The Erik "Gudzilla" Gudbranson Thread

[Randy Butternubs]

Using Capfriendly, sorting active defensemen by descending cap hit, EG is #91 @ 4M, JJ is #103 @ 3.25M. With 31 teams, EG is in the #3 bucket and JJ in a #4 bucket. Yes, it is skewed by ELCs and RFAs, but that only makes what EG and JJ earn worse in comparison.

For the Pens, Letang in the #1 bucket (range of 9M - 5.5M), Schultz is #1/#2 (5.5-4.65M), Dumo/Maatta/EG #3 (4.625-3.875), JJ #4 (3.85-2.5). At #186 is 925k, mostly RFA Ds. We have been complaining about how expensive the D is and how they are aren't playing to their pay, I think this simple exercise shows that. Everyone is market rate or above. The Pens only have Riikola, Pettersson, Wideman and Trotman who are relatively cheap (< 1M) and only Pettersson is really cheap compared to his performance and is a regular in the D rotation. Pens need to get better at incorporating cheap D to balance out the glut of middle pair D that have been overpaid for their performance and stop paying market rate for RFAs and UFAs.

I was curious about using Cap Hit %:

Letang is a number 1
Schultz a 2
Dumoulin, Maatta, Gudbranson are 3s [Gudbranson barely)
Johnson is a 4

Results were the same.

 

[Shady Machine]

I will chime in and say that if you listen to Spittin Chiclets, a lot of the players that come on that podcast fully admit that having a tough guy (Reaves, Wilson, Gud) does deter certain things. Obviously nobody is 100% safe, but if you think that wondering if you are going to get your ass beat/run through the boards (getting injured in retaliation) vs no worries at all doesnt play at least a tiny role, then I think you do not really do not know how most of these guys think. I would rather not have enforcers and be more like Tampa Bay personally, but I find it probable that it does help put the stars minds at ease, knowing that they have someone to stick up for them rather than breaking their own hands trying to do it themselves.

To add I say: If you are a player and get crushed, and then your teammate beats the pulp out of said crusher...I bet it feels a bit better. Lowbumps

Putting minds at ease vs preventing injuries like Letang, Dumo, and Rust are different points altogether.

 

[Fogel]

I was curious about using Cap Hit %:

Letang is a number 1
Schultz a 2
Dumoulin, Maatta, Gudbranson are 3s [Gudbranson barely)
Johnson is a 4

Results were the same.

I think it reinforces the idea (reality?) that the D is expensive because the Pens have not gotten a sweetheart D or competent D on ELC or RFA contracts and have given market rate to all RFAs and UFAs.

 

[Shady Machine]

MP is actually second in rookie scoring for a D last time I checked.

He's currently 3rd with Dahlin at 37, Heiskanen at 27, and Petterson at 19. While certainly good that's he's 3rd, there isn't much competition to be honest.

 

[Multigrain]

When someone said this player projects worse than Ceci wonder why he didn't just go after Ceci as a rental? He would have had Wideman and Ceci who are both going to be FA and then he could have rebooted next season or kept them? Have to say I get the Wideman move but don't get this one at all. Hope he has a decent game if he doesn't he better go into hiding.

 

[Multigrain]

I think every D-man on the roster has to be able to make a pass and support the rush. The days of 1 offensive d-man and 1 "stay-at-home" d-man are over. Teams are full 5 man units now.

It'd be so easy to shut down a team if they had a pairing of one guy that can make a pass or rush the puck and one guy that absolutely cannot.. just force the puck to the guy that can't and close him off and make him to do something stupid.

Thats why they should have gone after a puck moving defenseman but JR felt he needed the size not sure if he will play sheltered minutes but for 4 million he has to play a significant amount.

 

[LittleSpoon]

Putting minds at ease vs preventing injuries like Letang, Dumo, and Rust are different points altogether.

Like i said also though, there is a level of deterrent. You don't find it odd that we are one of the most injured teams in the league year after year? However, the capitals stay mostly in tact as do quite a few other teams that have a bit more grit to them. I guess the correlation lacks any meaning though.

