Salary Cap: The Endless Speculation Edition

[EightyOne]

Right. Not wanting to move. Not wanting to accept a different role on another team. Not wanting to mess with tax stuff. Probably all higher than "SC or Bust!"

 

[ColePens]

As pretty much everyone has said - athletes are really getting smart and not being stupid w/ taking paycuts to "try and win the Cup". That's a silly thing because as soon as the player is worthless, they'll be bought out or moved anyway. I'm in full favor of players going for the most money or the best taxed states. So let's toss that one out the window.

Now Williams could be a guy who would pick/choose where he wants to go for that reason and i would kill to have him over ZAR in the lineup.

 

[Shady Machine]

Right. Not wanting to move. Not wanting to accept a different role on another team. Not wanting to mess with tax stuff. Probably all higher than "SC or Bust!"

Yeah but that doesn't mean a chance at contending for a Cup isn't high on their list. The only "Cup or bust" out there are dudes that are late in their career and want a few last kicks at the can.

See Cullen for example. You think that dude couldn't have made more than $1MM or whatever after his resurgent year in Pittsburgh in 2016?

Anyway, totally agree that Hall isn't going Cup or bust. The other thing to keep in mind is there is so much parity in the NHL today, that "Cup or bust" could be any one of 20 teams anyway.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I really don't think "Cup or Bust" is that prevalent with the stars, but more with the role guys like Shady suggests. Hell, one of the most prominent exceptions to that rule is Geno, who definitely took a paycut when he could have asked for Ovechkin money so he could stay in Pittsburgh with Sid and build a contender, and that doesn't mean anything. Or at the very least, it does nothing to stop the amount of yinzers crapping on the man.

 

[EightyOne]

Cullen could have gotten more.

But he's also not a player like Hall lol lol we're really talking about high skill game breakers leaving like 3+mil on the table to sign a contract.

So not comparable.

Geno also doesn't count because he stayed with the team that drafted him. It's not the same as regular UFA.

 

[Shady Machine]

Cullen could have gotten more.

But he's also not a player like Hall lol lol we're really talking about high skill game breakers leaving like 3+mil on the table to sign a contract.

So not comparable.

Geno also doesn't count because he stayed with the team that drafted him. It's not the same as regular UFA.

Not to get too technical, but since you double lol'd at me:

No player is taking a discount for a chance at a cup.

They don't care about winning that **** as much as we think.

I get it was in the context of Hall, but you still said "No player".

 

[EightyOne]

Not to get too technical, but since you double lol'd at me:



I get it was in the context of Hall, but you still said "No player".

By unanimous mod vote, @Shady Machine has been banned for 90 days for the following TOS violation:

Extreme pedantry on an internet message board

 

[Peat]

By unanimous mod vote, @Shady Machine has been banned for 90 days for the following TOS violation:

Extreme pedantry on an internet message board

How comes I'm allowed to post here at all then?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

On the other hand, Hall's already made a tonne of money playing the game. Does he care about winning or getting paid an extra $2 million per year? He's talked about how he wants to win because he's always been on teams missing the playoffs, so if that's true at all he might be willing to take a slight discount to sign with a club he feels gives him a good chance to win the Cup.

He really hasn't. 6M for what he brings is a steal. This is his last chance to cash in and he should do it. He'll get 11M+ from someone.

 

[JTG]

We need to find a way to get Lafferty back up here.

 

[Gurglesons]

We need to find a way to get Lafferty back up here.

Sid is hurt so. You get your wish.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

As pretty much everyone has said - athletes are really getting smart and not being stupid w/ taking paycuts to "try and win the Cup". That's a silly thing because as soon as the player is worthless, they'll be bought out or moved anyway. I'm in full favor of players going for the most money or the best taxed states. So let's toss that one out the window.

Now Williams could be a guy who would pick/choose where he wants to go for that reason and i would kill to have him over ZAR in the lineup.

It’s a fine line. And I never blame a player for getting their worth. One of my favorite role players this team has ever had was Talbot, I didn’t like he signed with the evil orange. But he was never getting that contract from Pittsburgh. So I don’t hate on athletes getting their money. And he maybe a poor example for my point, but any player that likes their situation that’ll shave off a tiny bit of money to keep the team together endears themselves forever with fans. So it’s a fan vs the business thing. Again don’t hate on someone going after all their available worth, but I do love it when a player will try to keep the team together.

