The Jarmo Thread

[DarkandStormy]

Are you saying these Gm’s are better than Jarmo?

I hope that no one would take Nill over Jarmo for example.
Dallas has been such a badly run team the last few years.
Look at those contracts to Seguin& Benn.
Look at their F depth, they were as one line team as one can get. They’ve been one of the worst scoring teams over the last few years.
They also had abysmal drafting for years and with that an abysmal prospect pool that has lead to all kind of problems.
What Nill has over Jarmo is that they play in the West and not in the East.

& Sweeney has lived off from the Bergeron/Krejci/Pasta/Rask/Chara/Lucic/Hamilton core he in inherited.

That’s Bostons golden core.
Their wheels will likely fall off after this season because Sweeney has done absolutely nothing at F for post Bergeron era.

Give Jarmo that core and he’s making playoffs every season

NHL Power Rankings: General manager ranking tiers

In this week's edition of the NHL Power Rankings we take a look at the league's 32 general managers and rank them into their appropriate tiers.

nhl.nbcsports.com

Before last season, Jarmo was ranked 28th among NHL GMs.

NHL Power Rankings: Ranking the NHL general managers

Pro Hockey Talk reviews the 31 general managers around the league and assesses who has done the best job at building their roster.

nhl.nbcsports.com

Before the 2021 shortened season, he was ranked 19th.

There aren't typically a ton of "rank NHL GMs" rankings, but of the recent ones I could find, unbiased observers put Jarmo in the bottom half of the league. I think if fans took off their rose colored glasses they'd probably agree.

 

[Monk]

At some point, you are your record.

This is why I don't get why people are even still engaging in this conversation, other than I guess it's the offseason. Whenever context is added, this is the response. Not much else to say if the record is the record and that's that.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

At some point, you are your record. A decade I think is an appropriate time. He took some gambles - notably, Panarin - and those didn't work out.

Panarin didn’t work out?

 

[traffic cone]

NHL Power Rankings: General manager ranking tiers

In this week's edition of the NHL Power Rankings we take a look at the league's 32 general managers and rank them into their appropriate tiers.

nhl.nbcsports.com

Before last season, Jarmo was ranked 28th among NHL GMs.

NHL Power Rankings: Ranking the NHL general managers

Pro Hockey Talk reviews the 31 general managers around the league and assesses who has done the best job at building their roster.

nhl.nbcsports.com

Before the 2021 shortened season, he was ranked 19th.

There aren't typically a ton of "rank NHL GMs" rankings, but of the recent ones I could find, unbiased observers put Jarmo in the bottom half of the league. I think if fans took off their rose colored glasses they'd probably agree.

Sigh. Too much agenda.

 

[CBJx614]

Panarin didn’t work out?

We didn't win a cup with him, that's seemingly the only thing that matters to some people. We haven't won a cup in our 20 history so nothing is acceptable since that apparently is the only factor that matters.

 

[Monk]

We didn't win a cup with him, that's seemingly the only thing that matters to some people. We haven't won a cup in our 20 history so nothing is acceptable since that apparently is the only factor that matters.

The binary boys are oot and aboot

 

[LJ7]

This thread is all people who rank Jarmo from like 8th-15th league wide with I think one exception and the debate is how enthusiastic people are about having the 8th-15th best GM in the NHL

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This thread is all people who rank Jarmo from like 8th-15th league wide with I think one exception and the debate is how enthusiastic people are about having the 8th-15th best GM in the NHL

This. It’s why I’ve stayed out.

 

[majormajor]

This thread is all people who rank Jarmo from like 8th-15th league wide with I think one exception and the debate is how enthusiastic people are about having the 8th-15th best GM in the NHL

What's weird about this conversation for me is that folks are talking about GM quality the same way they would talk about player quality. Like Cale Makar is the top D in the league and you can make bets on how he'll play this year based on his record and his skillset. You can't do that with GMs. Remember when Sakic was at the bottom? Future GM performance is not highly predicted by recent perceived GM performance. Maybe it is fair to say Jarmo's ten year record is middling but that really doesn't tell us anything about the next couple years.

At the same time, you really have no choice but to ask whether a given GM can build you a cup winner. But rather than using highly abstract rankings you're better off asking about particular attributes like "does this GM have the appropriate pro scouting ability?", "do they have the appropriate boldness"?, etc...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What's weird about this conversation for me is that folks are talking about GM quality the same way they would talk about player quality. Like Cale Makar is the top D in the league and you can make bets on how he'll play this year based on his record and his skillset. You can't do that with GMs. Remember when Sakic was at the bottom? Future GM performance is not highly predicted by recent perceived GM performance. Maybe it is fair to say Jarmo's ten year record is middling but that really doesn't tell us anything about the next couple years.

At the same time, you really have no choice but to ask whether a given GM can build you a cup winner. But rather than using highly abstract rankings you're better off asking about particular attributes like "does this GM have the appropriate pro scouting ability?", "do they have the appropriate boldness"?, etc...

Must rank everything!

 

[cslebn]

Must rank everything!

Can we get a prospect style poll?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Can we get a prospect style poll?

No

 

[NotWendell]

OK, so who are the winners and losers in this thread?

 

[traffic cone]

OK, so who are the winners and losers in this thread?

The losers are those who want Jarmo fired (until he gets fired, that is).