 

[Jacob]

If it was that easy, those guys would have been phased out of the NHL already and any team with a defenseman like that would struggle to do anything in the playoffs.

I think they mostly have been and they are.

Ian Cole is the new-style of "stay at home" d-man, and he doesn't stay at home at all. He supports the rush, can actually pass the puck himself, pinches, will jump into holes in the offensive zone, occasionally might even skate the puck out of danger. He's not an offensive d-man and he doesn't put up a lot of points but he's as active offensively as is required.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Here's the thing: does JR even place that much importance in an actual identity?
To him, the identity is not so much about defining a style of play and finding the right fits. The only identity he seems to embrace is nothing more than one in which players can turn their careers around. That's how it's defined from many outside the team itself, even Gudbranson himself said it. It's a philosophy built on hope being the plan. That seems like pretty much the extent to which he defines or values an actual identity. So getting bigger and/or tougher is not really a deviation from any perceived identity in JR's eyes.

And lets be honest, the identity of this team formed in the '16 run that we all praise and want right now was never really sustainable. That identity encompassed much more than adopting speed and quick transition. There was a culture change like we haven't seen in years uprooting the veteran entitlement surrounding the core who were suddenly being challenged by prospects. Playing time was based on merit instead of status. Players brought in via trade or from the minors never felt the pressure to produce but rather "just play" to their strengths. A complete buy-in from everyone. That was our identity and that band broke up. What we have seen since is a collection of individuals preoccupied with playing for their next contracts or desperate to rediscover their lost scoring touch.

JR was never brought in to be a man with a plan. It was meant to be for a short period of time, helping transition the 18 AGMs into the job and in the meantime, make the kind of decisions Shero was unwilling to make. Just tinker here and there. He did that...and continues to do what he's always done to this day. We were all just very fortunate there were a couple of forced detours along the road in '16 and '17.

I think this is a lot of opinion and not much fact base. I completely disagree with all of it. JR was brought in to make changes to a group that was old and slow around the core. I believe he had a plan to make the team faster and younger around the core while also adding players that make the team hard to play against like Hornqvist. So while it was not just based on speed but also hard to play against.

It is hard to believe someone that turned this team around so fast from being a team that the quote experts said our time has past as legit contenders to back to back Cup Champs has to have these arm chair critics. Honestly he has done a brilliant job. Even this year the trades are a big net plus. Rutherford took 3 players that are UFA’s after this season and Sprong who isn’t even playing games in the NHL for 26 year old Bjugstad, 22 year old McCann, 22 year old Pettersson, 26 year old Pearson which now is 27 year old Gudbranson. So as far as asset management he has been great.

Even Johnson has done a good job after his first 25 games getting used to his new system and teammates. Since then he is a +10 while playing top 4 minutes. If we didn’t have him with all these injuries this team would be in real trouble. The Johnson-Schultz pairing has played 30+ and 26+ minutes the past two games going against the other teams top players and handled it well. I don’t believe anyone else we have healthy could do that.

So we might complain about to long of a term for Johnson and too much cap hit for Gudbranson but overall JR has given these Pens a tools needed to win Cups and of course it is not going to happen every year. All a GM can do is give your team the tools needed to make a run and JR has done that.

Pettersson for Sprong: big Pens win

McCann and Bjugstad for Brassard and Sheahan: big Pens win

Pearson for Hagelin: Neutral Because Hagelin was terrible for us this year and for the Kings and Pearson was better but not much.

Pearson for Gudbranson: yet to be determined.

Overall these trades made the Pens younger and better. All these wannabe GM’s need to go find another hobby.

We should of kept Reeves. Teams took much less liberties at our players with him on the team. I hope Gudbranson can provide the same. The turning point for the thuggery happened last year when Reeves had the 3 fights and scored a goal. After that our team had very little problems like we have seen the past several games this year.

 

[LittleSpoon]

I think this is a lot of opinion and not much fact base. I completely disagree with all of it. JR was brought in to make changes to a group that was old and slow around the core. I believe he had a plan to make the team faster and younger around the core while also adding players that make the team hard to play against like Hornqvist. So while it was not just based on speed but also hard to play against.

