The Jarmo Thread

[BB88]

Marchenko was drafted in 2018. He spent the next season in the VHL and MHL. Then he spent the next season in the VHL and KHL. Then two more seasons mostly in the KHL. There was one year he was actually in the US during prospect camp and didn’t come. This board went nuts over that. Looking back, it was a smart move on his part. Marchenko was 22 and 4 years past his draft year when he started working out with this team. Yes, drafting him was good. But he was developed in Russia.

What I hate about this site is the overly optimistic views. This team is bad. I have objective measures I can point to that demonstrate it is bad. Just look at the standings. This team has not accomplished anything ever. It has made it to the second round of the playoffs once. Yet there were people who keep saying we are almost there and want to keep Jarmo even though he has been here for almost half the franchise’s existence. At the beginning of the season you were on this board saying we have one of the best defenses in the eastern conference. What do you think now? It is the Pollyannas that make me want to leave this board.

You’ve just accepted darkness and nothing can help.
Marchenko is exaclty the player he is today as he was one the 1st day of arriving, marvelous job

& for the bolded I didn’t say this year I said longterm with Werenski, Jiricek, Mateychuk etc. But I guess whatever helps your agenda.

 

[koteka]

You're confusing being wholly negative with being objective.

When the objective measures are all negative…

There are some positive things about this team, but I don’t know that they are as important to discuss now. The #1 thing should be getting rid of the front office. You might notice I rarely say negative things about specific players, and I haven’t really said anything about Vincent. I am more focused on the construction of the team which I believe is really bad.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

What I hate about this site is the overly optimistic views.

I’m the complete opposite. Reading constant doom is tiring. Ultimately following the team is a hobby and I don’t know why I’d want to have a hobby that pisses me off. Maybe some people enjoy being negative? It’s always the losses that have double the posts than the wins in the game threads

 

[koteka]

I’m the complete opposite. Reading constant doom is tiring. Ultimately following the team is a hobby and I don’t know why I’d want to have a hobby that pisses me off. Maybe some people enjoy being negative? It’s always the losses that have double the posts than the wins in the game threads

I usually stay out of game day threads as the game is going on, so I get that. I sometimes read the other team’s game day thread which I can tell you is often more negative than ours.

But I get tired of things like the constant overvaluing our players or thinking that because we have a promising center prospect that our center problems are solved. The over hyping of our defense really drives me crazy because I care a lot about hockey defense,

 

[BB88]

I’m the complete opposite. Reading constant doom is tiring. Ultimately following the team is a hobby and I don’t know why I’d want to have a hobby that pisses me off. Maybe some people enjoy being negative? It’s always the losses that have double the posts than the wins in the game threads

Yep.

Everything is always the worst and nothing good can happen or they can do nothing right.

I doubt we have a single poster here who thinks they’ve done a perfect job but we seem to have lot of them who think everything is bad and they deserve zero credit for anything

Like for example their recent drafting looks really good, they seem to be hitting with their top picks and have multiple later round gems developing= not because of them, just pure luck or everyone else did the job for them

Can’t even imagine the praise they’d have if they had the Rangers drafting skills.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I usually stay out of game day threads as the game is going on, so I get that. I sometimes read the other team’s game day thread which I can tell you is often more negative than ours.

But I get tired of things like the constant overvaluing our players or thinking that because we have a promising center prospect that our center problems are solved. The over hyping of our defense really drives me crazy because I care a lot about hockey defense,

The stuff that’s the worst is when people make statements with no analysis to back them up. I get sick of reading posts that simply say “xxxx sucks” or “yyyy is doing a terrible job”. At least give some reasons

 

[majormajor]

When the objective measures are all negative…

Marchenko has 7 pts in his last 5 games, and looks like our best player. He's taken a massive step in the last year.

Yegor Chinakhov has 9 pts in his last 5 games.

Kent Johnson has 8 pts in his last 6 games.

Adam Fantilli has 8 pts in his last 7 games.

This ought to be a great time to be following a young team. We ought to be giddy about it. This is amazing.

 

[koteka]

Marchenko has 7 pts in his last 5 games, and looks like our best player. He's taken a massive step in the last year.

