The Hockey Hall of Fame needs more Non-North American players

[Pominville Knows]

Strictly speaking; what are the list of pre-Berlin 1989 euros that should be inducted ahead of any 'first year eligible slam-dunk player' that may be present in the coming years?
But sure; please also include more modern players that has been waiting for a more or less considerable time by now(3-5 years i guess), before any more such coming players should.

 

[GRob83]

Should the best hockey player ever from Nigeria, Tanzania, and Zaire be inducted as well?

Or should we leave geography out of the equation when evaluating the merits of a player's place in the HHOF?

In fact, now that I think about it, there is a huge discrepancy between the number of Europeans and Africans being inducted

125 of the 146 forwards in the Hockey Hall of Fame are Canadian. That's 86%. Sorry if I think they have room for a few Russians and Slovakians that are among the best players ever from their countries. Slovakia certainly doesn't win the World Championship in 2002 without Bondra who was their leading goal scorer and remains their only gold medal in the competition.

 

[Pominville Knows]

125 of the 146 forwards in the Hockey Hall of Fame are Canadian. That's 86%. Sorry if I think they have room for a few Russians and Slovakians that are among the best players ever from their countries. Slovakia certainly doesn't win the World Championship in 2002 without Bondra who was their leading goal scorer and remains their only gold medal in the competition.

I think Vladimir Dzurilla should be in before Peter Bondra, if we are talking Slovakians per se. Even Zigmund Palffy got a solid case to be in before Bondra; and he is a contemporary of his.
Hell; maybe latvian Helmut Balderis should too.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There are 146 forwards in the HHOF. 89 debuted before 1967 expansion. 57 afterwards. 19 post expansion forwards are non Canadian.

While I agree more Soviets should be in, using the total number is misleading. Very very few non Canadians were HHOF caliber in the first half of the sport's existence.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Have 86% of pros all time (including Euro leagues, etc.) been Canadian?

Probably not answerable, but regardless, this is such a weird macro stance around Peter Bondra being a HOFer...

Was he even better than Ziggy Palffy...? or Dany Heatley...?

This is a long way to go for very little pay off...

Why not show off all the plays that Michal Pivonka botched that prevented Bondra from recording any relevant amount of assists in his career compared to all other 500 goal scorers...?

Fewest assists for 400 goal scorers...
1. Pavel Bure 342 (702 GP)
2. Rick Vaive 347 (876 GP)
3. Rick Nash 368 (1060 GP)
4. Peter Bondra 389 (1081 GP)

 

[GRob83]

Have 86% of pros all time (including Euro leagues, etc.) been Canadian?

Probably not answerable, but regardless, this is such a weird macro stance around Peter Bondra being a HOFer...

Was he even better than Ziggy Palffy...? or Dany Heatley...?

This is a long way to go for very little pay off...

Why not show off all the plays that Michal Pivonka botched that prevented Bondra from recording any relevant amount of assists in his career compared to all other 500 goal scorers...?

Fewest assists for 400 goal scorers...
1. Pavel Bure 342 (702 GP)
2. Rick Vaive 347 (876 GP)
3. Rick Nash 368 (1060 GP)
4. Peter Bondra 389 (1081 GP)

Neither one scored 400 goals or ever led the league in goals much less scoring 500+ and leading the league twice. It's funny you mention the assists because there are only 2 players in NHL History with over 500 Goals and Under 500 Assists. Maurice Richard and Peter Bondra. Why didn't Richard have more assists playing on a dynasty team surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Neither one scored 400 goals or ever led the league in goals much less scoring 500+ and leading the league twice. It's funny you mention the assists because there are only 2 players in NHL History with over 500 Goals and Under 500 Assists. Maurice Richard and Peter Bondra. Why didn't Richard have more assists playing on a dynasty team surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[MXD]

Neither one scored 400 goals or ever led the league in goals much less scoring 500+ and leading the league twice. It's funny you mention the assists because there are only 2 players in NHL History with over 500 Goals and Under 500 Assists. Maurice Richard and Peter Bondra. Why didn't Richard have more assists playing on a dynasty team surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career?

Maurice Richard retired as the Canadiens assist leader and was, on top of my head, 3rd in NHL career assists at the time of his retirement, and we have very good reason to believe the player who was 2nd was helped A LOT on his way to that second place.

Assists were also handed less liberally when Richard played than when Bondra played. A

 

[Professor What]

Neither one scored 400 goals or ever led the league in goals much less scoring 500+ and leading the league twice. It's funny you mention the assists because there are only 2 players in NHL History with over 500 Goals and Under 500 Assists. Maurice Richard and Peter Bondra. Why didn't Richard have more assists playing on a dynasty team surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career?

Oh yeah, we all know it was as easy to rack up as many assists in a 50-60 game season as in an 82 game season. Are you even trying to make sense at this point?

 

[Michael Farkas]

I........uhhh...woof...that's a lot...I...ugh...

I just hope that, in time, you'll take some time to learn and understand the context around this board and the history of the game and how to gather and present information (that doesn't immediately and thoroughly submarine your own case) and really become an engaged, coherent contributor to this board.

Because, like, the premise of the thread isn't even bad...it's really not. But just the way that you're going about this is actually harming Bondra's reputation in my mind...because now I'm looking even more into it and watching some Caps games and then reading your........thoughts...and, uhh, I've never thought less of Peter Bondra than I do right now haha

 

[GRob83]

Maurice Richard retired as the Canadiens assist leader and was, on top of my head, 3rd in NHL career assists at the time of his retirement, and we have very good reason to believe the player who was 2nd was helped A LOT on his way to that second place.

