The Jarmo Thread

[Ice9]

Just an opinion but the heir apparent is still in the building. Everyone thought he'd be history including me...

See if he's behind the bench with Babcock, in the box with Jarmo or some of both. He's had experience at both already...

 

[Youngguns1380]

It's really quite remarkable to consider the number of people who play fantasy hockey and EA NHL and therefore think they know all the substantial parts of how this works. I don't claim to know how to organize a country because I play Civilization*. Or build a railroad company because I'm a fan of Empire Builder and its spinoffs.

*: specifically, Civ4; I will never accept 1UPT

Wait what?? Civilization is exactly how you run a country!!! ​

View attachment 734546

Selling Hope.

 

[Cowumbus]

He’d first need to be on the hot seat to get off from it.

And should he leave or get fired he’ll be the most sought after GM in the whole league.

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/nhl-hot-seat-radar-2023-columbus-blue-jackets

Is Jarmo Kekalainen on the hot seat? Are trades still likely?: Blue Jackets mailbag, Part 2

Also, what if Elvis Merzlikins doesn’t return to form as a top-notch goalie?

theathletic.com

Jarmo Kekalainen Deserves to See out This "reset" but the Heat is on After Third Coaching Change

Columbus Blue Jackets general manager Jarmo Kekalainen faces more pressure after his third coaching change.

www.1stohiobattery.com

Blue Jackets can fairly be described as 'embarrassing' and 'pathetic' | Michael Arace

The Columbus Blue Jackets, who've been outscored by 17-4 over their last three games, are off to one of the worst starts in franchise history.

www.dispatch.com

It’s at least warm no?
11 seasons as a Gm, .535 winning percentage (87 point pace). I’d think that there are quite a few teams that would pass.

NHL Power Rankings: General manager ranking tiers

In this week's edition of the NHL Power Rankings we take a look at the league's 32 general managers and rank them into their appropriate tiers.

www.nbcsports.com

Old (ranked 28th in 2021), but the Jackets haven’t done anything but get worse since it was written..

Jarmo is an average GM. Not a hero.

 

[koteka]

It's really quite remarkable to consider the number of people who play fantasy hockey and EA NHL and therefore think they know all the substantial parts of how this works. I don't claim to know how to organize a country because I play Civilization*. Or build a railroad company because I'm a fan of Empire Builder and its spinoffs.

*: specifically, Civ4; I will never accept 1UPT

I used to play Civ and I feel fully qualified to criticize the way countries are governed. Being a hockey parent, former CBJ HF fantasy hockey league champion, and someone who occasionally spends money on Jackets tickets, I feel well qualified to criticize the CBJ. Also, if you destroy asteroids badly with a little triangular spaceship, I am qualified to criticize you, but that might show my age.

I liked and defended Jarmo for years. I think he should be fired. I think he also deserves another GM job and will be hired by another team. I don’t know that Jarmo is on the hot seat in Columbus. I think he should be, but who knows what the ownership is thinking? I also think Rimer should be on the hot seat, but they keep bringing him back.

I think they will eventually make Nash the GM, and I wish they wouldnt. I think Nash should go to a team like Boston (a team with a winning culture) and work his way up there. If he did that, I would feel he is more deserving of a leadership position.

 

[majormajor]

It’s at least warm no?

I'd bet not.

I think if his moves look dumb then ownership/JD might change their minds, but for now I think they're still keen on Jarmo. I don't think it's a hot seat situation even if the record is mediocre.

11 seasons as a Gm, .535 winning percentage (87 point pace). I’d think that there are quite a few teams that would pass.

I don't think that matters. There are going to be some owners / Presidents keen on getting an aggressive GM and they'll be excited to get Jarmo. He'd probably get a big bump in pay if he got canned by the Jackets.

One thing is that people generally feel he's had a hand tied behind his back with the top talents leaving the team in the past. If you have a market where players flock to, you might be curious to see what Jarmo could do there.

 

[Cowumbus]

I'd bet not.

I think if his moves look dumb then ownership/JD might change their minds, but for now I think they're still keen on Jarmo. I don't think it's a hot seat situation even if the record is mediocre.



