The Fate of Dubas

[hamzarocks]

Crosby is the better and more accomplished player. That’s why he got 17%.

3% of AAV is actually a substantial difference 14% is star money (kopitar/price/Tavares). 15% is superstar money (malkin/Kane/toews…. As over rated as he was).

Matthews should be closer to 15-16% as the best player in the league. He signed for reasonable at the time. But a good deal now

Well matthews isn't the best player in the league

2nd-5th with guys like Mack, Makar, Kuch, Drai as his competiton

McDavid is a tier of his own. Dudes won 4 of the last 6 rosses. Been NHL 1st team 4 of the last 6 years.

Matthews ranking starts after 97 despite an elite year where he took Hart +Lindsay

 

[Nineteen67]

No, the goal is to win the Stanley cup… you are trying to make them sound like some sort of Cinderella team.

They’re legitimate contenders to win it all.

There are reasons they can’t win one round, let alone four.

 

[Legion34]

Well matthews isn't the best player in the league

2nd-5th with guys like Mack, Makar, Kuch, Drai as his competiton

McDavid is a tier of his own. Dudes won 4 of the last 6 rosses. Been NHL 1st team 4 of the last 6 years.

Matthews ranking starts after 97 despite an elite year where he took Hart +Lindsay

He is the reigning best player in the league. He literally won the award.

I would trade Matthews for Mcdavid in a second. Very easily he could lose it next year. But the champ is the champ until he’s not

 

[Nineteen67]

Not convinced yet this year is his last chance. Shanahan is so stupid he'd probably run it back forever with him until the board fires them both.

Per Simmons Says in today’s Sun.….At some point the board will have to take notice.

“In the Brendan Shanahan era, Tampa Bay has played 155 playoff games. The Leafs have played 39. If you add it up, that’s about an additional $100 million or so in playoff revenue for the club that the Lightning has taken and the Leafs have not”

 

[Notsince67]

What's not very likely that they've lost 6 in a row? Because that's 100% happened already



Matthews will be making more then mcdavid for a couple of years which is a joke. He might be making as much as 4 mil a year more

If the rumours are true and he tries to just continuously go 2/3 years on his next extension so he can get paid more after we better not give him trade protection because that's him just trying to hold the franchise over a barrel for cash.

If he gets a 2 year deal he'll be on his third by the time mcdavid gets his second age wise. Just a total f*** up in negotiating. Giving marner trade protection his last two years was also a complete f*** up.

We over paid both and gave them the ability to hold the team hostage in the next negotiations.

Mcjesus left money on the table. The differences have nothing to do with negotiated salaries.
As for trade protection, it is a rather moot point as there isn't enough idiocy on the leafs to even contemplate trading a player of Marners caliber. The idiocy in leaf land is mostly isolated among factional clueless pockets of the fanbase

 

[hamzarocks]

He is the reigning best player in the league. He literally won the award.

I would trade Matthews for Mcdavid in a second. Very easily he could lose it next year. But the champ is the champ until he’s not

The best player in the league is determined over a time frame rather than 1 season. Otherwise Corry Perry would be the best player in the league in 2011.

McDavid had a historical playoff run too. 33 in 16, he put up video game numbers. We both know Matthews isn't putting up 2 pts a game in the western conference even if it's easier than the east.

 

[Legion34]

The best player in the league is determined over a time frame rather than 1 season. Otherwise Corry Perry would be the best player in the league in 2011.

McDavid had a historical playoff run too. 33 in 16, he put up video game numbers. We both know Matthews isn't putting up 2 pts a game in the western conference even if it's easier than the east.

The champ is the champ until defeated.

 

[hamzarocks]

The champ is the champ until defeated.

Disagree on that but its a fair POV.

I expect McDavid win 3 of the big 4 awards next year. He's looking to challenge 99 and 66

 

[Legion34]

Disagree on that but its a fair POV.

