Holland really did a number on this franchise.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

I don't see how this window extends beyond 2-3 years if that. I think it might be shut already tbh, Drai's performance level seems to already be falling off. Then you have Hyman, RNH and Nurse who have already peaked. Ekholm is still very good but he's in his mid 30s, how long is this going to keep up? It's likely that he's peaked already as well.

Then there's very little in the prospect cupboard to fill in the gaps and the roster is about to get way more expensive. I personally think the last 2 seasons was their real Cup window. You can never count out a team with McDavid and Draisaitl but they're at the very end of their Cup window IMO.
They will always be somewhat competitive as long as McDavid can still skate at high speeds but in terms of Cup contention, it's dwindling fast.

I am with you here. We need to make 1-2 homerun trades to get contributing younger guys in the lineup.

 

[Zguy370]

I am with you here. We need to make 1-2 homerun trades to get contributing younger guys in the lineup.

Looking for trades though is also what 29 other teams will be looking for to improve their roster, but what pisses me off is when you have an upcoming star at D like Broberg, thread discussion, that is in your back pocket and you literally give him away as a gift to the Blues, people running this org are Clueless.

 

[McShogun99]

I don't see how this window extends beyond 2-3 years if that. I think it might be shut already tbh, Drai's performance level seems to already be falling off. Then you have Hyman, RNH and Nurse who have already peaked all signed long term btw. Ekholm is still very good but he's in his mid 30s, how long is this going to keep up? It's likely that he's peaked already as well.
Skinner, what is he exactly? Nobody really knows.

Then there's very little in the prospect cupboard to fill in the gaps and the roster is about to get way more expensive. I personally think the last 2 seasons was their real Cup window. You can never count out a team with McDavid and Draisaitl but they're at the very end of their Cup window IMO.
They will always be somewhat competitive as long as McDavid can still skate at high speeds but in terms of Cup contention, it's dwindling fast.

Losing a young blossoming Broberg and Holloway to a much lesser extent is a big blow long term, that can't be stated enough.
If they would have been able to dump the Nurse contract and fit in Broberg long term, I'd feel way better about a Bouchard/Broberg combo with a wily vet Ekholm manning the blueline going forward, with Nurse cap space to boot but as is this franchise is in trouble going forward. They really wasted the Peak McDavid/Draisaitl, a crime for hockey if I've ever seen one. Chia/Holland really did a number on this franchise.

I’m saying 4-6 years because that’s probably how many elite years of McDrai that we have left. We’ll see turnover during that time with the older players and hopefully the young guys like Savoie, O’Reilly and Akeuy can be major contributors. Look at Crosby and Malkin, both near 40 and still considered top players in the league.

 

[Stoneman89]

Still a long way to go before the final results are in and tabulated. It's like elections--6 months is an eternity until the carbon tax vote. Anything can happen..

And just like that, Holloway pots a couple last night.

He wanted out early last season when he was 7th or 8th defender. 7th or 8th defender behind plugs like Desharnais.

He didn't want out after coach K eventually realised he was better than most defenders in the organisations and started playing him regularly in the Stanley Cup. Instead he requested 1.8 Million and a one way contract. The Oilers brass refused and didn't return to the negotiations.

Broberg would have been an Oiler earning 1.8 mil had we seen competent management. But management preferred useless playes like Dermott, Emberson and Stetcher over Broberg and Ceci. Sad...

I don't know that I ever saw the bolded. Where are you getting that from? Is there a link?

 

[TB12]

Goodness. Of all the threads I've read....

this is definitely one of them.

 

[guymez]

Losing Ceci is not the problem.

The Oilers aren't scoring and Skinner has had another slow start. Ceci doesn't remedy any of these things and he's been garbage, at least by the numbers, with the Sharks.

The problems are that the top guys haven't woken up fully yet, Arvidsson, Hyman and RNH have been big fat zeros, the 3rd line isn't scoring and the goaltending poop. The defense has actually been fine for the most part.

I would say that losing Ceci (and to a lesser extent Deharnais) adds to the problem. The defence from 4-6 is much thinner than it was last season and that is a big issue. If Stecher was a solution to anything then he would have been playing a lot more last season. Emberson and Dermott...welll their play speaks for itself although Emberson might be a player if he is handled correctly.
Based on what we have seen so far i dont have much faith in that.

The Oilers are also giving up far too many grade A chances...just like last year at this time.
That is due in part to the leadershoip group and their lack of commitment to defence.
McDavid and Draisaitl are part of that issue.
Draisaitl leads the team in penalty minutes because of lazy and/or selfish play on his part. Just another issue (that isnt conducive to winning) thats layered on top of everything else.

I agree with you about the lack of scoring.
IMO they arent scoring (in large part) due to just not bearing down on chances. Over passing has been an issue.

Lots to clean up and improving the roster is a big part of what needs to be fixed.

Its pretty clear to me that this team is just not committed to winning just yet and the results bear that out.