The Jarmo Thread

[Cyclones Rock]

Well, the Jackets have made the playoffs 4 straight years (albeit by a different method last year) and actually advanced once to the 2nd round. I think he gets a C-.

I have no problem with that grade as it would suggest that it's change time.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Went through and looked at all his trades, re-signings, signings, coach decisions. and draft picks. I arrived on a B for Jarmo. Then you factor in all the toxic behaviors below the surface, and I settled on a C+.

Again, there's no reason to make a change IMO.

 

[Murky]

The thing that always confuses me about Jarmo is how he always talks about "playing the right way" while having Torts as a coach but drafts and trades for skill. Torts doesnt get the most out of those type of players and even though he says he likes working with kids and helping them grow I just dont think hes great at it. A guy like Anderson should be damn near a perfect player to both Jarmo and Torts but was still moved for a skilled defensively irresponsible player.
Jarmo and Torts have similar attitudes in some respects but seem to have different visions in mind and I dont think it can continue for much longer

I am not a CBJ fan and I came here with the influx of Laine fans, which I am. But I am a long time follower of JK since HIFK is my team in Finland since I moved in in the end of the 90's and I was there during his time in HIFK.

Years and years ago, when JK was finding his feet in Finland after his short lived NHL career he was hired as manager of sports in HIFK Helsinki in Finland. HIFK is a bit of brand in Finland and in some ways it is a lot like the Canadiens are in the NHL although not nearly as succesful. Come to think of it they are more like the TML. Anyhow...

HIFK has been around sinc 1897 and they wanted to make a big splash for their 100th anniversary. Their then old time strong man - closest parallel would be an owner GM in the NHL - Frank Moberg hired Kekalainen to make the noise. Moberg is a Finnish aristocrate and a somewhat of a divisive figure that I have had the pleasure of knowing personally. And he is the most charming and warm old time gentleman you can ever meet. Anyway, parallels to CBJ and Torts are pretty easy to see. Kekalainen built his HIFK with extreme talent and toughness - meaning nothing in between, but especially to play "the right way" which is the Torts way. Give it your all, your last drop of blood for the team every time all the time. The 100th anniversary of the HIFK was a disaster in the end. 1998 - a year later - JK had assembled a squad that is probably by far the best team in Finnish ice hockey, ever. I realize others may disagree but they are mistaken. They bulldozed their way to the championship by playing very tough hockey with some super skilled individuals in the mix to score the goals. They even clearly sacrificed wins in the regular season to send the message for later to teams they deemed as a threat. They also played the refs by playing down right dirty in the regular season and complaing about every call in the Finnish media. Then they played just pretty damn dirty in the playoffs and got all the calls. HIFK had NHL talent all through the roster and they just walked over everyone towards the championship in the end.

The problem with CBJ is that NHL is a different beast from Liiga and CBJ is not TML or NYR. I think Kekalainen may have a mistaken view of his leverage towards the negotiations because rationally and objectively a buck is a buck. JK was and it is my impression that he still is super rational. But unfortunately it is not so easy in the NHL. A LAK buck is more than a CGY buck. I do think he has the smarts but he needs to build a real contender soon or he will start wearing off his welcome.

It has always been tough for smaller market teams even with good owners, like CBJ has. JK is playing from a position of a disadvantage, fair or not. I would probably love it in Columbus but this is your regular 20-30 kids that have been given millions that we are talking about. And from my dealings with pro-hockey players current and former, I feel pretty safe to distract 6-8 years from that in reality..

But from where I am looking, it is very easy to see why Torts is the coach for JK and what he is trying to do. It is just very much harder to do in the NHL.

 

[NotWendell]

And the irony is a CBJ buck is actually MORE than a LAK buck because it goes much farther here. But it doesn't come with an ocean or mountains or abundant sunshine or celebrities or great clubs. Now I'm depressed. LOL

 

[Murky]

And the irony is a CBJ buck is actually MORE than a LAK buck because it goes much farther here. But it doesn't come with an ocean or mountains or abundant sunshine or celebrities or great clubs. Now I'm depressed. LOL

You should not be. What is real is still real. The fact that some people cannot appreciate it enough, makes it no less real.