I expect McDavid win 3 of the big 4 awards next year. He's looking to challenge 99 and 66

He easily could. Like I said I would trade Matty for Mcdavid in a second.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah because the definition of insanity is….

the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah because the definition of insanity is….

People sure do love referencing this quote while not understanding what it means. Repeating the exact same scenario over and over and expecting a different result in a situation where there is only one possible, unchangeable outcome would be pretty "insane". That however does not equate to it being "insane" to have some parts of an input being the same and expecting a different result, especially in something like hockey where even the exact same player and scenario inputs could result in a wide range of different outcomes.

In fact, scientific study often involves making minor changes to inputs and observing the changing effects on the output.

 

[TheScandal89]

Crosby is the better and more accomplished player. That’s why he got 17%.

3% of AAV is actually a substantial difference 14% is star money (kopitar/price/Tavares). 15% is superstar money (malkin/Kane/toews…. As over rated as he was).

Matthews should be closer to 15-16% as the best player in the league. He signed for reasonable at the time. But a good deal now

Your saying Toews, a guy who Captained and was #1 centre for a dynasty that won 3 cups was over rated? The guys had some injury issues, and sure his stats aren't going to pass 1000, but over rated? He was the modern day steve yzerman. He played his position hard and while he wasn't the best he competed enough with better players to win and its taken its toll on his body.

I'd love just 1 cup, but imagine getting 3

 

[Legion34]

Your saying Toews, a guy who Captained and was #1 centre for a dynasty that won 3 cups was over rated? The guys had some injury issues, and sure his stats aren't going to pass 1000, but over rated? He was the modern day steve yzerman. He played his position hard and while he wasn't the best he competed enough with better players to win and its taken its toll on his body.

I'd love just 1 cup, but imagine getting 3

Yes. I would say that toews compared to malkin was over rated. You are proving this point.

You just called him the modern day Steve yzerman.

 

[TheScandal89]

Misquote

Malkin was never the #1 centre on Pittsburgh, yes he's a better player but he always had Crosby to fall back on. The Chicago years they won, they were fairly weak down the middle. Toews then it was like Bolland, Madden, etc. I never said Toews was better but hes not over rated, he was worth every damn penny after winning 3 cups, even if now its a burden from his declining play and health

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Your saying Toews, a guy who Captained and was #1 centre for a dynasty that won 3 cups was over rated? The guys had some injury issues, and sure his stats aren't going to pass 1000, but over rated? He was the modern day steve yzerman. He played his position hard and while he wasn't the best he competed enough with better players to win and its taken its toll on his body.

I'd love just 1 cup, but imagine getting 3

He had a solid defensive game, and he scored clutch goals. He was a winner playing for Canada and with Chicago. Sadly he probably played bigger than his body could withstand. You cannot say that he was overrated at the time CHI won all those cups.

 

[Legion34]

Misquote

Malkin was never the #1 centre on Pittsburgh, yes he's a better player but he always had Crosby to fall back on. The Chicago years they won, they were fairly weak down the middle. Toews then it was like Bolland, Madden, etc. I never said Toews was better but hes not over rated, he was worth every damn penny after winning 3 cups, even if now its a burden from his declining play and health

Toews was named one of the top 100 players of all time. People claimed he was the second best player on the planet. You just said he was a modern day Steve yzerman

That is literally the definition of over rated. When a person is rated OVER their skills abilities and accomplishments.

Kopitar was the No 1 C on 2 cup winners. Without a Kane.
He wasn’t listed as the second best player or top 100

Malkin won cups Ross. Smythe Pearson. Toews is a 33 year old cap dump.

They aren’t the same.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Toews was named one of the top 100 players of all time. People claimed he was the second best player on the planet. You just said he was a modern day Steve yzerman

That is literally the definition of over rated. When a person is rated OVER their skills abilities and accomplishments.

Kopitar was the No 1 C on 2 cup winners. Without a Kane.
He wasn’t listed as the second best player or top 100

Malkin won cups Ross. Smythe Pearson. Toews is a 33 year old cap dump.

