The Hockey Hall of Fame needs more Non-North American players

[Professor What]

The cognitive dissonance of “he was the only scoring option, how could he get assists with such scrubs!” and “those scrubs outscored him in 9/14 seasons he spent in Washington” is very funny

Let it go long enough, and it might get worse yet. It's been getting worse since the thread started.

 

[wetcoast]

This. It shouldn't be complicated. Like why are we even talking about Bondra when Anatoli Firsov isn't in?

Firsov
Balderis
Mikhailov
Maltsev
Holocek
Martinec
Vasiliev
Pospisil
Suchy
Krutov
Kasatonov
Bobrov

Like, these should all be easy HHOF inductions, right? A guy like Bobrov was a special level of pioneer and it's wild he isn't in.

I know that some people really have taken the kool aid with Firsov around these parts but his HHOF case isn't all that great in context, it relies on some selective international performances against extremely weak competition along with subjective voting for his entire season based on those performances.

It's somewhat akin to looking at Daniel Briere as a playoff performer and then ignoring his actual overall performances and then elvating his status.

 

[wetcoast]

There were 6 teams in the league and the Canadiens were far and away the best among them. Richard led Montreal in points 5 times in 18 years while essentially playing on an all-star team, Bondra led the Capitals in points 5 times in 14 years and they were never considered a great team at all.

You do realize that his post doesn't really help whatever point you are trying to make about Bondra right?

 

[Professor What]

You do realize that his post doesn't really help whatever point you are trying to make about Bondra right?

I'm just here for the entertainment.

 

[seekritdude]

Whats with all these Irbe was weak comments etc? Irbe was considered the next big all star goalie before his huge injury that derailed his career for years. He had the "luxury" of playing for not just bad teams, in the league, but some of the worst teams in the HISTORY of the league and still made it out of that, and had many solid years in the league. He also got screwed by people like Keenan who although people remember that vancouver team as being shitty, actually would have made the playoffs if he would have just played Irbe as he actually had a winning record. I still say Irbe was robbed his first year in Carolina as well, how he didnt win the vesina let alone got basically jack shit for votes is beyond me.


Anyway just doing my normal popping in once in a blue moon as it always shocks me how theres just some people who seem to hate Irbe despite his I think pretty obvious accomplishments throughout his time in the league. He had a number of great seasons, despite again playing for some not just terrible teams, but some of the worst teams in the history of the game, was considered the next big goalie before his injury, and again still made it out alive. And yet hes the butt end of jokes like he just got lucky to some people and all his great seasons were flukes.

Whatever the case I dont think Irbe belongs the hall of fame, but the amount of random hate he gets from some people never ceases to amaze me even years later.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Thinking on it, I know its called the Hockey Hall of Fame, but I think you need to have done something of significance in the NHL to get it. Obvious exception being a Red Curtain situation where it wasn't their choice.

The generic "Hockey" part of it comes in when looking at the totality of your accomplishments on the international stage, but making an impact in the NHL is and should be a pre-requisite.

Personally I think its pure merit, but the caveat I like to consider is whether you can tell the story of the sport in an era without covering their career

Jonathan Quick wouldnt go very high in a redraft of the era, but his innovations in RVH make him a shoo-in for me

 

[MXD]

Whats with all these Irbe was weak comments etc? Irbe was considered the next big all star goalie before his huge injury that derailed his career for years. He had the "luxury" of playing for not just bad teams, in the league, but some of the worst teams in the HISTORY of the league and still made it out of that, and had many solid years in the league. He also got screwed by people like Keenan who although people remember that vancouver team as being shitty, actually would have made the playoffs if he would have just played Irbe as he actually had a winning record. I still say Irbe was robbed his first year in Carolina as well, how he didnt win the vesina let alone got basically jack shit for votes is beyond me.


Anyway just doing my normal popping in once in a blue moon as it always shocks me how theres just some people who seem to hate Irbe despite his I think pretty obvious accomplishments throughout his time in the league. He had a number of great seasons, despite again playing for some not just terrible teams, but some of the worst teams in the history of the game, was considered the next big goalie before his injury, and again still made it out alive. And yet hes the butt end of jokes like he just got lucky to some people and all his great seasons were flukes.

Whatever the case I dont think Irbe belongs the hall of fame, but the amount of random hate he gets from some people never ceases to amaze me even years later.

There is a whole spectrum of output between "bad" and "HHOFer".

 

[Staniowski]

The HHOF is still largely controlled by the NHL (via the Board of Directors, who choose the Selection Committee members).....there have obviously been changes and improvements in electing women and the best men players, but it's still uncertain when or if guys like Mikhailov, Krutov, Martinec, etc. will be inducted. They're chipping away at it, but how big of a priority will it ever be? That's the question.

 

[FerrisRox]

There is an absolutely huge discrepancy in representation at the Hockey Hall of Fame with the majority of players being born or raised in Canada. It makes me wonder if there should be a separate entity of the Hall of Fame that celebrates the careers of players not born and raised in North America and induct 10 or so players that haven't been elected yet to balance things out a bit more. I was born in 83 but I feel like Alex Mogilny, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Tomas Vokoun, Pavol Demitra, Jere Lehtinen, Arturs Irbe, Ziggy Palffy and of course some others are absolutely among the best players ever from their respective countries. Canada seems over represented while other countries lack of inductees and in some cases no inductees at all appears to be an oversight.