Yegor Chinakhov has 9 pts in his last 5 games.

Kent Johnson has 8 pts in his last 6 games.

Adam Fantilli has 8 pts in his last 7 games.

This ought to be a great time to be following a young team. We ought to be giddy about it. This is amazing.

If some people in the front office were fired and McConnell came out and said something like “We haven’t treated our young players as well as we should have. From dismissing complaints about Babcock to telling people to get apartments and then sending them to the AHL, we need to be better with listening to our players and communicating expectations to our players.” then I might start getting more excited about the young guys. As it is, at least 3 of our young guys have expressed dissatisfaction with the team or talked about wanting out. And I can’t blame them. I wouldn’t want to be associated with a dumpster fire of a franchise.

 

[Monk]

I wouldn’t want to be associated with a dumpster fire of a franchise.

Sorta begs the question....

 

[majormajor]

If some people in the front office were fired and McConnell came out and said something like “We haven’t treated our young players as well as we should have. From dismissing complaints about Babcock to telling people to get apartments and then sending them to the AHL, we need to be better with listening to our players and communicating expectations to our players.” then I might start getting more excited about the young guys. As it is, at least 3 of our young guys have expressed dissatisfaction with the team or talked about wanting out. And I can’t blame them. I wouldn’t want to be associated with a dumpster fire of a franchise.

The point was that some of the objective measures are looking really damn good in the last couple weeks.

 

[koteka]

Sorta begs the question....

I am a fan. I am stuck. If I were an employee, you could be sure I’d have a different attitude.

I left a major corporation with a great reputation because it was treating people like crap. Then I watched it rather publicly go down hill over the next several years. Can’t say that I was surprised.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I am a fan. I am stuck. If I were an employee, you could be sure I’d have a different attitude.

I left a major corporation with a great reputation because it was treating people like crap. Then I watched it rather publicly go down hill over the next several years. Can’t say that I was surprised.

You aren’t stuck. We are all free agents.

 

[Napoli]

I agree with some of the points @koteka is making.

This team's defense IS bad. Like really poorly constructed. I'm not sure there's one guy who I like in our own zone.

That said, there's also a lot good things about this team that has many fans justifiably excited. The Russians are great, honestly they are the main reason I watch this team. Add Fantilli flying into the zone and it's fun to watch, sometimes...

Credit where credit is due, Jarmo is a beast at drafting. I have never said a bad thing about it, I trust him fully with our picks. He's also had a pretty good track record with trades, I can't say he's disappointed in that regard either.

Contract wise he's been bad, from playing hardball unnecessarily to giving out stupid term and money to players that aren't worth it (to put in nicely.)

The roster construction is the most frustrating part because he's had years to put together this team (over a decade actually). His idea of a good defense in how he evaluates professional talent has been awful imo. I hate the way this defense is set up, they are truly terrible in their own zone.

People have a hard time seeing it all as sunshine and rainbows because the team isn't great. It's been a while with him at the wheel and it's time for someone else to have a chance. They are spending quite a bit in the salary cap and are still going to finish in the last 10 of the league. What's really telling to Jarmo's incompetence was how Priest came out and said how disappointed he and management were about this team and their start. They believed they were going to be better. That spells failure from Jarmo, we're at year I don't even know of that.

Time for someone new, whatever GM comes in they will have some great young talent and prospects but we need someone with more experience who can construct a better team and have them take the next step. Keep Jarmo on to scout/draft if he still wants a job.

 

[Fred Glover]

I agree with some of the points @koteka is making.

This team's defense IS bad. Like really poorly constructed. I'm not sure there's one guy who I like in our own zone.

That said, there's also a lot good things about this team that has many fans justifiably excited. The Russians are great, honestly they are the main reason I watch this team. Add Fantilli flying into the zone and it's fun to watch, sometimes...

Credit where credit is due, Jarmo is a beast at drafting. I have never said a bad thing about it, I trust him fully with our picks. He's also had a pretty good track record with trades, I can't say he's disappointed in that regard either.

Contract wise he's been bad, from playing hardball unnecessarily to giving out stupid term and money to players that aren't worth it (to put in nicely.)