They aren’t the same.

Maybe with Toews 2 things can be true:

He was never overrated.
He was never the 2nd best player on the planet.

 

[TheScandal89]

Toews was named one of the top 100 players of all time. People claimed he was the second best player on the planet. You just said he was a modern day Steve yzerman

That is literally the definition of over rated. When a person is rated OVER their skills abilities and accomplishments.

Kopitar was the No 1 C on 2 cup winners. Without a Kane.
He wasn’t listed as the second best player or top 100

Malkin won cups Ross. Smythe Pearson. Toews is a 33 year old cap dump.

They aren’t the same.

He was the modern day yzerman because he could shut down top centres, took a beating to do it and still provided offense to win 3 cups. Kopitar is another great player, but again down the middle they had some decent depth with a declining Richards and Stoll, with Carter as back up. Still better down the middle, allbeit, they didn't have a Kane or even a Hossa.

The point I'm making is Toews' role to those cup teams was so crucial. The most important trophy is the Cup. Matthews csn get 60 goals a year but if he never wins a cup then it doesnt matter in a team sport.

I still would never call that overrated, but hey its your opinion, no point arguing over and over, we made our points. By no means was I saying he was ever a top 5 player, but he is a top 5 winner in our generation.

 

[Legion34]

Maybe with Toews 2 things can be true:

He was never overrated.
He was never the 2nd best player on the planet.

????? That’s literally contradictory.

You can say he is a great player. You can say he won 3 cups. You can say he is a franchise legend.

You can’t say that toews was not over rated if he was called thr 2nd best player on the planet and named to f
The top 100 list.

He was very similar to kopitar. Almost identical. If he was rated similar then he would not be over rated.

 

[Legion34]

He was the modern day yzerman because he could shut down top centres, took a beating to do it and still provided offense to win 3 cups. Kopitar is another great player, but again down the middle they had some decent depth with a declining Richards and Stoll, with Carter as back up. Still better down the middle, allbeit, they didn't have a Kane or even a Hossa.

The point I'm making is Toews' role to those cup teams was so crucial. The most important trophy is the Cup. Matthews csn get 60 goals a year but if he never wins a cup then it doesnt matter in a team sport.

I still would never call that overrated, but hey its your opinion, no point arguing over and over, we made our points. By no means was I saying he was ever a top 5 player, but he is a top 5 winner in our generation.

You are comparing people of similar “intangibles” and 3 cups except one scored almost twice as many points.

 

[rocketman588]

Mcjesus left money on the table. The differences have nothing to do with negotiated salaries.
As for trade protection, it is a rather moot point as there isn't enough idiocy on the leafs to even contemplate trading a player of Marners caliber. The idiocy in leaf land is mostly isolated among factional clueless pockets of the fanbase

The issue is it gives Marner more negotiating leverage not that we're going to trade him

 

[capfit9]

It's looking like Dubas has yet again overpaid. Coming into this offseason the Top 3 UFA defencemen would've been Klingberg, Lindholm & Rielly.

Klingberg at $7M per for 1
Lindholm at $6.5M per for 8
Rielly at $7.5M per for 8

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

It's looking like Dubas has yet again overpaid. Coming into this offseason the Top 3 UFA defencemen would've been Klingberg, Lindholm & Rielly.

Klingberg at $7M per for 1
Lindholm at $6.5M per for 8
Rielly at $7.5M per for 8

Rielly cap hit is fine. I dislike Dubas more than you do but false claims doesn't help support why he sucks, only weakens credibility for why he sucks.

 

[capfit9]

Rielly cap hit is fine. I dislike Dubas more than you do but false claims doesn't help support why he sucks, only weakens credibility for why he sucks.

it's fine but not great

 

[Notsince67]

The issue is it gives Marner more negotiating leverage not that we're going to trade him

If you are ceding a concession that is meanless to you, it is usually a smart move.