I don't think that matters. There are going to be some owners / Presidents keen on getting an aggressive GM and they'll be excited to get Jarmo. He'd probably get a big bump in pay if he got canned by the Jackets.

One thing is that people generally feel he's had a hand tied behind his back with the top talents leaving the team in the past. If you have a market where players flock to, you might be curious to see what Jarmo could do there.

To be fair, other markets have had the same issues. Part of the job.

 

[majormajor]

I liked and defended Jarmo for years. I think he should be fired. I think he also deserves another GM job and will be hired by another team. I don’t know that Jarmo is on the hot seat in Columbus. I think he should be, but who knows what the ownership is thinking? I also think Rimer should be on the hot seat, but they keep bringing him back.

I think they will eventually make Nash the GM, and I wish they wouldnt. I think Nash should go to a team like Boston (a team with a winning culture) and work his way up there. If he did that, I would feel he is more deserving of a leadership position.

I've wanted Jarmo gone (periodically) because there have been so many bad moves lately.

Gudbranson signing (#1 target!)
Bjorkstrand trade
Sillinger kept in the NHL
not getting a goalie

But I wouldn't trade Jarmo for Nash. If you don't have a candidate where you really love their judgment, then don't fire Jarmo. We could do a lot worse.

To be fair, other markets have had the same issues. Part of the job.

Yeah and Brad Treliving just went from Calgary to Toronto after losing his top talents. People don't blame him for it.

 

[CBJx614]

So if Zach was healthy you think out blue line was fine last year?
I mean our blue line sucked the year before and you think adding a 3rd pairing guy that you're paying like a 2nd pairing guy solves anything?

I do talk a lot of shit I guess. I usually crap on the Jackets and the Jackets play down to that standard.

You live in a fantasy world. Also every GM knows each other. Not like there are 1000 guys to sort thru and Jarmo is the top of the food chain with some rolodex no one else has. Looks folks like to trade with him - he usually has cap room and it's a safe place to trade with (meaning the CBJ aren't very good, so it won't come back to haunt a team in the playoffs).

My solution if I was the GM since you asked:
-Don't sign Elvis to a big extension. That solves that problem. It was a bad contract to a guy who didn't deserve it.
-Don't sign a rookie head coach that had no idea what a defensive system was while he was on the bench.
-Don't sign Gudy to that big of a deal. Listen we needed toughness, but not a 4x4 for a 3rd pairing dman.

First off, I didn't say having Zach back alone makes us healthy... I'm talking about OUR ENTIRE DEFENSE. Secondly, Gudbranson was brought in to be a 3rd pairing Dman, who was forced to play on the first line minutes, his cap hit will be a nonfactor as the cap rises. And last off of course every GM knows each other, however, they most certainly don't have all the same connections. Jarmo and JD having a close relationship with Babs and all the moves they have made is literally the reason he's the coach now.




Defenseman who played more than 50 games for the Jackets last season:

Peeke
Gudbranson
Beyreuther
Berni
Gavrikov

That's it. How many of the guys will see 20+ games next season if we're healthy. Boqvist was close at 46. The next closest was Blankenberg and he didn't even hit 40 games played.

So yes I do think having Werenski as well as Boqvist, Bean, Blankenberg back in the lineup fighting for 2 spots against young hungry kids like Svozil and Jiricek will make a huge difference. And then you have to factor in a guy like Provorov .. who is getting a fresh start and playing for a huge payday. If the defence stays healthy there's a chance for a MASSIVE improvement...

 

[Cowumbus]

Does Jarmo deserve more flack for taking overager Yegor Chinakhov in the first round of the 2020 draft? He was a mid to late round projection IIRC.

Quite a few good players taken in the late 1st / early second.

- Peterka #1 fan

 

[stevo61]

Does Jarmo deserve more flack for taking overager Yegor Chinakhov in the first round of the 2020 draft? He was a mid to late round projection IIRC.

Quite a few good players taken in the late 1st / early second.