It is hard to believe someone that turned this team around so fast from being a team that the quote experts said our time has past as legit contenders to back to back Cup Champs has to have these arm chair critics. Honestly he has done a brilliant job. Even this year the trades are a big net plus. Rutherford took 3 players that are UFA’s after this season and Sprong who isn’t even playing games in the NHL for 26 year old Bjugstad, 22 year old McCann, 22 year old Pettersson, 26 year old Pearson which now is 27 year old Gudbranson. So as far as asset management he has been great.

Even Johnson has done a good job after his first 25 games getting used to his new system and teammates. Since then he is a +10 while playing top 4 minutes. If we didn’t have him with all these injuries this team would be in real trouble. The Johnson-Schultz pairing has played 30+ and 26+ minutes the past two games going against the other teams top players and handled it well. I don’t believe anyone else we have healthy could do that.

So we might complain about to long of a term for Johnson and too much cap hit for Gudbranson but overall JR has given these Pens a tools needed to win Cups and of course it is not going to happen every year. All a GM can do is give your team the tools needed to make a run and JR has done that.

Pettersson for Sprong: big Pens win

McCann and Bjugstad for Brassard and Sheahan: big Pens win

Pearson for Hagelin: Neutral Because Hagelin was terrible for us this year and for the Kings and Pearson was better but not much.

Pearson for Gudbranson: yet to be determined.

Overall these trades made the Pens younger and better. All these wannabe GM’s need to go find another hobby.

We should of kept Reeves. Teams took much less liberties at our players with him on the team. I hope Gudbranson can provide the same. The turning point for the thuggery happened last year when Reeves had the 3 fights and scored a goal. After that our team had very little problems like we have seen the past several games this year.

Figured I would give you a written like too... Could not agree more on all points.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Not everyone NEEDS to be a good offensive player, but it's preferable you have more than 2 guys on the blueline that are. MP is average offensively and has shown some potential, but let's not jump the gun here. He's primarily a defensive D that can skate and move the puck fairly well for a guy his size. He's a lesser Dumo with a better shot and slightly better offensive instincts in the zone.

To your 2nd paragraph, please explain how added toughness helps our players not drop like flies. Thanks!

Go back and watch how teams took liberties to our best players before Reaves and then after he arrived. It was night and day. Look at this year how teams treat our players because they have no fear of consequences. The garage league officials are not going to do anything about the thugs. So you get Crosby getting jumped, Letsng getting jumped, no player to answer to that. I don’t want a team full of goons but you do need someone that can stand up to the Wilson’s of the world. You can agree to disagree but you would be wrong.

Plus I never jumped the gun on Pettersson. What did I write that makes you think I did that. I said as long as your defensive defenseman is paired with someone like Letang or Schultz they form good pairings. I said the Dumoulin-Letang and Johnson-Schultz pairings work well. Then I said hopefully Pettersson can provide enough offense to work with Gudbranson and I pointed out how he seemed to work well with Johnson for several games. Definitely not proven in any case but I think he is the best option for Gudbranson we have on our team at this point. Best offensively for LD’s. Those top 4 will get the majority of the minutes anyways.

 

[Riptide]

Using Capfriendly, sorting active defensemen by descending cap hit, EG is #91 @ 4M, JJ is #103 @ 3.25M. With 31 teams, EG is in the #3 bucket and JJ in a #4 bucket. Yes, it is skewed by ELCs and RFAs, but that only makes what EG and JJ earn worse in comparison.

For the Pens, Letang in the #1 bucket (range of 9M - 5.5M), Schultz is #1/#2 (5.5-4.65M), Dumo/Maatta/EG #3 (4.625-3.875), JJ #4 (3.85-2.5). At #186 is 925k, mostly RFA Ds. We have been complaining about how expensive the D is and how they are aren't playing to their pay, I think this simple exercise shows that. Everyone is market rate or above. The Pens only have Riikola, Pettersson, Wideman and Trotman who are relatively cheap (< 1M) and only Pettersson is really cheap compared to his performance and is a regular in the D rotation. Pens need to get better at incorporating cheap D to balance out the glut of middle pair D that have been overpaid for their performance and stop paying market rate for RFAs and UFAs.

