The Erik "Gudzilla" Gudbranson Thread

[Icarium]

I left him out because I didn't disagree that he was a good acquisition.

That said, Brassard also looked pretty good in his first ten or so games, let's see of McCann can keep this level of play.

 

[td_ice]

It also seems like anytime we go the tough guy route, we get punished by the refs. Since we are "finesse" Penguins. It appears it comes off as retaliatory, and you know how the refs respond to that.

 

[Peat]

Reaves is the only nuclear option vs Wilson you can have if that's your priority. I was against that trade and philosophy, but if you really felt strongly, then keep the guy and play him. Instead, JR paid out the nose for the guy, Sully didn't play him, they dumped him and then JR cycled through Big Rig and now Gudbranson and got worse from a cap standpoint twice. It's maddening.

If there was to be an interpretative dance of that whole sequence, it would resemble a Wile E. Coyote best of montage.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Reaves is the only nuclear option vs Wilson you can have if that's your priority. I was against that trade and philosophy, but if you really felt strongly, then keep the guy and play him. Instead, JR paid out the nose for the guy, Sully didn't play him, they dumped him and then JR cycled through Big Rig and now Gudbranson and got worse from a cap standpoint twice. It's maddening.

It is what it is. Reaves was the only guy that could actually intimidate other guys like Wilson. They stupidly tossed him away, now he’s having a career year already with 20 games left still.

Someone mentioned Kassian is a UFA... he can play the game well as a fourth liner. He’s not Reaves, but he’s a legit tough guy. Maybe he could be an option instead of using uh, Garrett Wilson.

I guess if it makes anyone feel better, Gudbranson wrecked Tom Wilson last season.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I left him out because I didn't disagree that he was a good acquisition.

That said, Brassard also looked pretty good in his first ten or so games, let's see of McCann can keep this level of play.

Brass's value has sunk so low that he could only get a third round pick in return.

I am just saying that if you are going to crucify for the bad you have to be fair and not ignore the good. It the reverse of those people who come back from Vegas and tell me how they won $5,000 without telling me how they lost more overall.

 

[Gurglesons]

It is what it is. Reaves was the only guy that could actually intimidate other guys like Wilson. They stupidly tossed him away, now he’s having a career year already with 20 games left still.

Someone mentioned Kassian is a UFA... he can play the game well as a fourth liner. He’s not Reaves, but he’s a legit tough guy. Maybe he could be an option instead of using uh, Garrett Wilson.

I guess if it makes anyone feel better, Gudbranson wrecked Tom Wilson last season.

Is this what you are talking about?

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like Gudbranson would be the same. Either way, I just disagree with people when they say that physical DFDs are dying in today's NHL and teams don't succeed with these kind of guys. Guys like Gill and Scuderi are being phased out, but I don't think they're getting phased out because they're physical DFD. I think they're getting phased out because they're bad, and they're no longer positives for their team. I think a bad puck moving, physical DFD can easily survive in the NHL, they just need to be playing well.

Engelland is a great example of this. He has had horrid possession stats in literally every season he has been in the NHL, yet he's still in the NHL in a top-4 role and is only a -6 over his entire career. A physical DFD can easily have success for a long time in the NHL, the guys that get phased out can't be successful at the NHL level anymore. I call that being "bad", but I guess other people may find more specific reasons for it. A lack of puck moving talent or bad skating may be easy guesses to see, but teams happily will keep bad puck moving or bad skating DFD as long as they're good at not getting scored on.

I’ll put it this way. Toronto, Tampa, Winnipeg and San Jose are seens at the contenders this year.

Toronto -
Zaitsev

Tampa -
Girardi
Coburn

San Jose -
Dillon

Winnipeg -
None.

Still hate the trade and the idea, but if Gudbranson pairs well with Petts I could see him being at least okay.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm looking at the trades and signings he made in his first season and I'm struggling to believe that was originally the plan. Ditto tbh his trades in 2015 pre-Sully - Bonino, Fehr and Plotnikov is not a team looking to get quicker.

Its only with Sully he decided to embrace speed by getting Daley and Hagelin and since then, he's taken it for granted.

I neither agree nor disagree with the above, because sometimes you have to invoke Occam's razor and/or resist the urge to pinpoint a grand plan of any kind when there isn't necessarily one that can be adhered to 100% of the time.

If we look at each of these moves in a vacuum, there are a variety of reasons why they were made:

Sutter/Bones: Sutter was Sutter given that he's too soft and you're probably not going to win anything with a player like him, so we get Bones who can still contribute but is more in the mold of a traditional checking center.