EDIT: If JK could build a contender the relative buck would be a lot more in Columbus. I understand it is painful from the inside but Columbus has not done bad at all, in reality. It is a fine franchise. JK just needs a touch of luck. For whatever he is, he is not the one shying away from seizing the opportunity as seen with his acquisitions facing the inevitable departure of Panarin (sad) and Bobrovski (not quite as sad).

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The thing that always confuses me about Jarmo is how he always talks about "playing the right way" while having Torts as a coach but drafts and trades for skill. Torts doesnt get the most out of those type of players and even though he says he likes working with kids and helping them grow I just dont think hes great at it. A guy like Anderson should be damn near a perfect player to both Jarmo and Torts but was still moved for a skilled defensively irresponsible player.

Jarmo and Torts have similar attitudes in some respects but seem to have different visions in mind and I dont think it can continue for much longer

As if skilled players can’t play the right way?

Just posted about this in the Torts thread.

Theres a long-running topic that the two can’t get on the same page. I disagree.

I believe that Jarmo wants skilled, quick, hockey-sense guys (at least some combination thereof, i.e. the modern player for the modern game) and he wants Torts to teach them how to play ‘the right way’, how to be a pro, etc. (the traditional game). How that plan has worked out in various cases is another matter entirely, but the larger plan I believe is being executed.

 

[majormajor]

The thing that always confuses me about Jarmo is how he always talks about "playing the right way" while having Torts as a coach but drafts and trades for skill. Torts doesnt get the most out of those type of players and even though he says he likes working with kids and helping them grow I just dont think hes great at it. A guy like Anderson should be damn near a perfect player to both Jarmo and Torts but was still moved for a skilled defensively irresponsible player.
Jarmo and Torts have similar attitudes in some respects but seem to have different visions in mind and I dont think it can continue for much longer

I think there might be a long term trend of Jarmo taking the truculent hitters for granted because the team was so overstocked with them when he arrived. Howson left him Anderson, Jenner, Dubinsky, Foligno, Mackenzie, and Calvert. We're down to two, and they're getting old. Eric Robinson is a good player but he is a patsy compared to those guys.

But Jarmo and Torts have combined to do great things with Texier and Bjorkstrand. When you have that skill and then add the compete level it makes a heck of a player. I'll sign up for more of that.

And supposedly Jarmo came very close to giving Anderson his deal. You have to really appreciate a player to give him that contract after a 1 goal season.

 

[EspenK]

From today's Athletic ( a tongue in cheek column on the trade deadline but this one hits a bit hard):

Columbus Blue Jackets: The single most important decision a smart GM can make is to know when his team can’t realistically win a Cup and reload for the future by moving out expiring contracts for high picks and prospects at just the right time, but since it’s not 2019 anymore I guess they’ll have to settle for doing it now.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

From today's Athletic ( a tongue in cheek column on the trade deadline but this one hits a bit hard):

Columbus Blue Jackets: The single most important decision a smart GM can make is to know when his team can’t realistically win a Cup and reload for the future by moving out expiring contracts for high picks and prospects at just the right time, but since it’s not 2019 anymore I guess they’ll have to settle for doing it now.

I know it’s McIndoe (who I like a lot and think is generally hilarious) so a lot of it’s tongue-in-cheek, BUT... that team could have realistically won a Cup. They swept the Presidents Trophy winner. They took the eastern conference champs to 6 in a very competitive series. Had they gotten past Boston (or, just my opinion, had Toronto not choked away a 3-2 series lead against BOS), then the CBJ is playing St Louis in the SCF. To me, that’s a realistic chance at winning the whole thing. It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean winning the Cup was a pipe dream.

I still have absolutely no problem with the choice to go all-in. The Dzingel and McQuaid trades were mistakes (the Dzingel one arguably being the worst trade in franchise history besides Carter 1, and hurts Jarmo’s legacy), but the Duchene trade and decision to not trade Panarin/Bob was still the right call, in my opinion.

