The Jarmo Thread

[KJ Dangler]

The year we lost to Boston , I have 0 issues with Jarmo going all in . As a gm , yes you have to balance the future , and current , but that was a team that could have won the cup . Boston adjusted after we were up in the series 2-1 l and Torts didn’t .

 

[NotWendell]

Not his fault no one wants to play here. Even guys we draft!

He's the Alternate Governor of the franchise. It's EXACTLY his fault!

 

[tuozzi]

He's the Alternate Governor of the franchise. It's EXACTLY his fault!

Depends on why people want out. If it's because it's a shitty organisation, then sure. If it's because Columbus is not New York or Florida, it's really hard to see how it's his fault.

 

[MoeBartoli]

The only two guys who wanted to leave Columbus for a “better destination” were Duchene, who lusted for Nashville, and Bread, who wanted Broadway. (PLD remains an unsolved case). If Pittsburgh and Detroit could be winners, so too can Columbus.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

The only two guys who wanted to leave Columbus for a “better destination” were Duchene, who lusted for Nashville, and Bread, who wanted Broadway. (PLD remains an unsolved case). If Pittsburgh and Detroit could be winners, so too can Columbus.

Detroit has a rich history of success. Pittsburgh is legit because they got Mario first and then Crosby to make them great. Columbus has no history to sell, no players that are so good that others come there to join them, and the weather is not a sales point. Fair or not, if you took a survey of the place players would least like to play, Columbus would be near the top of the list. Add in the fact that the coach doesn't make a lot of friends with his players or his style and the GM wants to beat down every RFA and I don't have a ton of optimism right now.

 

[EspenK]

Jarmo has a lot to do this upcoming off season. Here's my list in preferential order but I'm sure others will disagree and frankly I am not sure if they all aren't equal top priorities:

Extend Jones & while he's at it Zach. If neither will sign an extension trade them and get on with a rebuild.

Hire a new coach. Not a re-tread but if a re-tread I'd take Gallant over Boudreau or Julian or real old school guys. Purely based on the article that floated around here I hope Malholtra gets a strong look.

Somehow strengthen the C problem. Danault is the only UFA I see as a viable alternative but he still doesn't fill the 1c role. Does throwing an offer sheet at Elias Pettersson make sense? Depending on the deal I'm not sure Jackets have the draft picks to make it work.

Explore the trade market for Laine & Domi although I would prefer seeing Laine play for a different coach.

Thoughts?

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

Jarmo has a lot to do this upcoming off season. Here's my list in preferential order but I'm sure others will disagree and frankly I am not sure if they all aren't equal top priorities:

Extend Jones & while he's at it Zach. If neither will sign an extension trade them and get on with a rebuild.

Hire a new coach. Not a re-tread but if a re-tread I'd take Gallant over Boudreau or Julian or real old school guys. Purely based on the article that floated around here I hope Malholtra gets a strong look.

Somehow strengthen the C problem. Danault is the only UFA I see as a viable alternative but he still doesn't fill the 1c role. Does throwing an offer sheet at Elias Pettersson make sense? Depending on the deal I'm not sure Jackets have the draft picks to make it work.

Explore the trade market for Laine & Domi although I would prefer seeing Laine play for a different coach.

Thoughts?

That's pretty much how I see it.

Hopefully hiring a new coach (MANNY!) and seeing that the team will take a new direction will entice Jones and Werenski to stay. If not, then the offseason is an ideal time to work on moves that will bring optimal return for each, which would be sad to do but necessary. These guys can't be allowed to walk for nothing.

 

[JacketsDavid]

The only two guys who wanted to leave Columbus for a “better destination” were Duchene, who lusted for Nashville, and Bread, who wanted Broadway. (PLD remains an unsolved case). If Pittsburgh and Detroit could be winners, so too can Columbus.

You are correct recently.

But Adam Foote asked out while wearing the C. Captain Nash requested a trade. Carter wanted nothing to do with Columbus. Now again different regimes but Columbus has had the problem for a while. I think that's what bothers a lot of us,, is we know Columbus is a great city. No we don't have beaches and the night life isn't great, but it's a nice place. Just it seems like many NHL players just don't care for it.

