The Jarmo Thread

[pled]

Hoffman has padded goal stats, but he is expensive and atrocious at the defensive side of the game. Not a Jarmo/Torts type of player at all I'd say and no other teams seems keen to sign him either. Fans may go "ooh look we need to sign a 30 goal scorer for our wing" but there's more to it than that.

pretty sure it's more about the fact that no team are willing to give him money. any team would sign him for league minimum. but if he ask over 6 no one can afford that right now.

 

[majormajor]

I thought Werenski, Dubois, and Jones played fine during the season. It would have been nice if Dubois could have gotten more points, but that could have just been a down year for him. Being only his 3rd year, it is impossible to say if that's the player he will be. The playoffs were probably more indicative of the type of player he will be. The maturation of the younger guys is a tough one, but fair or not, I definitely would like to see more from them, meaning Texier and Bemstrom. I like Stenlund, but I just don't know how much he will improve. He was basically the same guy in his time in Cleveland. I really haven't seen enough of Foudy to have an opinion on him. The guy I really like is MacInnis. He has improved so much in his time here, I would love to see him carry it to the NHL. His last 3 AHL seasons he has put up 14 pts in 59 games, 24 pts in 71 games, and 30 pts in 45 games. He has been solid on the PP and the PK. If he keeps up that pace, I would think he should get a good look with the parent team. He has gotten noticeably better. I would like for Kukan to get a little better, and I do like Peeke, but he hasn't played enough to get a good gauge on him.

Dubois took a lot of games off this year. Werenski had a great year. Jones was just underutilized. He needs to be all over the ice to be fully utilized and Torts had everyone playing in a box this year. Torts says he's going to loosen things up, so I like that for Jones.



There's 3 players where the room for growth could make a big difference this year:

Dubois will be a great player when he finds his consistent level.
Werenski just took a huge step, he might have another in him.
Texier could pop as an all-around 50-60 pt guy this year.

If any of those players take that step it's worth a lot more than a UFA signing, and heck, we might get all three of them to step up.


MacInnis has gotten so much quicker this year but I don't know about the processing with the puck. I like him as a 4C long term Are he and Stenlund waiver exempt?

 

[pled]

MacInnis has gotten so much quicker this year but I don't know about the processing with the puck. I like him as a 4C long term Are he and Stenlund waiver exempt?

no

exempt player are : Elvis, VV, Kiv, Tarasov, Bem, Tex, Foudy, TFW, Sherwood, Pu, Peeke, Berni, Christiansen.

lots of guys gonna have to go through waiver

 

[CBJx614]

This whole debate started because I responded to a couple of your posts stating fans are impatient and don't care about the future.

I questioned the quote and you doubled down.

I listed several reason why it wasn't true. I used examples of short term player contracts that could help the team today without jeopardizing the future.

You then stated saying those signings would be no different than the Duchene trade (one year all in).

I posted all the trades that showed assets that were traded for Duchene and lost (Panarin). Signing a Free Agent, that costs nothing, to a one year deal is much different then Duchene/Panarin.

You then downplay the trades as a minor setback and deemed roster depth and some of the mid-lower draft picks as less important.

And still nothing on the original point.

I'll give you the answer: It's not true.

You don't think it's true.

If we had traded Panarin and Bob at the TDL these boards would have erupted and called for Jarmos head. Instead he pushed his chips to the middle of the table and took a shot that this organization has never even been close to achieving before. And as we all know, it didn't work out.

Yes I get that we gave up assets ( to which I argue the only true assets were the picks, I don't see anything else we gave up as valuable) for big time players who may or may not have a big impact on the team.


Now if Abramov, Davidson or the players picked with those draft picks we gave up make it to the NHL and have a meaningful career, I'll eat whatever crow I have coming my way. But I'd say those chances are pretty slim. It was a calculated risk and one that hasn't and likely won't make a big impact on the trajectory of the team. We had a stacked roster and a loaded prospect pool. Who did we give up that would still be on the roster today?

Duclair didn't re-sign with Ottawa and Torts wasn't going to open a spot for him here. That's a wash.

Davidsson and Abramov were already passed up by Tex, IMO Stenlund and IIRC Bemstrom, so they weren't likely going to have a spot to compete for.


And yes, signing FAs in a year where cap space is at a premium (even if it's only for a year) very well could impact the team for years down the line. I'd be willing to bet that Jarmo makes a move during the season for another long term brick that we wouldn't have been able to make had we signed a Hall or Hoffman.


That's just my opinion and we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[majormajor]

no

exempt player are : Elvis, VV, Kiv, Tarasov, Bem, Tex, Foudy, TFW, Sherwood, Pu, Peeke, Berni, Christiansen.

lots of guys gonna have to go through waiver

Is there some website tracking this, or did you calculate it yourself?