 

[Cowumbus]

I know it’s McIndoe (who I like a lot and think is generally hilarious) so a lot of it’s tongue-in-cheek, BUT... that team could have realistically won a Cup. They swept the Presidents Trophy winner. They took the eastern conference champs to 6 in a very competitive series. Had they gotten past Boston (or, just my opinion, had Toronto not choked away a 3-2 series lead against BOS), then the CBJ is playing St Louis in the SCF. To me, that’s a realistic chance at winning the whole thing. It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean winning the Cup was a pipe dream.

I still have absolutely no problem with the choice to go all-in. The Dzingel and McQuaid trades were mistakes (the Dzingel one arguably being the worst trade in franchise history besides Carter 1, and hurts Jarmo’s legacy), but the Duchene trade and decision to not trade Panarin/Bob was still the right call, in my opinion.

If you look at that roster they UNDERachieved. That is a Stanley Cup contending roster.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

From today's Athletic ( a tongue in cheek column on the trade deadline but this one hits a bit hard):

Columbus Blue Jackets: The single most important decision a smart GM can make is to know when his team can’t realistically win a Cup and reload for the future by moving out expiring contracts for high picks and prospects at just the right time, but since it’s not 2019 anymore I guess they’ll have to settle for doing it now.

I feel like I’m the last remaining person on here who regrets nothing from the deadline. We traded almost nothing for a chance at a cup

 

[MoeBartoli]

I know it’s McIndoe (who I like a lot and think is generally hilarious) so a lot of it’s tongue-in-cheek, BUT... that team could have realistically won a Cup. They swept the Presidents Trophy winner. They took the eastern conference champs to 6 in a very competitive series. Had they gotten past Boston (or, just my opinion, had Toronto not choked away a 3-2 series lead against BOS), then the CBJ is playing St Louis in the SCF. To me, that’s a realistic chance at winning the whole thing. It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean winning the Cup was a pipe dream.

I still have absolutely no problem with the choice to go all-in. The Dzingel and McQuaid trades were mistakes (the Dzingel one arguably being the worst trade in franchise history besides Carter 1, and hurts Jarmo’s legacy), but the Duchene trade and decision to not trade Panarin/Bob was still the right call, in my opinion.

Agree the trades gave them a good enough team to compete for the Cup. Looking back, my biggest criticism is that they should have added Stone over Duchene and/or Dzingel. His cost was reasonable.

 

[majormajor]

I feel like I’m the last remaining person on here who regrets nothing from the deadline. We traded almost nothing for a chance at a cup

We paid a late 1st and B prospects for Duchene, and we could have gotten a late 1st and some B prospects for Panarin, maybe a 2nd for Bob (who had a bad playoff rep at that time). 2 late 1sts, so I wouldn't say "almost nothing" but I generally agree. People are making it out to be a franchise altering moment and it really truly was a lot closer to nothing than that.

Agree the trades gave them a good enough team to compete for the Cup. Looking back, my biggest criticism is that they should have added Stone over Duchene and/or Dzingel. His cost was reasonable.

That's something I think about way too often. Stone is a great player and I think the Jackets would have won with him with even luck. I remember I was posting about Stone everyday leading up to that deadline.

We know Jarmo asked for Stone and balked at the price. We don't know what the cost was though. It might not have been reasonable. Yes Vegas only paid Brannstrom, but Brannstrom was considered a top 15-20 prospect at that time. We didn't have someone quite at that level. What did Ottawa ask for? 1st + Texier? More?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

We paid a late 1st and B prospects for Duchene, and we could have gotten a late 1st and some B prospects for Panarin, maybe a 2nd for Bob (who had a bad playoff rep at that time). 2 late 1sts, so I wouldn't say "almost nothing" but I generally agree. People are making it out to be a franchise altering moment and it really truly was a lot closer to nothing than that.

Davidsson is not an never was a B prospect. Jarmo hype aside, he was a marginal prospect.