Those ranges are not even close to being indicative of what a player's ability is, or what a player is getting paid in terms of their on ice impact. Ekholm for example is a 2/3D and is getting paid like a 4/5D. Phaneuf on the other hand is getting paid like a 1D and is performing like a 3-5D (I haven't watched him recently). So the idea that hey there's 31 teams in the league, and thus because player A is getting paid in #91 range and player B is in the #103 range is idiotic in the extreme. It's no different then calling Malkin a #2C because he doesn't play on the top line.

No you nailed it on the head with the term "simple", as in it's a simple exercise where there's little correlational between how a D is paid and how a D can perform on the ice in relation to his peers. And more importantly why a D was paid what they were paid. UFA vs RFA vs ELC plays a MASSIVE difference in what a blueliner is going to earn on a contract. As does their production. It's why Schultz is getting 5.5m and Dumoulin is getting 4.1m. It's why Morrissey gets 3.15m and Trouba gets 5.5m.

Bottom line, is that you cannot say that a D who falls into the payscale range of the 63-94 highest paid player is "paid like a #3D" because that's not how this works, and is idiotic in the extreme. And there's countless examples of that - of which Gudbranson is a perfect example as to why that's idiotic.

I was curious about using Cap Hit %:

Letang is a number 1
Schultz a 2
Dumoulin, Maatta, Gudbranson are 3s [Gudbranson barely)
Johnson is a 4

Results were the same.

And I'll say the same thing I said to Fogel. This is wrong because it doesn't take into account why player's are paid what they're paid. Morressey / Ekholm / Mountour are not getting paid less than Maatta or Johnson because "that's where they falls into things", they're getting paid what they're getting because that's the leverage that management has over them as RFAs. It's the same reason why Staal is getting 5.7m and Phaneuf is getting 7m - that was the leverage they had over management at the time they signed their contracts.

 

[Bingo71]

Go back and watch how teams took liberties to our best players before Reaves and then after he arrived. It was night and day. Look at this year how teams treat our players because they have no fear of consequences. The garage league officials are not going to do anything about the thugs. So you get Crosby getting jumped, Letsng getting jumped, no player to answer to that. I don’t want a team full of goons but you do need someone that can stand up to the Wilson’s of the world. You can agree to disagree but you would be wrong.

Plus I never jumped the gun on Pettersson. What did I write that makes you think I did that. I said as long as your defensive defenseman is paired with someone like Letang or Schultz they form good pairings. I said the Dumoulin-Letang and Johnson-Schultz pairings work well. Then I said hopefully Pettersson can provide enough offense to work with Gudbranson and I pointed out how he seemed to work well with Johnson for several games. Definitely not proven in any case but I think he is the best option for Gudbranson we have on our team at this point. Best offensively for LD’s. Those top 4 will get the majority of the minutes anyways.

I kind of agree but kind of disagree.

The Tom Wilson’s of the world aren’t “afraid” of anybody. Wilson can put you into the 3rd row with a hit and then beat the shit out of your “enforcer” coming to “make him pay”.

Teams like the Caps that have big forwards like Wilson, Ovechkin, and Oshie INITIATE the physical play and straight up wreck players in the process sometimes. Once that occurs, all you are doing it trying to get your pound of flesh by having some goon fight their goon as if that “settles” it.

Gudbranson isn’t going to stop Wilson from being Wilson, I can guarantee that...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think they mostly have been and they are.

Ian Cole is the new-style of "stay at home" d-man, and he doesn't stay at home at all. He supports the rush, can actually pass the puck himself, pinches, will jump into holes in the offensive zone, occasionally might even skate the puck out of danger. He's not an offensive d-man and he doesn't put up a lot of points but he's as active offensively as is required.

The Sharks made the cup finals in 2016 with Polak as their bottom pair RD. The Predators made the cup finals in 2017 with Irwin and Weber as their bottom pair. The Knights made the cup finals in 2018 with McNabb-Engelland as their 2nd pair (both of which are those kind of defensemen) and Sbisa playing regular minutes. The Capitals won the cup last year with Orpik playing on their bottom pair.