Might take a while. Hope they can still enjoy this team playing while they’re waiting.

 

[cslebn]

OK, so who are the winners and losers in this thread?

Winners: DSL
Losers: us since we don't get a poll

 

[tunnelvision]

Idk how many SCs has he won but I have a feeling DSL is a top-3 moderator.... posting in this thread.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Idk how many SCs has he won but I have a feeling DSL is a top-3 moderator.... posting in this thread.

 

[Viqsi]

Idk how many SCs has he won but I have a feeling DSL is a top-3 moderator.... posting in this thread.

He goes along with what I think, so obviously he's a fantastic moderator and the best non-me moderator we've ever had.

I dunno about that CBJW guy, tho. He has OPINIONS.

 

[Byrral]

Are we still all in with Jamo and Co? Is this current management team of Jarmo and JD the group that we want to put our continued faith in for the near/long term future based on previous results and the current roster and salary structure? Are we happy with some of these contracts given out to what appear to be average players?

I can't sit here and accept excuses anymore. It's been a decade for these guys and I see a handful of long term solutions on this current roster. The rest appears to be a disaster. How much longer do I have to be patient with this group when the results have been a couple playoff appearances, one non-covid series win, a mass exodus of players from our team do to a variety of reasons and a current roster that seems years away from being a contender if they are even capable of getting them there.

This isn't a bash Jarmo post but how long am I suppose to be patient with the mediocrity of the team before we are a contender? Would it be better to find a candidate to move this team forward? Or am I just angry/frustrated and completely out of line? Just saying.

 

[EspenK]

Jarmo has had his ups and downs. My biggest gripe about him is he tends to look for instant gratification rather than sticking to a plan. Two years ago he was committed to a re-tooling yet here we are at the cap ceiling (effectively) with a $4 million 3rd pair d-man and a nearly 10 million dollar per year superstar and missing Bjork and we're looking at a very likely 2-5 start. Assuming Laine returns soon and is effective maybe we hit the 80-85 point range which very likely precludes us from either at least a possible shot at Bedard or one of the other top C's. Am I saying he shouldn't have signed Gaudreau? Maybe. Maybe he accelerates the rebuild (excuse me the retool) by a year or two but there are still many spots to fill like 3 or 4 D spots andthe top 2 C's. By the time all the rest of the pieces are in place Gaudreau might be on the downside. Again the gripe is not fully committing to a paln.

 

[LJ7]

He certainly has specific weaknesses but the grass is not always greener. To me he's proven he can build a cup contender already, whether he can again is TBD but I'm not "out" on him by any stretch. Some reactions to things the team has done gets ridiculous on here. Count me as staunchly opposed to the small but vocal "Bjorkstrand > Gaudreau and Gudbranson" movement I've seen on here.

Also lately it's felt like they've made bad moves in a vacuum that worked well (Gudbranson, which parlayed in to Gaudreau by pure luck) and a few years before they made good moves in a vacuum that went "poorly" (all-in 2019). I think Jarmo can make a cup winner/ contender, and that he's in the 8th-15th best GM in the league range, and that "ranking" GMs is a fool's errand compared to ranking players anyway.

 

[614 CBJ]

The draft picks have not been terrible (biggest swing and miss was Carlsson, considering Aho was available)

However, the contracts Jarmo has given are grounds for termination
The organization has it's hands tied for multiple years

1 playoff win in 9 years doesn't get it

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What makes it difficult to evaluate Jarmo is the challenges he’s faced in things that are (we think) out of his control and how those things have impacted his ability to stick to a plan. The short and obvious list being Panarin, Bobrovsky, Dubois and Jones. He’s been able to mitigate those situations either via the buy-in, which could have been wildly successful but ended up just being successful and the two trades.

But I admit I am left wanting (probably unfairly) more from his high-end draftees and while I appreciate his ability to add necessary roster pieces (Bean, Robinson, Kuraly, Nyquist) the rest of the roster hasn’t allowed them to be as complementary perhaps as we’d prefer.

This is a muddled and directionless post but that’s kinda how I feel about Jarmo at this particular moment.

 

[NotCommitted]

I'm not saying this to make up excuses or defenses for Jarmo, there's certainly valid reasons for thinking he's doing a bad job, but anyone who was excited just a couple weeks ago and thinking he's doing ok (and even more so after the Gaudreau signing etc.) and now wants to fire Jarmo is just having an emotional knee jerk reaction for couple games of bad hockey.

Their current level of suck is not sustainable, unless they become a complete tirefire and have a season like 20-21, in which case I'll be all in for firing just about anyone you can fire

 

[majormajor]

I'm not saying this to make up excuses or defenses for Jarmo, there's certainly valid reasons for thinking he's doing a bad job, but anyone who was excited just a couple weeks ago and thinking he's doing ok (and even more so after the Gaudreau signing etc.) and now wants to fire Jarmo is just having an emotional knee jerk reaction for couple games of bad hockey.

Their current level of suck is not sustainable, unless they become a complete tirefire and have a season like 20-21, in which case I'll be all in for firing just about anyone you can fire

I agree that if folks liked Jarmo's summer then they should still like him and chill out. And if you're like me and you think Jarmo made some fireable moves (Gudbranson, Bjorkstrand) then you can want him gone, although I don't personally look at any available GM out there and think we would be better off with them.