- Peterka #1 fan

I believe the answer to that question is we dont know yet. The actual question is why does Jarmo feel the need to get guys like him into the NHL so fast and bypass the AHL

 

[koteka]

Does Jarmo deserve more flack for taking overager Yegor Chinakhov in the first round of the 2020 draft? He was a mid to late round projection IIRC.

Quite a few good players taken in the late 1st / early second.

- Peterka #1 fan

I wanted Greig or Bourke.

It is too early to make any determination on whether Jarmo was right or not. I like Chinakhov. But if he goes on to be another middle six wing and Greig ends up a 2c then it will look bad in my eyes. Rumor is we weren’t the only team with a first round grade on him, and we had no 2nd round pick because of the Dzingel trade.

One thing I respect about Jarmo is he is willing to take a risk like this. I still want him fired, but I respect a lot of what he has done. (Dzingel helped us get to the playoffs, so I don’t even hold that trade against him.)

 

[EspenK]

The Athletic ran a poll to determine how much confidence there is in a teams management.
Jackets overall rated a C. Votes were split between fan base & public. Public rated us slightly higher.

The only category rated a B- was draft & develop. I get the B for drafting given our position the last 3 times. The develop part remains iffy in my opinion. Cole Sillinger Exhibit A.

Fan base rated Cap Mangement a D+. I'm guessing Gudbrandson, trading Bjorkstrand and the two trades this offseason were the reasons.

Other categories getting C, C- or C+ . Included roster building, trading, free agency and vision.

I think these quotes were probably koteka's.

“I have always respected Jarmo’s willingness to take the big swing, however, this offseason appears a little wild and desperate. Objectively, the team is better on paper, but these moves made the vision a little more short-sighted than it had been before last year’s collapse.”

“Jarmo clearly identifies needs to fill the roster and a willingness to acquire players by any means possible to fill those needs, but the fit of those players within an overall vision and cap management leaves something to be desired.

 

[Jovavic]

Any future vision that Jarmo had went out the window when PLDouche wanted out, he's been flailing ever since

 

[koteka]

I think these quotes were probably koteka's.

“I have always respected Jarmo’s willingness to take the big swing, however, this offseason appears a little wild and desperate. Objectively, the team is better on paper, but these moves made the vision a little more short-sighted than it had been before last year’s collapse.”

“Jarmo clearly identifies needs to fill the roster and a willingness to acquire players by any means possible to fill those needs, but the fit of those players within an overall vision and cap management leaves something to be desired.

No. But I think I said something about how he doesn’t have a clear vision which gets him in trouble. I probably also said something about moving away from size and toughness and drafting too many little guys. I don’t really have a problem with Jarmo and the cap. He has done better than most GMs in that department (though I hate the Severson term).

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Not a big fan of Jarmo. But Columbus is a tough team to run. Without any history of hockey success as a franchise and no great weather or great tax benefits to sell, it is not going to be a preferred destination for guys in their 20s looking for a fun place to live and play. As a result, they need to pay a bit more or add an extra year or two to attract or keep talent.

 

[thebus88]

Not a big fan of Jarmo. But Columbus is a tough team to run. Without any history of hockey success as a franchise and no great weather or great tax benefits to sell, it is not going to be a preferred destination for guys in their 20s looking for a fun place to live and play. As a result, they need to pay a bit more or add an extra year or two to attract or keep talent.

Used to be a HUGE fan of Jarmo. There is an aspect of being the GM of the CBJ that makes it harder for him than many other teams. There’s also other teams/areas that I’m sure are in similar situations and even looked at worse. I think what the team’s location brings and modern day perception of the organization’s have way more weight on current players decisions than the history of the franchises themselves. None of us truly know what the perception of the Columbus Blue Jackets organization is among NHL players.

The “small market” or “underdog” aspect or mindset is something that should be accepted and/or somewhat capitalized on, and during the CBJs most successful era, the organization did just that. Both Hitchcock and Tortorella were instrumental in this just had different quality of rosters to deal with.

Overall, having players with something to prove, is better than having guys that feel they’ve already proven something. How you get them to feel that way, is the responsibility of the coach, but, many times and to many players, just making the NHL or getting that big contract, is proof to them of something or is “enough” for them in the big picture.