No, teams with defensemen like Gudbranson on their team do not struggle to win. The Penguins have won without defensemen like Gudbranson, you can't extrapolate what the Penguins have done to what everyone else has done.

 

[Riptide]

When someone said this player projects worse than Ceci wonder why he didn't just go after Ceci as a rental? He would have had Wideman and Ceci who are both going to be FA and then he could have rebooted next season or kept them? Have to say I get the Wideman move but don't get this one at all. Hope he has a decent game if he doesn't he better go into hiding.

Because A) Ceci is going to be a RFA not a UFA and B) because of Ceci being a pending RFA and being 25 he was going to be a lot more expensive then Gudbranson (asset wise) to acquire.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Those ranges are not even close to being indicative of what a player's ability is, or what a player is getting paid in terms of their on ice impact. Ekholm for example is a 2/3D and is getting paid like a 4/5D. Phaneuf on the other hand is getting paid like a 1D and is performing like a 3-5D (I haven't watched him recently). So the idea that hey there's 31 teams in the league, and thus because player A is getting paid in #91 range and player B is in the #103 range is idiotic in the extreme. It's no different then calling Malkin a #2C because he doesn't play on the top line.

No you nailed it on the head with the term "simple", as in it's a simple exercise where there's little correlational between how a D is paid and how a D can perform on the ice in relation to his peers. And more importantly why a D was paid what they were paid. UFA vs RFA vs ELC plays a MASSIVE difference in what a blueliner is going to earn on a contract. As does their production. It's why Schultz is getting 5.5m and Dumoulin is getting 4.1m. It's why Morrissey gets 3.15m and Trouba gets 5.5m.

Bottom line, is that you cannot say that a D who falls into the payscale range of the 63-94 highest paid player is "paid like a #3D" because that's not how this works, and is idiotic in the extreme. And there's countless examples of that - of which Gudbranson is a perfect example as to why that's idiotic.



And I'll say the same thing I said to Fogel. This is wrong because it doesn't take into account why player's are paid what they're paid. Morressey / Ekholm / Mountour are not getting paid less than Maatta or Johnson because "that's where they falls into things", they're getting paid what they're getting because that's the leverage that management has over them as RFAs. It's the same reason why Staal is getting 5.7m and Phaneuf is getting 7m - that was the leverage they had over management at the time they signed their contracts.

All that is true but I think misses the point that he was making. That being that they are being overpaid, but not by a huge amount given the roles that they are being asked to play.

And it is a red herring.

The question is much less the cost and much more whether they can even play the assigned roles competently. If they could be competent third pairing defensemen, not great, simply average, I think that people might not be so up in arms. The evidence, at least to this point although JJ has looked better over the last month or so, is that they can not even do that though.

 

[Icarium]

Even Johnson has done a good job after his first 25 games getting used to his new system and teammates. Since then he is a +10 while playing top 4 minutes. If we didn’t have him with all these injuries this team would be in real trouble. The Johnson-Schultz pairing has played 30+ and 26+ minutes the past two games going against the other teams top players and handled it well. I don’t believe anyone else we have healthy could do that.

So we might complain about to long of a term for Johnson and too much cap hit for Gudbranson but overall JR has given these Pens a tools needed to win Cups and of course it is not going to happen every year. All a GM can do is give your team the tools needed to make a run and JR has done that.

So JJ plays a handful of decent games and suddenly he is the savior? One of these games was also outside in terrible conditions that are perfect for big dumb defencemen like him. We were dismantled by the Sharks with JJ looking like a joke a mere week ago.

Rutherford took 3 players that are UFA’s after this season and Sprong who isn’t even playing games in the NHL for 26 year old Bjugstad, 22 year old McCann, 22 year old Pettersson, 26 year old Pearson which now is 27 year old Gudbranson. So as far as asset management he has been great.

You do remember that he also gave up a bunch of pics for Bjugstad and McCann, right? Bjugstad is overpaid and can't score. Gudbranson is hilariously overpaid and we gave up our best prospect for Pettersson.