Assists were also handed less liberally when Richard played than when Bondra played. A

He also had 9 forwards, 4 defenseman and 2 goalies on his team that made the HHOF. Seems like he had plenty of capable players to pass the puck to so he should have had more, what a one trick pony

 

[Bear of Bad News]

He also had 9 forwards, 4 defenseman and 2 goalies on his team that made the HHOF. Seems like he had plenty of capable players to pass the puck to so he should have had more, what a one trick pony

Sounds like a "too many men on the ice" situation.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's funny too, because not only did Richard retire as the Xth best assist man ever...but I also personally find him to be a very one-dimensional player (which I've gone into detail about, particularly during our last big list) and then Bondra compares even poorer than him...but it was a point for Bondra...?

Instead of sewering Bondra even more than you're doing, why not get us some clips of Bondra's would-be assists that went to hands-less doofuses...I'm all about video...hell, point them out to me and I'll cut the video up myself and we'll make a montage. This is a serious offer.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Richard Bondra top 10 in points

Richard: 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Bondra:

Hmm

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

125 of the 146 forwards in the Hockey Hall of Fame are Canadian. That's 86%. Sorry if I think they have room for a few Russians and Slovakians that are among the best players ever from their countries. Slovakia certainly doesn't win the World Championship in 2002 without Bondra who was their leading goal scorer and remains their only gold medal in the competition.

Soon Chara walks into the HHoF and Slovakia will have three HoFers: pretty good for a country of 5.5 million inhabitants.

At any rate, almost everyone here agrees with the sentiment that the Hall should induct more European players, it’s just that we’re thinking of giving impact players behind the iron curtain their due rather than shoveling in borderline or worse HoF talent with NHL careers.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Soon Chara walks into the HHoF and Slovakia will have three HoFers: pretty good for a country of 5.5 million inhabitants.

At any rate, almost everyone here agrees with the sentiment that the Hall should induct more European players, it’s just that we’re thinking of giving impact players behind the iron curtain their due rather than shoveling in borderline or worse HoF talent with NHL careers.

This. It shouldn't be complicated. Like why are we even talking about Bondra when Anatoli Firsov isn't in?

Firsov
Balderis
Mikhailov
Maltsev
Holocek
Martinec
Vasiliev
Pospisil
Suchy
Krutov
Kasatonov
Bobrov

Like, these should all be easy HHOF inductions, right? A guy like Bobrov was a special level of pioneer and it's wild he isn't in.

 

[daver]

We need a certain Donald S, to weigh in on this topic.

 

[MXD]

He also had 9 forwards, 4 defenseman and 2 goalies on his team that made the HHOF. Seems like he had plenty of capable players to pass the puck to so he should have had more, what a one trick pony

You're implying that Maurice Richard should've assisted more on the goals scored Bill Durnan, Jacques Plante, Ken Reardon, Emile Bouchard, Doug Harvey and Tom Johnson like you're trying to jump 23 sharks simultaneously. It makes no sense, and you should probably stop for the sake of your argument.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

...How exactly Valery Kamensky has made it in this thread?

I get the mention in a purely hypothetical sense. He was seen as part of the new generation of upcoming stars when the Soviet Union collapsed. But of course, he didn't live up to that billing in the NHL

 

[GRob83]

You're implying that Maurice Richard should've assisted more on the goals scored Bill Durnan, Jacques Plante, Ken Reardon, Emile Bouchard, Doug Harvey and Tom Johnson like you're trying to jump 23 sharks simultaneously. It makes no sense, and you should probably stop for the sake of your argument.

The implication is that playing on the Canadiens in the 40's and 50's surrounded by numerous hall of fame players that were cherry picked and signed when there was no entry draft in a 6 team league is an incredible advantage for compiling statistics and winning Stanley Cups.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Richard Bondra top 10 in points

Richard: 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Bondra:

Hmm

I'd go 1 step further and look at their main calling card, goals.

Top 10 in goals:

Richard - 1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4,5,6
Bondra - 1,1,4,4,6,8

 

[GRob83]

I'd go 1 step further and look at their main calling card, goals.

Top 10 in goals:

Richard - 1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4,5,6
Bondra - 1,1,4,4,6,8

There were 6 teams in the league and the Canadiens were far and away the best among them. Richard led Montreal in points 5 times in 18 years while essentially playing on an all-star team, Bondra led the Capitals in points 5 times in 14 years and they were never considered a great team at all.

 

[ResilientBeast]

There were 6 teams in the league and the Canadiens were far and away the best among them. Richard led Montreal in points 5 times in 18 years while essentially playing on an all-star team, Bondra led the Capitals in points 5 times in 14 years and they were never considered a great team at all.

So?

If we took only Canadiens in the league right now and condensed them onto 6 teams, those teams would still look pretty dang good and competitive

 

[Michael Farkas]

There were 6 teams in the league and the Canadiens were far and away the best among them. Richard led Montreal in points 5 times in 18 years while essentially playing on an all-star team, Bondra led the Capitals in points 5 times in 14 years and they were never considered a great team at all.

So it was easier for Bondra to lead his team in points, you're saying...? In that case, I agree. And if he was a HOFer, he would have done it more. But he wasn't, so he didn't...

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

The cognitive dissonance of “he was the only scoring option, how could he get assists with such scrubs!” and “those scrubs outscored him in 9/14 seasons he spent in Washington” is very funny