 

[majormajor]

If we had traded Panarin and Bob at the TDL these boards would have erupted and called for Jarmos head.

As one of like three "all-in" advocates I highly doubt the rest of the board would have joined in my anger over a sell-off. That's where the sentiment was, to call it quits.

And yes, signing FAs in a year where cap space is at a premium (even if it's only for a year) very well could impact the team for years down the line. I'd be willing to bet that Jarmo makes a move during the season for another long term brick that we wouldn't have been able to make had we signed a Hall or Hoffman.

I like the sound of that.

 

[pled]

Is there some website tracking this, or did you calculate it yourself?

capfriendly does it but it's not always 100% reliable.
Waivers Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

from my experience it sometimes doesn't count well in the summer but you can just look individual player if you want to be sure.

 

[Byrral]

You don't think it's true.

If we had traded Panarin and Bob at the TDL these boards would have erupted and called for Jarmos head. Instead he pushed his chips to the middle of the table and took a shot that this organization has never even been close to achieving before. And as we all know, it didn't work out.

That's just my opinion and we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

This is the answer but again you missed the entire point. So I will finalize my side and then you can triple down and be done with this.

The issue with our debate is that you have moved this conversation several times from my original statement to other issues outside of the original statement. Some of your posts I can even get behind or agree with. But the original statement, the one that I have pressed you on and have continued to press you on has not been answered. It has nothing to do with your assessment of what to do with the team. You have refused and will not answer that specific question for whatever reason you have.

Your comment was to fans who want to see the team add another piece or two to the current team. Saying that "Fans only care about shiny new objects" and "don't care about 5 years from now" is just not true. You have never owned or retracted "that" comment. The rest of your of comments are your personal opinion and they are absolutely fine. You can have a different opinion from me and I can accept that even if I disagree with it. What I will continue to call out are blanket statements, that you used as fact, when indeed they are not true.

Out.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Hoffman has padded goal stats, but he is expensive and atrocious at the defensive side of the game. Not a Jarmo/Torts type of player at all I'd say and no other teams seems keen to sign him either. Fans may go "ooh look we need to sign a 30 goal scorer for our wing" but there's more to it than that.

Hoffman has multiple 30 goal seasons in the NHL. Poke holes all you want in his game he would Join Cam as the only guy that has scored 30 goals in multiple seasons. My hope is that if you get a guy like that has a higher shooting %, scores a lot of goals, it picks up the offense for others on the team. Scoring can be contagious, so can scoring droughts.

 

[CLW]

Hoffman has multiple 30 goal seasons in the NHL. Poke holes all you want in his game he would Join Cam as the only guy that has scored 30 goals in multiple seasons. My hope is that if you get a guy like that has a higher shooting %, scores a lot of goals, it picks up the offense for others on the team. Scoring can be contagious, so can scoring droughts.

It's a fact that he has scored 30 goals multiple seasons. But...

 

[majormajor]

It's a fact that he has scored 30 goals multiple seasons. But...

I think there's still a decent discussion to be had whether his PP performance would make him a good target for the Jackets. But yes the 5v5 stuff is ugly and there's no reason for people to look at our second line and think it needs more Hoffman, it definitely doesn't.

 

[CLW]

Here's Jarmo saying outright that if your 5-on-5 game is not in place Torts won't reward you with PP time (speaking about Bemström in the interview below I think, the interview is a bit chopped up). I doubt Hoffman will be signed by the CBJ unless they have no other option, seeing Hoffman's ES struggles.

Jarmo also says

- that drafting Chinakhov was no random shot in the dark, they scouted him extremely meticulously.
- Mikko Koivu is still highly motivated to succeed at the NHL level
- Bemström needs to get stronger so he can compete physically, become harder to push off the puck and also to improve his overall game.

 

[EspenK]

30 goals are 30 goals. Who gives a flying f if they were 5v5, roe v wade.power play, shorthanded, above/below expected (whatever the hell that is).

 

[majormajor]

30 goals are 30 goals. Who gives a flying f if they were 5v5, roe v wade.power play, shorthanded, above/below expected (whatever the hell that is).

Torts, apparently.

 

[Crede777]

Torts, apparently.

And Jarmo apparently. Gotta get your 5v5 game in order before you get rewarded with PP time.

 

[EspenK]

And Jarmo apparently. Gotta get your 5v5 game in order before you get rewarded with PP time.

With the way the Jackets pp has been I think it would be beneficial to have someone who could improve it. And take Jenner & Foligno off the pp so they could continue their excellent 5v5 play.

 

[Viqsi]

30 goals are 30 goals. Who gives a flying f if they were 5v5, roe v wade.power play, shorthanded, above/below expected (whatever the hell that is).