I literally became a CBJ fan, as my “hometown” Red Wings had gone from the Proberts and Kocurs I had grown up with as a young child, to essentially “the NY Yankees of the NHL”. What I find disheartening is how many current CBJ fans seemingly despise the “underdog” outlook, and think it’s necessary for the team to be looked at as a some sort of “favorite” on a nightly basis, even in the f***ing playoffs.

There’s going to be the type of NHL players/type of person that wouldn’t want to sign or be drafted to Columbus, and other types of people at other stages in their life/careers that would want to come. The issue is finding the RIGHT players that will either continue or begin to start playing well after joining the CBJ, for whatever reasons they did join.

 

[Crede777]

Not a big fan of Jarmo. But Columbus is a tough team to run. Without any history of hockey success as a franchise and no great weather or great tax benefits to sell, it is not going to be a preferred destination for guys in their 20s looking for a fun place to live and play. As a result, they need to pay a bit more or add an extra year or two to attract or keep talent.

Overpaying is a quick recipe for a roster that is bad and expensive. They need to stick to their guns on only offering market value.

The only way out for a team like Columbus is to win which requires buy-in from the players currently here.

 

[MAHJ71]

Overpaying is a quick recipe for a roster that is bad and expensive. They need to stick to their guns on only offering market value.

The only way out for a team like Columbus is to win which requires buy-in from the players currently here.

I think its more of a situational thing depending on the player... but generally yes, I agree.

 

[BB88]

Overpaying is a quick recipe for a roster that is bad and expensive. They need to stick to their guns on only offering market value.

The only way out for a team like Columbus is to win which requires buy-in from the players currently here.

Good thing is the most expensive players they have signed (and at the quality of franchise tier) are carrying u10M cap hits in a league where franchise players will be making 12-14M.

& no one is even close to hitting that money prior to Fantilli potentially getting paid 3 years down the line(hopefully he will)

 

[JacketsDavid]

Not a big fan of Jarmo. But Columbus is a tough team to run. Without any history of hockey success as a franchise and no great weather or great tax benefits to sell, it is not going to be a preferred destination for guys in their 20s looking for a fun place to live and play. As a result, they need to pay a bit more or add an extra year or two to attract or keep talent.

My problem is they often offer too much money and/or term for marginal NHL players.
Pay Johnny G, Zach and Laine what is needed.
But don't overpay for a goalie, a 3rd pairing dman or 3rd/4th line forwards.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

So if Zach was healthy you think out blue line was fine last year?
I mean our blue line sucked the year before and you think adding a 3rd pairing guy that you're paying like a 2nd pairing guy solves anything?

I do talk a lot of shit I guess. I usually crap on the Jackets and the Jackets play down to that standard.

You live in a fantasy world. Also every GM knows each other. Not like there are 1000 guys to sort thru and Jarmo is the top of the food chain with some rolodex no one else has. Looks folks like to trade with him - he usually has cap room and it's a safe place to trade with (meaning the CBJ aren't very good, so it won't come back to haunt a team in the playoffs).

My solution if I was the GM since you asked:
-Don't sign Elvis to a big extension. That solves that problem. It was a bad contract to a guy who didn't deserve it.
-Don't sign a rookie head coach that had no idea what a defensive system was while he was on the bench.
-Don't sign Gudy to that big of a deal. Listen we needed toughness, but not a 4x4 for a 3rd pairing dman.

Ok you gave us three "don'ts" How about some dos?

A good friend, who is the CEO of a large company regularly says- I don't have time for problems, but I have time for solutions. Listing you don'ts has very little value.

Who would you have acquired as a 1A goalie? How would you have gotten them? If as a UFA, what was the $$ and term? How was it better than what they actually signed for? If it was via trade, what assets would have returned a goalie that was actually traded at that time? Note it's likely to CBJ would have had to outbid whomever did trade for them.

Considering it was a team that needed to rebuild and had few assets to build around, what coach would you have hired instead? Considering the situation, what proven coaches would have been even interested in the job?

What other moves would have made, that history shows were makable?

 

[JacketsDavid]

Ok you gave us three "don'ts" How about some dos?