It comes down to culture and leadership (IMO). Some teams are excellent at it, and other teams just don't get it and to this point Columbus doesn't have it. You can see the Steelers in the NFL as my best example. Guys know how they will play, they rarely sign/draft/acquire the wrong person and they are usually better than what most people expect year in and year out. I'm not a Steelers fan at all, but it's the model franchise.

 

[Monstershockey]

You are correct recently.

But Adam Foote asked out while wearing the C. Captain Nash requested a trade. Carter wanted nothing to do with Columbus. Now again different regimes but Columbus has had the problem for a while. I think that's what bothers a lot of us,, is we know Columbus is a great city. No we don't have beaches and the night life isn't great, but it's a nice place. Just it seems like many NHL players just don't care for it.

It comes down to culture and leadership (IMO). Some teams are excellent at it, and other teams just don't get it and to this point Columbus doesn't have it. You can see the Steelers in the NFL as my best example. Guys know how they will play, they rarely sign/draft/acquire the wrong person and they are usually better than what most people expect year in and year out. I'm not a Steelers fan at all, but it's the model franchise.

The Steelers also have/had continuity at the head coaching level. They don't change coaches like people change their underwear. They give their coaches chances to retool after having a run. Plus it helps to have quality scouting.

 

[MoeBartoli]

You are correct recently.

But Adam Foote asked out while wearing the C. Captain Nash requested a trade. Carter wanted nothing to do with Columbus. Now again different regimes but Columbus has had the problem for a while. I think that's what bothers a lot of us,, is we know Columbus is a great city. No we don't have beaches and the night life isn't great, but it's a nice place. Just it seems like many NHL players just don't care for it.

It comes down to culture and leadership (IMO). Some teams are excellent at it, and other teams just don't get it and to this point Columbus doesn't have it. You can see the Steelers in the NFL as my best example. Guys know how they will play, they rarely sign/draft/acquire the wrong person and they are usually better than what most people expect year in and year out. I'm not a Steelers fan at all, but it's the model franchise.

My comments were related to the city....people wanting to leave because they didn’t want to LIVE in Columbus. Nash didn’t leave because of the city. In fact he moved back here. And Foote was homesick. Of course losing played a role in these moves as well. But it wasn’t anything about Columbus the city.

I left Carter out of of it because I just write him off as acting like a jilted little high school girl.

 

[LoneFunyan]

What pisses me off about the whole "I want to go to a winning franchise" is that really great players understand that winning has to start with someones. I will bet you any amount of money that Foligno saw coming here as an opportunity to prove himself as a leader and a good player, and not as a burden.

Any player who begs off because the team isn't historically good should tack the statement "...and I'm not talented enough to believe I can help fix the problem, so I need to be a passenger to a group of better, more confident players" to their trade request.

I get the idea that you don't want to spend your whole career playing for a doormat, so if someone like Eichel requested a trade, it's a little different because he's spent years (and made a long term contract commitment) trying to right the ship and it just doesn't seem to be happening. I'd be OK if Bjork requested a trade after next year - he's looking at probably 3 years, minimally, in the wilderness before he'll be on a decent team again and he's starting to enter the prime of his career - I totally get that he might want to move along while he can still contribute to a cup run.

But a guy like PLD (presuming he asked out for the "I want to play in a hockey city" thing) - f- you - make it a hockey city, you jagweed loser.

 

[LoneFunyan]

I don't understand why people would be so willing to hire Manny Malhotra, who is still very early in his coaching career, but would be up in arms if we hired that Finnish coach who's been talked about.

Malhotra's one of my all-time favorite Jackets, and if you can hire him into the org to groom him as your next guy, you do it. But I thought we learned a valuable lesson from the Arniel fiasco - he was a coach at various levels for close to a decade before we hired him and he was nowhere close to ready.