The roster construction is the most frustrating part because he's had years to put together this team (over a decade actually). His idea of a good defense in how he evaluates professional talent has been awful imo. I hate the way this defense is set up, they are truly terrible in their own zone.

People have a hard time seeing it all as sunshine and rainbows because the team isn't great. It's been a while with him at the wheel and it's time for someone else to have a chance. They are spending quite a bit in the salary cap and are still going to finish in the last 10 of the league. What's really telling to Jarmo's incompetence was how Priest came out and said how disappointed he and management were about this team and their start. They believed they were going to be better. That spells failure from Jarmo, we're at year I don't even know of that.

Time for someone new, whatever GM comes in they will have some great young talent and prospects but we need someone with more experience who can construct a better team and have them take the next step. Keep Jarmo on to scout/draft if he still wants a job.

Can't disagree. I will only add that young defensemen take time to develop (so I am told). I would really like to see our younger promising defensemen who are playing in Cleveland brought up to play in place of Peeke and Bean. Yes, Peeke and Bean are still young I would like to force feed the younger defensemen and let them develop here if they are even close to being ready. The youth on this team has me excited.

 

[koteka]

You aren’t stuck. We are all free agents.

This is Ohio. Our teams sometimes suck for decades, but we stick with them.

 

[Monstershockey]

This is Ohio. Our teams sometimes suck for decades, but we stick with them.

View attachment 788618

I know most people think that stadium wes a dump, and it was, but I miss it. Saw my first MLB game there, had to be around 1973 or so. Before the big scoreboard seen here was built. They had a small, red, hand operated scoreboard to the leftfield side of the bleachers. Those darker blue seats were the hitter's background, so they didn't sell them for baseball, but for the 1981 all-star game they did, and that is where me and my father sat. 8 bucks for tickets. Bought them at the box office at the last game before the strike that year. Try that now. LOL.

I remember that centerfield fence extension to make it higher in the middle. Cost us a game early on because what would have been a homerun the previous season, ended up a double. Typical Tribe back then.

Also sat 10 or so rows in front of John Adams for the Jets-Browns double OT win in '86. Our season tickets were down at the front of these bleachers, right about where the fence angles down toward right field, 3 rows up from the field. Good times.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This is Ohio. Our teams sometimes suck for decades, but we stick with them.

View attachment 788618

Then it’s your choice. You’re not stuck.

Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate the dedication. I support it. I share it to a certain degree. I did “free agent” my fandom one time. It’s why you all get me here.

 

[Monstershockey]

Always been a Cleveland/Ohio sports fan, but never felt stuck. Never even thought of following another team. If I got tired of a team, I just stopped paying attention. The losing gets old, but hopefully we're around when it gets good. The Browns of the late 80's and Indians in the mid 90's brought good times and a lot of fun during their runs.

Getting back into hockey, the Jackets were the only team I was going to root for. They'll get over the hump eventually and it will be fun. The Calder Cup season was a bonus, and even if they stayed Colorado's AHL team, I still would follow the Jackets. Being the affiliate adds an extra dimension to it.

 

[Ice9]

I know most people think that stadium wes a dump, and it was, but I miss it. Saw my first MLB game there, had to be around 1973 or so. Before the big scoreboard seen here was built. They had a small, red, hand operated scoreboard to the leftfield side of the bleachers. Those darker blue seats were the hitter's background, so they didn't sell them for baseball, but for the 1981 all-star game they did, and that is where me and my father sat. 8 bucks for tickets. Bought them at the box office at the last game before the strike that year. Try that now. LOL.

I remember that centerfield fence extension to make it higher in the middle. Cost us a game early on because what would have been a homerun the previous season, ended up a double. Typical Tribe back then.

Also sat 10 or so rows in front of John Adams for the Jets-Browns double OT win in '86. Our season tickets were down at the front of these bleachers, right about where the fence angles down toward right field, 3 rows up from the field. Good times.

There was nothing better than walking up those ramps as a kid to see that lit up, green field. (Sometimes spray painted) saw some great legends play there throughout the late 60s and 70s! People can hate it but it had more personality than that too oft re-named slab on Ontario...