Fehr: He was a depth add with the hope he could also move up the lineup in the event of injuries at wing. Not really a notable skater either way in my opinion.

Plots: A shot in the dark at a Euro/Russian coming over and being good in the NHL. No bearing on anything really.

Daley: The Hawks wanted rid of Daley because it was a bad fit, and they had that ridiculous philosophy where they thought it was a good idea to trade for worse players who happened to be locked into a contract. This deal is pretty much the stars aligning for the Penguins, and Daley happened to be a good skating puck mover.

Hags: Perron was lazy here and wasn't solving anything for us, and obviously you're not getting a consistent scorer for a lazy scorer, so you go for a different ingredient. Plus, it's just a swap of struggling players.

I think you have a general idea of what kind of team you want, but there are also a lot of circumstances that dictate trades, and those trades are not always going to be in line with what you're trying to do. Sometimes, often I would argue, you're just trying to make your team better and picking the best of a small number of trade options you have at each juncture. Who knows what JR's general goals were for the team other than making them better.

Excuse the novel. It's a quiet afternoon

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Is this what you are talking about?

Yep.

He won’t have any problems handling Wilson after a dirty hit, but whatever.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yep.

He won’t have any problems handling Wilson after a dirty hit, but whatever.

Issue is he’ll rarely be on the ice against that top line I hope.

Kind of the whole Letang shouldn’t have picked his spot. Dumo would 95% of the time be on the ice with Letang and our top two scorers.

 

[Peat]

I neither agree nor disagree with the above, because sometimes you have to invoke Occam's razor and/or resist the urge to pinpoint a grand plan of any kind when there isn't necessarily one that can be adhered to 100% of the time.

If we look at each of these moves in a vacuum, there are a variety of reasons why they were made:

Sutter/Bones: Sutter was Sutter given that he's too soft and you're probably not going to win anything with a player like him, so we get Bones who can still contribute but is more in the mold of a traditional checking center.

Fehr: He was a depth add with the hope he could also move up the lineup in the event of injuries at wing. Not really a notable skater either way in my opinion.

Plots: A shot in the dark at a Euro/Russian coming over and being good in the NHL. No bearing on anything really.

Daley: The Hawks wanted rid of Daley because it was a bad fit, and they had that ridiculous philosophy where they thought it was a good idea to trade for worse players who happened to be locked into a contract. This deal is pretty much the stars aligning for the Penguins, and Daley happened to be a good skating puck mover.

Hags: Perron was lazy here and wasn't solving anything for us, and obviously you're not getting a consistent scorer for a lazy scorer, so you go for a different ingredient. Plus, it's just a swap of struggling players.

I think you have a general idea of what kind of team you want, but there are also a lot of circumstances that dictate trades, and those trades are not always going to be in line with what you're trying to do. Sometimes, often I would argue, you're just trying to make your team better and picking the best of a small number of trade options you have at each juncture. Who knows what JR's general goals were for the team other than making them better.

Excuse the novel. It's a quiet afternoon

Iirc - and my memory is very shaky on these details - Rutherford liked Sutter, just he couldn't afford him (praise the Cap!) and he did specifically say he was looking to get quicker to suit Sully's system. I agree that to a certain extent GMs have limited options and can't always stick to plan, but whatever the reasons, Rutherford's trades never really made us faster outside that little window in time. I guess Bjoogs and McCann for Brassard and Sheahan is a small swing back.

 

[Bingo71]

I get the whole “tough guy” angle but then again I don’t. Like I’ve said before, I don’t understand how having your team’s tough guy goon fight the other team’s tough guy goon after a big hit really accomplishes anything.

It’s the whole “old time hockey” theater thing that really needs to go from the modern game. And most of that falls on the officials. There should be zero tolerance for sucker punches to the back of the head, cross checks high to the head and neck, slew foots, etc. But as we all know, the NHL still clings to the old time antics...

I don’t see any way to keep other teams from cheap shotting the Pens. Going after the goon or agitator that layed the cheap shot won’t stop them or anybody else from doing it. I’ve said for year, if you’re going to play the eye for an eye game, then go after the opposing teams’ stars, not the agitators.

Unless Gud starts breaking orbital bones of guys like Wilson and Dubinsky and McQuaid and putting them out for weeks, he isn’t going to put an end to the garbage.

 

[td_ice]

It is what it is. Reaves was the only guy that could actually intimidate other guys like Wilson. They stupidly tossed him away, now he’s having a career year already with 20 games left still.