Would you have been willing to pay Sam Gagner $4-5m/year? He was also a very effective power play specialist for us.

I don't mind the idea of adding Hoffman, but I am absolutely convinced he would cost far too much for what he brings. If Kekalainen can bring him on on what I would consider to be a reasonable deal for a power play specialist, then, hey, sure, go ahead and bring him in. But he's not a general-purpose fix to the offense. He's a specialist (albeit a potentially welcome one), and should be prioritized accordingly.

 

[EspenK]

Would you have been willing to pay Sam Gagner $4-5m/year? He was also a very effective power play specialist for us.

I don't mind the idea of adding Hoffman, but I am absolutely convinced he would cost far too much for what he brings. If Kekalainen can bring him on on what I would consider to be a reasonable deal for a power play specialist, then, hey, sure, go ahead and bring him in. But he's not a general-purpose fix to the offense. He's a specialist (albeit a potentially welcome one), and should be prioritized accordingly.

One year at 5 mill? Unless there is an internal cap, why not?

 

[Viqsi]

One year at 5 mill? Unless there is an internal cap, why not?

Opportunity cost w/r/t other folks that could become available later that are better all-around fixes.

 

[stevo61]

I dont think simply adding a big shot in Hoffman solves the PP issue at all, we have an internal option with a bomb in Bemstrom. Honestly one of my biggest issues with the PP and it has been for awhile Werenski. Love the guy and hes an unreal talent but hes not quick to move the puck and look for other options and I think thats why I liked the look of the PP when Murray was there. Jones too is a solid option and good puck mover but I think Werenski needs to evolve a bit more in that area and it will do wonders for everyone

 

[majormajor]

Opportunity cost w/r/t other folks that could become available later that are better all-around fixes.

Regardless, Jarmo can't make promises to Hoffman that he would be given plenty of ice time or plenty of PP time. Hoffman would have to come here and fully accept battling out through a John Tortorella training camp and competing with a deep group of forwards for ice time, all the while the coach prioritizes strong 5v5 play and uses PP time as a reward for it. Gagner came here with few other suitors. As poor as the market is for Hoffman, I can't see him as the type of guy wanting to make that move. He'll probably want to keep playing on teams like Florida where ice time comes easy and lazy backchecks don't get you benched.

 

[majormajor]

I dont think simply adding a big shot in Hoffman solves the PP issue at all, we have an internal option with a bomb in Bemstrom. Honestly one of my biggest issues with the PP and it has been for awhile Werenski. Love the guy and hes an unreal talent but hes not quick to move the puck and look for other options and I think thats why I liked the look of the PP when Murray was there. Jones too is a solid option and good puck mover but I think Werenski needs to evolve a bit more in that area and it will do wonders for everyone

I agree in that the distribution is the bigger problem - we've got one-timer options that we rarely even use as is.

I wouldn't have put anything on Werenski but I can't say there isn't a lot of room for improvement in his QB'ing.

 

[stevo61]

I agree in that the distribution is the bigger problem - we've got one-timer options that we rarely even use as is.

I wouldn't have put anything on Werenski but I can't say there isn't a lot of room for improvement in his QB'ing.

I dont blame him by any means but its an obvious need for improvement for him and the team. I think back to how often Bread had to be cursing under his breath waiting for pucks that never came and as a team we wasted that strength of his. I hope Bemstrom doesnt suffer a similar fate as he obviously isnt as talented as Panarin in other situations to make up for taking away his best attribute

 

[CLW]

As poor as the market is for Hoffman, I can't see him as the type of guy wanting to make that move. He'll probably want to keep playing on teams like Florida where ice time comes easy and lazy backchecks don't get you benched.

With Zito as new GM in Florida I think the lazy days are over. Zito clearly wants to make the team 'harder to play against', tighten up the defense and load the system with two-way players. Drafting guys like Lundell and Heineman and bringing in more hardnosed guys are steps in that direction.

It probably wouldn't harm Hoffman at all to go through a Torts camp and pick up his two way game.

 

[CBJx614]

I agree in that the distribution is the bigger problem - we've got one-timer options that we rarely even use as is.

I wouldn't have put anything on Werenski but I can't say there isn't a lot of room for improvement in his QB'ing.

I dont blame him by any means but its an obvious need for improvement for him and the team. I think back to how often Bread had to be cursing under his breath waiting for pucks that never came and as a team we wasted that strength of his. I hope Bemstrom doesnt suffer a similar fate as he obviously isnt as talented as Panarin in other situations to make up for taking away his best attribute

This was my biggest gripe about Torts/PP during the Panarin years. If you watched his goal highlights from Chicago it was literally 3/4 of nothing but one timers. And for some reason we almost never put him in position to take one timers.