Same went for the old Richfield Coliseum!

 

[Monstershockey]

There was nothing better than walking up those ramps as a kid to see that lit up, green field. (Sometimes spray painted) saw some great legends play there throughout the late 60s and 70s! People can hate it but it had more personality than that too oft re-named slab on Ontario...

Same went for the old Richfield Coliseum!

Yep. I remember seeing the Browns and Vikings play and it was so freaking cold. They spray painted the dirt green that game. Won the game on a fake field goal right in front of us. You could jump down to the fence and get in on the celebration with the players as they would run up to the fans.

 

[Ice9]

Hey! I was there too! I dont know if I've EVER been colder! Also sat in shirt sleeves one year against the Boston Patriots in early December! Usually though, that place was always chilly all summer!

 

[NotWendell]

Thanks Grandpa Jarmo!

 

[Crede777]

I disagree with the "over a decade" to assemble the roster argument.

He did assemble a competitive roster from 2013-2019. The roster he assembled consisting of Bobrovsky, Panarin, Jones, Werenski, PLD, and Foligno was a competitive and likely would have been a successful one. It unfortunately was undone by the players who made purely personal decisions.

If we are judging Jarmo by the time he has put together a competitive roster, it doesn't start until the current rebuild starts which was 2020. Unless we want to hold him accountable for things that are outside of his control in which case we should also blame him for the weather and the existence of state and local income tax.

 

[Cowumbus]

He did assemble a competitive roster from 2013-2019.

**2014 (mostly Howson), 2017-20

The roster he assembled consisting of Bobrovsky, Panarin, Jones, Werenski, PLD, and Foligno was a competitive and likely would have been a successful one.

Bolded were already here, just FYI. When Howson left there plenty of guys in the system that were pieces of the “2017-20 good ole days” (Jenner, Murray, Savard, Anderson, Korpi).

It unfortunately was undone by the players who made purely personal decisions.

Is that not on the GM? If you team cannot be good without one/two players isn’t that a giant flaw in its makeup? Boston is still great without 37/46/33. Should the GM not have a contingency plan in place? Didn’t he decide to let Bob walk? Did the org not strain the relationship with the sports psychologist? Whose fault is that?

If we are judging Jarmo by the time he has put together a competitive roster, it doesn't start until the current rebuild starts which was 2020. Unless we want to hold him accountable for things that are outside of his control in which case we should also blame him for the weather and the existence of state and local income tax.

He is in control of the return though.

He traded a borderline 1C for an inconsistent 1 dimensional winger in Laine, and a scoring winger wanting to play C in Roslovic.

He traded a borderline 1RHD in Jones, a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder for Boqvist, Bean, Sillinger and Jiricek (imagine how much worse it would be if Chicago’s pick ended up not being 5OA).

The Hartnell, Saad and Panarin trades were good. Expansion trade, Dzingle trade and 50 percent of recent signings have been terrible.

* * * *

At the end of the day Jarmo has never been saying that this process was a rebuild - he always said it was a re-tool. On pace for 3 bottom 3 finishes in four years. That sounds like a rebuild (which is fine), but why are we making moves that don’t correlate with a rebuild? Or did Jarmo think we could re-tool with the toolbox we had…

* * * * *

I don’t care much about the Jarmo situation. My stance is known. But to suggest that Jarmo is excused from this mess just doesn’t make sense to me. A lot of the moves Jarmo has made resulted in the team getting worse / further away from competing soon. I seriously think this mess is still 2 years away from being semi-cleaned up and the Jackets playing meaningful games late in the year.

 

[majormajor]

At the end of the day Jarmo has never been saying that this process was a rebuild - he always said it was a re-tool. On pace for 3 bottom 3 finishes in four years. That sounds like a rebuild (which is fine), but why are we making moves that don’t correlate with a rebuild? Or did Jarmo think we could re-tool with the toolbox we had…

I don't know what Jarmo privately thought about whether it was going to be a rebuild or not.

But either way, rebuilding teams actually do sign veteran players, sometimes very very expensive ones. They usually hover around being the youngest club in the league, which we are doing. They don't follow the HF rebuild fantasy and field a team of junior eligibles.