A good friend, who is the CEO of a large company regularly says- I don't have time for problems, but I have time for solutions. Listing you don'ts has very little value.

Who would you have acquired as a 1A goalie? How would you have gotten them? If as a UFA, what was the $$ and term? How was it better than what they actually signed for? If it was via trade, what assets would have returned a goalie that was actually traded at that time? Note it's likely to CBJ would have had to outbid whomever did trade for them.

Considering it was a team that needed to rebuild and had few assets to build around, what coach would you have hired instead? Considering the situation, what proven coaches would have been even interested in the job?

What other moves would have made, that history shows were makable?

I would never have traded Korpi. Behind the same crappy defense that made Elvis look like crap, he looked ok. Then I would have given him a similar deal to what he got in free agency. I would have worked my tail off to attach Elvis to other assets at the deadline to get rid of him.
Well the guy I wouldn't have hired was the guy we hired - with no NHL HC experience. Not sure if the CBJ FO noticed but we have gotten much better results with proven NHL coaches. It was clear in year 1 (where the team likely did over achieve) that he had no idea how to get the team to play defense. it was a horrible hire and played out as most expected. And who knows why would you think Babcock wouldn't have taken the job back then? Besides the fact that CBJ ownership would have had to pay his old contract?

 

[Indy18]

I would never have traded Korpi. Behind the same crappy defense that made Elvis look like crap, he looked ok. Then I would have given him a similar deal to what he got in free agency. I would have worked my tail off to attach Elvis to other assets at the deadline to get rid of him.
Well the guy I wouldn't have hired was the guy we hired - with no NHL HC experience. Not sure if the CBJ FO noticed but we have gotten much better results with proven NHL coaches. It was clear in year 1 (where the team likely did over achieve) that he had no idea how to get the team to play defense. it was a horrible hire and played out as most expected. And who knows why would you think Babcock wouldn't have taken the job back then? Besides the fact that CBJ ownership would have had to pay his old contract?

You just traded away our 2024 1st Round pick and probably a prospect to pay a goalie who has never started 40 games in a season with a backup who is already injury prone. I love Korpi but the optics alone on that asset management looks terrible. If your going to burn draft picks, especially 1sts, there are more efficient ways of doing so.

Also the Larsen hiring seemed more of a Mike Priest not wanting to spend the money decision. Every insider thought we had Gallant and we swapped at the last second. Sometimes GMs are at their ownership's/administrator's mercy and there's nothing they can do about it when they get overruled with what should be the sensible choice...there are many examples in pro sports to count when this happens.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

My problem is they often offer too much money and/or term for marginal NHL players.
Pay Johnny G, Zach and Laine what is needed.
But don't overpay for a goalie, a 3rd pairing dman or 3rd/4th line forwards.

It is easy to get in a tough spot. You have money to spend but a more limited pool of guys that will take it because the team and geographical location means something to them. At some point you have to decide to pay up to fill the need or risk banking the money while not filling the spot. Severson is an obvious one to analyze. Would he have come to Columbus for a shorter term or less money if they held firm? If not, who would have that was going to be available?

 

[CBJx614]

Look I think Korpi is a good(not great) goalie, but we have some real recency bias going on with Korpi and against Elvis.

Korpi has outperformed Elvis all of once in their respective careers and that was last season. Yes he played better than Elvis but it wasn't like he was a world beater last year in Columbus. And if you're factoring that Korpi has been hurt the last few seasons and this was his first healthy season then you need to do the same thing for Elvis who hasn't been the same since the Kivi incident. Maybe he doesn't rebound and fizzles out of the league, who knows. But let's not act like Korpi was the reason this team will or won't succeed.

Yes Elvis' contract is steep for his current production. And so is Gudbransons last year, but neither contract are going to handicap us in the future unless the league is having financial troubles and the cap dips or stays the same.

As others have pointed out, every team has a struggle period while making the transition from bottom feeder to playoff contender. And both of their contracts are seemingly lined up perfectly in what should be the jackets transition period. Elvis rebounding hurries up that timeline quite a bit. By the time they are moving out it should open up plenty of space for the next wave of players looking to get paid.