I'd much rather take a chance on a Finnish coach with a track record of success outside the NHL than take a flyer on someone with literally no head coaching experience at any level.

Edited to remove out of context quote by another user. My mistake!

 

[Jan]

What pisses me off about the whole "I want to go to a winning franchise" is that really great players understand that winning has to start with someones. I will bet you any amount of money that Foligno saw coming here as an opportunity to prove himself as a leader and a good player, and not as a burden.

Any player who begs off because the team isn't historically good should tack the statement "...and I'm not talented enough to believe I can help fix the problem, so I need to be a passenger to a group of better, more confident players" to their trade request.

I get the idea that you don't want to spend your whole career playing for a doormat, so if someone like Eichel requested a trade, it's a little different because he's spent years (and made a long term contract commitment) trying to right the ship and it just doesn't seem to be happening. I'd be OK if Bjork requested a trade after next year - he's looking at probably 3 years, minimally, in the wilderness before he'll be on a decent team again and he's starting to enter the prime of his career - I totally get that he might want to move along while he can still contribute to a cup run.

But a guy like PLD (presuming he asked out for the "I want to play in a hockey city" thing) - f- you - make it a hockey city, you jagweed loser.

This is exactly the bottom of anything.
Even I do not believe in Laine, it currently seams like CBJ is winning that trade, since Roslovic is what we in reality won by that trade. The way PLD played the last few games, well was simply bad.

Laine wanted out of Winnipeg, because he wanted a bigger role, than a second/third line player with extended PP time.
Well Mr Laine, you once again proves, that your are a player needing a protected role on a defensive third line. To be on the team to contribute on the PP.
So we probably have to assume that Laine want out, when the time comes. (Which is probably good for the team).

There is a saying, that effort beat talent.
What is sure, seen with Nikita, Laine and many other is that talent surely do not beat effort.

 

[LoneFunyan]

Laine wanted out of Winnipeg, because he wanted a bigger role, than a second/third line player with extended PP time.

And while he may be failing at it, at least he has that mindset. He can't live up to his own expectations, and that's disappointing for everyone, but at least he wanted the responsibility.

I still think, though, we should see what he looks like under a different coach. I'm losing faith it'll matter, but I'd still like to give it a chance. That and consistent linemates.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Any player who begs off because the team isn't historically good should tack the statement "...and I'm not talented enough to believe I can help fix the problem, so I need to be a passenger to a group of better, more confident players" to their trade request.

But a guy like PLD (presuming he asked out for the "I want to play in a hockey city" thing) - f- you - make it a hockey city, you jagweed loser.

Totally agreed. But the jagweed loser takes the cake on your quote. Consider this phrase stolen without due credit.

I don't understand why people would be so willing to hire Manny Malhotra, who is still very early in his coaching career, but would be up in arms if we hired that Finnish coach who's been talked about.
Malhotra's one of my all-time favorite Jackets, and if you can hire him into the org to groom him as your next guy, you do it. But I thought we learned a valuable lesson from the Arniel fiasco - he was a coach at various levels for close to a decade before we hired him and he was nowhere close to ready.
I'd much rather take a chance on a Finnish coach with a track record of success outside the NHL than take a flyer on someone with literally no head coaching experience at any level.

I have zero opinion on Maholtra, however he has been an NHL assistant for 4 years. Rod Brind'Amour was a 7 year assistant with no head coaching experience prior to being named head coach and he's turned out OK.

I prefer the new head coach who gets hired has a resume similar to Bednar's in Colorado. Maybe not quite as much time prior to being named head coach in the NHL, but with multiple head coaching job experiences in the minors. I like the idea of a guy who has been fired as a head coach once or twice and who has also experienced a lot of success. Bednar won Championships in the ECHL and AHL, but was fired from an AHL job as well. Having been able to self assess failure as a head coach and then make adjustments is a huge advantage for a new NHL coach IMO.

Jared Bednar Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

I don't keep up with the up and coming coaches (or players) like I used to, so I'm going to limit my response to what "type" of coach I'd like to see. I love Manny Malhotra and Derek McKenzie for their time as players, but I don't know anything about them as coaches. I certainly don't know anything about the European coaches.