 

[SEALBound]

How comes I'm allowed to post here at all then?

You're our Morty.

 

[HandshakeLine]

How comes I'm allowed to post here at all then?

I get around the posting this by having someone else type all my dictated posts, this making them the poster and not me. I’m also for taxes reasons now an LLC and based out of Delaware.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Tough part atm is theres no names solidly out there right now other than Puljuravi. Billy G probably wants to make changes but you have no clue who's his non-touchables atm.

As for Hall, Sid likes 'em. Won a World Championship with him on his wing and Hall comes to NS to train with him.
If there was any shot at landing Hall, the core here would be all for it.

Parise 2.0 hahahat

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I get around the posting this by having someone else type all my dictated posts, this making them the poster and not me. I’m also for taxes reasons now an LLC and based out of Delaware.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We had 2 sign, make that 3 sign below what they could have left for higher paydays.

Fleury, Kunitz and Hornqvist.

There are more out there if you look. Yeah, some of it is about being comfortable, and all that, but when you know your chances are all the above it makes it a little easier.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I personally think every guy you just listed got right at market value at the time. Some would even say, considering the trade clauses, that Horns was a bit above.

 

[Peat]

I personally think every guy you just listed got right at market value at the time. Some would even say, considering the trade clauses, that Horns was a bit above.

Pedantry alert maybe, but getting market value and being able to get a better payday elsewhere aren't mutually exclusive. I'd say that given free agency's proud history of mad overpayments, it might in fact go hand in hand.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Serious question: who was the last player to sign at a discount for a chance at the cup?

Sidney Crosby. Evgeni Malkin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Let's draw a distinction between re-signing with a contender and taking a pay cut to join a contender.

Two very different things.

Cullen wasn't technically a re-sign, but c'mahn. For all intents and purposes he was.

 

[wej20]

Let's draw a distinction between re-signing with a contender and taking a pay cut to join a contender.

Two very different things.

Cullen wasn't technically a re-sign, but c'mahn. For all intents and purposes he was.

Yep, don't see any player in their prime years taking a pay-cut to join a contender. Sure, they wont necessarily go to the highest bidder but they're not shaving a couple of million of their cap-hit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What's the difference between leaving a million or two off their AAV or leaving a year or two on the table term-wise?

Still a bunch of money left behind.

Hossa left the Pens to sign basically the same offer on a one-year deal instead of 8 or whatever we offered because he thought that team was his best shot at a Cup. Duchene left many millions on the table, with regard to both term and AAV, in order to go to the Preds. Stamkos could've gotten a max deal in Toronto but they're nowhere near a Cup.

I agree that it's not super common, and it's not like guys are leaving $4 million AAV on the table to play for a Cup, but there are lots of cases where players sacrifice a bunch of money to play for a contender.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hossa also left over a decade ago. The market and the game have changed a lot since then.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hossa also left over a decade ago. The market and the game have changed a lot since then.

It's an example and you (and others) wanted examples. Nobody claimed it was common or anything, but the original point that I took issue with was "nobody does it". There are a bunch of guys who do it, and have done it for years. Again, it's not the norm, but for people to act like it's uncharted territory doesn't make sense to me.

Going back to the original discussion, I think Hall's a guy who is more likely to take a bit off of what he could be making in order to have a good chance at a Cup. Dude's been mired in garbage organizations for years, is getting more and more visibly frustrated at playing for losing clubs who have no shot, and his career earnings thus far are north of $44 million (obviously before taxes). He's not a guy that's really hurting for money, and if he can get a good shot at a Cup making Geno-tier money ($9.5 million-ish) I think he'll absolutely take it over making Panarin or McDavid money for a perennial bottom feeder.

And it's not a case of "Hall's just gotta be better and his teams will be better", I don't think. Dude has had some unreal seasons in recent years and it doesn't matter. Hell, look at McDavid and Draisaitl in Edmonton--two guys who legitimately look like Hall of Famers and guys who will be the best in the world for the next decade. Edmonton's circling the drain more often than not since landing those two, and while they're doing well now, it's the second week of November. I fully expect some kind of collapse.