Of the names you have listed, the only one that has a remotely credible case for the Hall of Fame is Alexander Mogilny.

 

[Albatros]

Especially with Guy Carbonneau in, also Lehtinen has a case.

 

[Zine]

How can Larionov and Yakushev be in but not Maltsev, Mikhailov, Vasilyev, Firsov, Petrov, Ragulin, Krutov,?

 

[VMBM]

How can Larionov and Yakushev be in but not Maltsev, Mikhailov, Vasilyev, Firsov, Petrov, Ragulin, Krutov,?

Larionov I can sort of understand, since besides his Soviet/international career, he had a long and respectful NHL career (still, him getting in way before Makarov felt like a joke). The choice of Yakushev, as well as that of Nedomansky, on the other hand, sort of emphasized the — for want of a better term — North American bias that very much seems to be there; i.e. in addition to your European career, you either need to have also a North American hockey career (Ned) or at least a performance that 'they' can remember (like Yak in the '72 SS).

I'm somewhat interested to see who will get in next; my most immediate choices would be (in order); Firsov, Mikhailov/Maltsev, Martinec, Holecek, Krutov...

I think Mikhailov and Maltsev will get in eventually, possibly Krutov too, but unfortunately I'm not holding my breath vis-à-vis the others.

 

[JackSlater]

How can Larionov and Yakushev be in but not Maltsev, Mikhailov, Vasilyev, Firsov, Petrov, Ragulin, Krutov,?

Larionov played a long time in North America and is well liked, while Yakushev had a legendary performance in the Summit Series. It's that simple. Larionov is even on the HHOF selection committee now.

 

[Overrated]

Larionov played a long time in North America and is well liked, while Yakushev had a legendary performance in the Summit Series. It's that simple. Larionov is even on the HHOF selection committee now.

Yakushev would deserve to be in even if he missed the SSs all together. Afaik he was somewhat underrated in the USSR just like Petrov as it seems the Soviet preferred finesse over strength and size. When I used chidlovski website to look at the performance drop off against CAN/CSSR/SWE compared to weak teams Yakushev dropped off the least.

 

[JackSlater]

Yakushev would deserve to be in even if he missed the SSs all together. Afaik he was somewhat underrated in the USSR just like Petrov as it seems the Soviet preferred finesse over strength and size. When I used chidlovski website to look at the performance drop off against CAN/CSSR/SWE compared to weak teams Yakushev dropped off the least.

Sure, but being a big performer in the Summit Series is what got him in. The biggest Soviet legends coming out of that series, in Canada, were Kharlamov, Tretiak, and Yakushev. No surprise that Yakushev got in before other Soviets from that team who happened to be bigger names in Europe or that Kharlamov and Tretiak got in so much earlier than the others.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Europeans haven't been in the NHL in high numbers all that long in the grand scheme of the NHL. When the current generation and future generations retire, more will be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Europeans haven't been in the NHL in high numbers all that long in the grand scheme of the NHL. When the current generation and future generations retire, more will be in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah. It's just that we hope the inductions of Yakushev and Nedomansky is the committee slowly getting us to a situation where one more of the old USSR and CSSR stars can be inducted along with three NHL players; perhaps just in so called 'weak years'.
Obviously when the two of them was inducted much was written about their European careers to add substance to their in the grand scheme of things rather weak selling points as far as the 72 and 74 SS, Super Series and in Nedomanskys case his WHA years which was not exactly MVP quality anyways; even though he was over 30 at the time of course.
A trailblazer he was as well i guess.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah. It's just that we hope the inductions of Yakushev and Nedomansky is the committee slowly getting us to a situation where one more of the old USSR and CSSR stars can be inducted along with three NHL players; perhaps just in so called 'weak years'.

While it is called the 'Hockey Hall of Fame', it sits in Toronto and is heavily influenced by the NHL. Most Soviet players aren't that well known outside of a few prominent cases.

 

[Pominville Knows]

While it is called the 'Hockey Hall of Fame', it sits in Toronto and is heavily influenced by the NHL. Most Soviet players aren't that well known outside of a few prominent cases.

You are correct, but Yakushev and Nedomansky did shed some light of it all and Larionov is now on the committee. We just hope they started the process through these two.
And Makarov lets not forget! Ten to fifteen years ago he was off the map, but then THN and us over here started building momentum for him and before we knew it he was in.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You are correct, but Yakushev and Nedomansky did shed some light of it all and Larionov is now on the committee. We just hope they started the process through these two.

I agree that worthy Soviet players should get their due, but I see people talking about like Petr Bondra? I don't think he should get some sort of special consideration since he played his whole career in the NHL and didn't have a Hall of Fame worthy career just for the sake of greater of European representation.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I agree that worthy Soviet players should get their due, but I see people talking about like Petr Bondra? I don't think he should get some sort of special consideration since he played his whole career in the NHL and didn't have a Hall of Fame worthy career just for the sake of greater of European representation.

Dito. Would not be entirely surprised if one of the other Stastny's, Dzurilla, Balderis and Novy should get in before he does. Some of them perhaps more on par with him.

 

[Sentinel]

And Makarov lets not forget! Ten to fifteen years ago he was off the map, but then THN and us over here started building momentum for him and before we knew it he was in.

I take full credit for getting him into the HOF with my Youtube video

 

[Pominville Knows]

I take full credit for getting him into the HOF with my Youtube video

Yeah, but One thing in our favor is that we did it Before mainstream outlets started even talking about him as a single entity.