So here goes-

When Torts was hired, many of you will remember we had a "Country Club" atmosphere in the locker room. As I recall, we didn't really have a bad culture, we just didn't have any culture other than we were identified as a losing franchise. Torts was the perfect guy in my opinion to establish an identity and a culture. But, Torts style has a shelf life. That shelf life can be extended if the team is winning, but when the wheels come off, Torts style becomes spoiled milk in a hurry. That happened this year and it came quickly. I don't know why it happened this year, but I suspect it started in the bubble last season. Clearly there was some issue or he would have been extended prior to this season. I also think (just gut instinct) that Domi was not well received in the locker room. Then of course PLD happened (for reasons we may never know) and you could just feel the wheels coming off. Torts shelf life has reached expiration.

Now, what do we want in a new coach? I have suggested that before we do anything on a coach we have to know the answer to the Seth Jones question. If we are keeping Jones and trying to re-load, rather than re-build, I would be more comfortable with a more established head coach. Someone who has previous head coaching experience. Someone who can lead young men in a positive way and get the most out of their skill. I'd prefer someone with a bit more up tempo offensive style. We need to find someone who can take the team we have (with a few additions) and keep the team and the culture moving in the right direction.

If Jones does not re-sign, then it brings a whole different approach to the team and I think it's a full re-build. In that scenario, I'd be more comfortable going after a young guy with a bright future who can grow with the team. We can take a bigger gamble on the coach in this scenario because we're likely 2 or more years away from winning and no one knows which players will be on the roster. In this case the coach is going to have to build a new culture because there won't be many players left from the old regime.

If anyone has done the research on veteran and up and coming coaches that might be available, I'd love to read it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't understand why people would be so willing to hire Manny Malhotra, who is still very early in his coaching career, but would be up in arms if we hired that Finnish coach who's been talked about.

Malhotra's one of my all-time favorite Jackets, and if you can hire him into the org to groom him as your next guy, you do it. But I thought we learned a valuable lesson from the Arniel fiasco - he was a coach at various levels for close to a decade before we hired him and he was nowhere close to ready.

I'd much rather take a chance on a Finnish coach with a track record of success outside the NHL than take a flyer on someone with literally no head coaching experience at any level.

Are you sure it’s the same people? Maybe it turns out some people would be ok with either?

 

[LoneFunyan]

Are you sure it’s the same people? Maybe it turns out some people would be ok with either?

No, I'm not - but what I can say with some certainty is that outside of the fans from Finland, I haven't heard anyone who said they'd even be OK (not happy with, but just "OK, whatever") with the guy from Finland and I've seen multiple posts that are pro-Manny (and don't recall one that is even "meh Manny").

So extrapolating from that: everyone hates Finnish guy, everyone loves Manny.

 

[LoneFunyan]

If Jones does not re-sign, then it brings a whole different approach to the team and I think it's a full re-build. In that scenario, I'd be more comfortable going after a young guy with a bright future who can grow with the team. We can take a bigger gamble on the coach in this scenario because we're likely 2 or more years away from winning and no one knows which players will be on the roster. In this case the coach is going to have to build a new culture because there won't be many players left from the old regime.

I think this post illustrates the absolute ditch we are currently in.

Will Seth Jones want to re-sign if he doesn't know who the coach will be?

Will an established coach want to re-sign if he doesn't know what the roster will look like and whether the #1 defenseman is going to stick around or not? Is an established coach going to want to come into a team that's likely 3 years away from a winning record if Jones goes? Is an established coach going to want to come into a team that was among the league's doormats the season before but now has rearranged the deck chairs enough that the GM expects a single-season turnaround?

Will a new coach have the right system, approach, attitude, whatever to deal with the current roster, except what will the "current roster" even be?