Abramov and the first became B tier prospects. And Abramov still isn’t good enough to crack Ottawa. The prospect could still turn into something, as could Abramov, but Is that better than Duchene? I say no.

ill stick with we gave up nothing. The only bad deals were Dzingel and Kinkaid.

 

[majormajor]

Davidsson is not an never was a B prospect. Jarmo hype aside, he was a marginal prospect.

Abramov and the first became B tier prospects. And Abramov still isn’t good enough to crack Ottawa. The prospect could still turn into something, as could Abramov, but Is that better than Duchene? I say no.

ill stick with we gave up nothing. The only bad deals were Dzingel and Kinkaid.

It was a good trade for us, no doubt. And no, Lassi Thomson and Abramov are not strong prospects for the Sens, so in that sense it will most likely be nothing for them.

 

[MissADD]

I feel like I’m the last remaining person on here who regrets nothing from the deadline. We traded almost nothing for a chance at a cup

I don't regret that deadline at all. The prospects Jarmo traded have only played a total of 9 NHL games and have gotten 2 points. This picks it will be a few years before we know how they turned out. But the Dzingel trade did net the CBJ Tyler Angle and he looks like he has the possibility of being an ok NHLer. I think that part gets overlooked.

 

[Finner]

Keeping Panarin and Bob, getting Duche d and winning playoff serie was the best thing that has happen to this organization. Would i do it again with same result and price? Definitely. Thats the moment what warms me when i see this team being one of the worst teams right now. That TDL was epic and i love it.

 

[majormajor]

Panarin has 21 pts in his last 10 games, and the Rangers have been great in that span.

Imagine the Jackets with a top 5-man unit of

Panarin - Dubois - Bjorkstrand
Werenski - Jones

Jarmo has had shit luck in this last couple years. His blueprint was excellent, I can't fault him for that. He's a good GM, I'm more confident with him going forward.

 

[EspenK]

The problem wasn't necessarily the deadline deals. He should have traded Panarin & Bob early when they wouldn't extend.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

It’s about time we had this ‘evaluate what Jarmo did at the 2019 deadline’ discussion.

 

[Bruce Granville]

It’s about time we had this ‘evaluate what Jarmo did at the 2019 deadline’ discussion.

Again?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Panarin has 21 pts in his last 10 games, and the Rangers have been great in that span.

Imagine the Jackets with a top 5-man unit of

Panarin - Dubois - Bjorkstrand
Werenski - Jones

Jarmo has had shit luck in this last couple years. His blueprint was excellent, I can't fault him for that. He's a good GM, I'm more confident with him going forward.

Did his blueprint include having no clue how to deal with RFAs? You really do overplay the luck angle.

He did get lucky that Bowman made one of the dumbest trades of the century unloading Panarin for Saad.

Jarmo has one playoff series win (not counting the preliminary round of last year) in 8 years. That is not bad luck.

 

[jacketsnation]

Did his blueprint include having no clue how to deal with RFAs? You really do overplay the luck angle.

He did get lucky that Bowman made one of the dumbest trades of the century unloading Panarin for Saad.

Jarmo has one playoff series win (not counting the preliminary round of last year) in 8 years. That is not bad luck.

Better than anything in the past

 

[jacketsnation]

Not his fault no one wants to play here. Even guys we draft!

 

[JacketsDavid]

Keeping Panarin and Bob, getting Duche d and winning playoff serie was the best thing that has happen to this organization. Would i do it again with same result and price? Definitely. Thats the moment what warms me when i see this team being one of the worst teams right now. That TDL was epic and i love it.

Kind of shows how bad the franchise is when winning a first round series is the hi-lite of the organ-i-zation.
Yes we beat the best team in the league in that win, I get it.

But each year more than 50% of the teams make the playoffs.
More than 25% of the teams win a first round playoff series each year.

Yet that is our defining moment.

At the time I didn't like the gamble, but like everyone else I loved us winning the first round. But whenever you make bold moves you maybe the hero or you open yourself up to criticism. That's what the franchise is dealing with.

I can see it both ways - great to be bold, but personally I didn't see us being a championship team with the moves.