Someone mentioned Kassian is a UFA... he can play the game well as a fourth liner. He’s not Reaves, but he’s a legit tough guy. Maybe he could be an option instead of using uh, Garrett Wilson.

I guess if it makes anyone feel better, Gudbranson wrecked Tom Wilson last season.

Kassian would be a good fit here, if they want that toughness up front. He can play the game, skates well, and can be tough when the situation calls for it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Issue is he’ll rarely be on the ice against that top line I hope.

Kind of the whole Letang shouldn’t have picked his spot. Dumo would 95% of the time be on the ice with Letang and our top two scorers.

Best I can say is Wilson won’t be able to skate around all game with his fake tough guy smirk against the Pens, knowing he won’t have to answer the bell agt a legit heavy weight.

Still think ZAR would light Wilson up in a fight, he throws cinder blocks. It’s the one thing I’ve always liked about him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Best I can say is Wilson won’t be able to skate around all game with his fake tough guy smirk against the Pens, knowing he won’t have to answer the bell agt a legit heavy weight.

Still think ZAR would light Wilson up in a fight, he throws cinder blocks. It’s the one thing I’ve always liked about him.

I honestly don’t think the runs Wilson has taken against us will change at all. They certainly didn’t with Reaves.

 

[Turin]

Go back and re-watch 2016 and 2017, the Pens bullied Wilson more than he bullied anybody and all they had was Geno, Cole and Kunitz to do it. He was a complete non factor besides hurting Sheary a bit. If anything that suspension last season helped the Caps.

 

[Peat]

I honestly don’t think the runs Wilson has taken against us will change at all. They certainly didn’t with Reaves.

They won't change.

But - and maybe I'm hoping here - if the stars can look at Gudbranson and say to themselves "Okay, he'll be answered in kind, lets just win the game" rather than "Raaawr! Kill!" - that's a good thing.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I honestly don’t think the runs Wilson has taken against us will change at all. They certainly didn’t with Reaves.

Wilson never took any bad runs when Reaves was a Pen. I’m sure that would have changed in the playoffs, but there was still value in that.

Wilson certainly won’t stop taking dirty cheapshots now with Gudbranson there. I’m just saying he won’t be able to do it all game long and skate past the Pens bench laughing at them because their toughest guy was like, Kunitz and shit.

Now he will have to answer for those hits. Does it matter? A little I guess... better than nothing.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@Empoleon8771

In Mackey's chat today, he did not say that Gudbranson was a "rental" (as you put it).

 

[Gurglesons]

Wilson never took any bad runs when Reaves was a Pen. I’m sure that would have changed in the playoffs, but there was still value in that.

Wilson certainly won’t stop taking dirty cheapshots now with Gudbranson there. I’m just saying he won’t be able to do it all game long and skate past the Pens bench laughing at them because their toughest guy was like, Kunitz and ****.

I’ve gone from miserable to curious what Gudbranson can bring. I honestly could see him being a Cole like presence with Pettersson and forcing the Penguins forwards to play a tighter game. Will be interesting. Still hate the deal.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I’ve gone from miserable to curious what Gudbranson can bring. I honestly could see him being a Cole like presence with Pettersson and forcing the Penguins forwards to play a tighter game. Will be interesting. Still hate the deal.

I was okay with the deal when I thought Gudbranson was on an expiring contract. . .

 

[Gurglesons]

I was okay with the deal when I thought Gudbranson was on an expiring contract. . .

I might prefer Gudbranson’s contract over JJ’s lol

 

[Peat]

I’ve gone from miserable to curious what Gudbranson can bring. I honestly could see him being a Cole like presence with Pettersson and forcing the Penguins forwards to play a tighter game. Will be interesting. Still hate the deal.

If he can play like Pettersson's quotes on him, we'll be laughing

Very telling how Gudbranson referenced the puck support in his first chat with the press here. I feel like if they play tight around him, don't overexpose his puck movement, maybe he'll be okay here.

 

[Gurglesons]

If he can play like Pettersson's quotes on him, we'll be laughing

Very telling how Gudbranson referenced the puck support in his first chat with the press here. I feel like if they play tight around him, don't overexpose his puck movement, maybe he'll be okay here.

I honestly think a D core of..

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson - Gudbranson

Is actually pretty solid tbh.

The issue is we will likely see..

Dumo - Letang
Johnson - Schultz
Maatta - Gudbranson

 

[Pancakes]

We never needed enforcers to begin with. We won two cups on speed and skill and never should have gotten away from that. JR during that two year run never would have acquired the likes of Gudbranson, Oleksiak, Bjugstad, etc. It was all about speed and skill.