Honestly, I cannot remember a time in this org's past where they were in this bad a shape on and off ice, in the system, etc. It is for this reason that I am starting to get on board with the Finnish coach - whose name I now refuse to look up because it amuses me (and likely only me) that I'm going to advocate for someone whose name I don't know. Finnish coach may be the best conglomeration of:

• Coach with some kind of upper level track record
• Coach who would be willing to take a chance on a sad sack team just to break into the ranks
• Coach with experience handling "pro" players as well as younger and amateurs

He honestly seems like the best overall choice given all our uncertainty.

 

[Nanabijou]

I'm very intrigued by Jalonen, but do not know enough about his style and personality to be able to make a reasonable prediction on how well his skills would translate to the NHL.

 

[LoneFunyan]

I have zero opinion on Maholtra, however he has been an NHL assistant for 4 years. Rod Brind'Amour was a 7 year assistant with no head coaching experience prior to being named head coach and he's turned out OK.

I prefer the new head coach who gets hired has a resume similar to Bednar's in Colorado. Maybe not quite as much time prior to being named head coach in the NHL, but with multiple head coaching job experiences in the minors. I like the idea of a guy who has been fired as a head coach once or twice and who has also experienced a lot of success. Bednar won Championships in the ECHL and AHL, but was fired from an AHL job as well. Having been able to self assess failure as a head coach and then make adjustments is a huge advantage for a new NHL coach IMO.

Jared Bednar Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

I wouldn't be upset with Malhotra if he's hired - I'd love to see the guy back in the organization. More like..skeptical I guess? Is this really the right guy, or was he hired due to his connections to the org and the PR they can push with him at the helm since he's kind of an early era CBJ icon?

I don't want Manny to become Scott Arniel 2.0. Gallant's another decent example of someone being given the reigns way too early - he was only about 3 years into his NHL coaching experience and had spent about 5 years in lower echelons coaching before that and he got steamrolled in his short time here, and that was at a similarly low point in the franchise's history. And he was a good coach, he just needed more time to learn the ropes.

 

[koteka]

I am ok with keeping Torts.

I am ok with hiring a Finn.

I am ok with hiring Malhotra.

I am ok with hiring someone else that is high risk high reward.

I am ok hiring someone like Tony Granato thinking he has NHL experience but has also spent the last 5 years working with college guys so might be good developing and dealing with this generation of players.

I am not ok with firing Torts and hiring a retread coach.

I think CBJ management needs a plan. If they go for a European or former player, they should expect some bumps in the road. I see what IU basketball has done, putting Thad Matta in the building so there is an experienced guy around the program that doesn’t threaten their new coach, but is an asset to be used. I could see trying something like that. Find an old coach who doesn’t want to coach again but still wants to be involved and give him a special assistant to the GM role. So there is almost an unofficial mentor around but not in the way.

They also, as a courtesy, might want to talk to Jones and Werenski and maybe some other guys and ask for their opinion on what kind of coach should be hired next. Not give them a vote or a veto, but be clear with them that they can give advice and it will be considered. Maybe this could be done during the exit interviews and not as a full blown “let’s sit down and discuss coaches” type situation.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

No, I'm not - but what I can say with some certainty is that outside of the fans from Finland, I haven't heard anyone who said they'd even be OK (not happy with, but just "OK, whatever") with the guy from Finland and I've seen multiple posts that are pro-Manny (and don't recall one that is even "meh Manny").

So extrapolating from that: everyone hates Finnish guy, everyone loves Manny.

Let’s be clear. If you don’t love Manny, you are anti-Jacket, anti-hockey, anti-cute animals and probably anti-tacos.

that doesn’t mean you can’t prefer the Jalonen dude, who, in point of fact, in one of the images I saw of him on the internet, bears a slight resemblance to my brother.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

Are you sure it’s the same people? Maybe it turns out some people would be ok with either?

No kidding. My post was used as an example of people being up in arms about hiring a coach from Finland which I don't have a problem with. I'm just pro-Manny, not anti-Finland.

 

[LoneFunyan]

Let’s be clear. If you don’t love Manny, you are anti-Jacket, anti-hockey, anti-cute animals and probably anti-tacos.

I believe this is correct, yes.