Go back and watch how teams took liberties to our best players before Reaves and then after he arrived. It was night and day.

No, it wasn't. And we actually had relatively few injuries this season prior to this Saturday. Last but not least we won two Cups without Reaves and the likes, yet people act as if we can't do anything without enforcers. It's absurd.

 

[Peat]

The Sharks made the cup finals in 2016 with Polak as their bottom pair RD. The Predators made the cup finals in 2017 with Irwin and Weber as their bottom pair. The Knights made the cup finals in 2018 with McNabb-Engelland as their 2nd pair (both of which are those kind of defensemen) and Sbisa playing regular minutes. The Capitals won the cup last year with Orpik playing on their bottom pair.

No, teams with defensemen like Gudbranson on their team do not struggle to win. The Penguins have won without defensemen like Gudbranson, you can't extrapolate what the Penguins have done to what everyone else has done.

One guy like that on your third pairing can be lived with. More than that and you start to see struggles (Flower stood on his head for Vegas' run). Not to mention these guys are more and more being 3rd pairing guys and not higher.

They're not dead yet, but they are getting left behind.

I think this is a lot of opinion and not much fact base. I completely disagree with all of it. JR was brought in to make changes to a group that was old and slow around the core. I believe he had a plan to make the team faster and younger around the core while also adding players that make the team hard to play against like Hornqvist. So while it was not just based on speed but also hard to play against.

I'm looking at the trades and signings he made in his first season and I'm struggling to believe that was originally the plan. Ditto tbh his trades in 2015 pre-Sully - Bonino, Fehr and Plotnikov is not a team looking to get quicker.

Its only with Sully he decided to embrace speed by getting Daley and Hagelin and since then, he's taken it for granted.

 

[Empoleon8771]

One guy like that on your third pairing can be lived with. More than that and you start to see struggles (Flower stood on his head for Vegas' run). Not to mention these guys are more and more being 3rd pairing guys and not higher.

They're not dead yet, but they are getting left behind.

I feel like Gudbranson would be the same. Either way, I just disagree with people when they say that physical DFDs are dying in today's NHL and teams don't succeed with these kind of guys. Guys like Gill and Scuderi are being phased out, but I don't think they're getting phased out because they're physical DFD. I think they're getting phased out because they're bad, and they're no longer positives for their team. I think a bad puck moving, physical DFD can easily survive in the NHL, they just need to be playing well.

Engelland is a great example of this. He has had horrid possession stats in literally every season he has been in the NHL, yet he's still in the NHL in a top-4 role and is only a -6 over his entire career. A physical DFD can easily have success for a long time in the NHL, the guys that get phased out can't be successful at the NHL level anymore. I call that being "bad", but I guess other people may find more specific reasons for it. A lack of puck moving talent or bad skating may be easy guesses to see, but teams happily will keep bad puck moving or bad skating DFD as long as they're good at not getting scored on.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I kind of agree but kind of disagree.

The Tom Wilson’s of the world aren’t “afraid” of anybody. Wilson can put you into the 3rd row with a hit and then beat the **** out of your “enforcer” coming to “make him pay”.

Teams like the Caps that have big forwards like Wilson, Ovechkin, and Oshie INITIATE the physical play and straight up wreck players in the process sometimes. Once that occurs, all you are doing it trying to get your pound of flesh by having some goon fight their goon as if that “settles” it.

Gudbranson isn’t going to stop Wilson from being Wilson, I can guarantee that...

Reaves has made Wilson his bitch for years. Wilson isn’t afraid of anyone I’d imagine, but he’s legit wary of Reaves. Almost all of their encounters end with Wilson getting abused by Reaves.

The only time I didn’t see Wilson running around on the Pens was when he looked across the bench and saw Reaves. He’s gone now though so...

A guy like Gudbranson can go toe to toe with Wilson, but Wilson isn’t going to worry about him. There is only one Reaves, he was unique and that’s why JR had to pay for him.

If Gudbranson made like 900k I wouldn’t mind him being around as a 7 to be put in agt more physical teams, but he makes four times that amount and it’s silly, really.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I remember quite succintly that Reaves didn't curb all that much except the non-tough guys who knew they could get away with stuff before wouldn't act as tough.
The TW's and Watson's, etc. don't care if a Reaves is in the lineup.
McQuaid doesn't think twice about the healthy shove he gave to Rust into the boards the other night if a EG or Reaver is in the lineup.

In terms of making your teammates and especially skill guys who don't fight feel a foot taller, i certainly agree with that.

 

[Shady Machine]

Go back and watch how teams took liberties to our best players before Reaves and then after he arrived. It was night and day. Look at this year how teams treat our players because they have no fear of consequences. The garage league officials are not going to do anything about the thugs. So you get Crosby getting jumped, Letsng getting jumped, no player to answer to that. I don’t want a team full of goons but you do need someone that can stand up to the Wilson’s of the world. You can agree to disagree but you would be wrong.

Plus I never jumped the gun on Pettersson. What did I write that makes you think I did that. I said as long as your defensive defenseman is paired with someone like Letang or Schultz they form good pairings. I said the Dumoulin-Letang and Johnson-Schultz pairings work well. Then I said hopefully Pettersson can provide enough offense to work with Gudbranson and I pointed out how he seemed to work well with Johnson for several games. Definitely not proven in any case but I think he is the best option for Gudbranson we have on our team at this point. Best offensively for LD’s. Those top 4 will get the majority of the minutes anyways.

I didn't see any demonstrable difference in the players getting "jumped" or injured with/without Reaves. Just saying it doesn't make it true, just like me saying it didn't happen doesn't make it true. It really wasn't a large enough sample size to tell one way or the other even if you did provide data, which you haven't.

As for Pettersson, fair enough. Agree he's the best fit for Gudbranson for now. My point was I'd prefer to not have Gudbranson at all and pair MP with Schultz.

 

[Shady Machine]

Reaves has made Wilson his ***** for years. Wilson isn’t afraid of anyone I’d imagine, but he’s legit wary of Reaves. Almost all of their encounters end with Wilson getting abused by Reaves.

The only time I didn’t see Wilson running around on the Pens was when he looked across the bench and saw Reaves. He’s gone now though so...

A guy like Gudbranson can go toe to toe with Wilson, but Wilson isn’t going to worry about him. There is only one Reaves, he was unique and that’s why JR had to pay for him.

If Gudbranson made like 900k I wouldn’t mind him being around as a 7 to be put in agt more physical teams, but he makes four times that amount and it’s silly, really.

Reaves is the only nuclear option vs Wilson you can have if that's your priority. I was against that trade and philosophy, but if you really felt strongly, then keep the guy and play him. Instead, JR paid out the nose for the guy, Sully didn't play him, they dumped him and then JR cycled through Big Rig and now Gudbranson and got worse from a cap standpoint twice. It's maddening.

 

[66-30-33]

Reaves is the only nuclear option vs Wilson you can have if that's your priority. I was against that trade and philosophy, but if you really felt strongly, then keep the guy and play him. Instead, JR paid out the nose for the guy, Sully didn't play him, they dumped him and then JR cycled through Big Rig and now Gudbranson and got worse from a cap standpoint twice. It's maddening.

Gud wont play so we will trade him for Lucic.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So JJ plays a handful of decent games and suddenly he is the savior? One of these games was also outside in terrible conditions that are perfect for big dumb defencemen like him. We were dismantled by the Sharks with JJ looking like a joke a mere week ago.



You do remember that he also gave up a bunch of pics for Bjugstad and McCann, right? Bjugstad is overpaid and can't score. Gudbranson is hilariously overpaid and we gave up our best prospect for Pettersson.



No, it wasn't. And we actually had relatively few injuries this season prior to this Saturday. Last but not least we won two Cups without Reaves and the likes, yet people act as if we can't do anything without enforcers. It's absurd.

You conveniently left out McCann other than mentioning that he was part of the trade. Somehow people keep acting like Bjudgstad was the centerpiece of that trade. He wasn't. McCann was and is looking more and more like the real deal, much more than Sprong ever did.