Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[koteka]

You know, you guys could just admit I was right about Merzlikins all along, or do we have to wait for him to suck again this year? NOT THAT I WANT THAT!!!

I never really thought Elvis was the answer at goalie. I never really thought Korpi was the answer at goalie. I didn’t think extending Bob made sense given what he wanted, and I thought Florida way overpaid. I don’t think Tarasov is the answer. So maybe that is an admission you were right about Elvis, but I also think you were wrong about Korpi, and I think Ottawa might regret signing him for 5 years. I wanted to sign Freddie Anderson. Earlier this year I was talking up Aiden Hill, but then he won a Cup so he now is too expensive and Vegas has to keep him. Until we get a real guy who shows he is a real guy (like Bob did 2 contracts ago) you need to be very careful with goalies and term. I want to draft a highly regarded goalie sometime so we have him under team control for a long time. I might have done that this year with Hrabal in the 2nd round.

 

[thebus88]

There are other players you'd like off the team to help them win too but you don't beat on them and their skillset like you do Elvis. Plain and simple.

I want every player on this team to be better and win too but I don't act like I'm always right when speaking about players. Every person here here knows Elvis was bad last season. Lots of players were bad last season. I want him to succeed this season. If he struggles again, I'm not going to revel in his failure and tell everyone "I told you so" like you will.

He goes into a media interview and talks like he has a new mindset and is striving hard to have a much better year and your response is sarcastically talking about "issues" and being "lucky" and that he is "terrible." I don't think you've ever once admitted that actually earned an opportunity to be drafted and come to the NHL and has had some success regardless if you think it is luck or not.

People would most likely be more willing to accept your criticism of his failures if you were to actually willing recognizes his successes. I know I might.

The “starting goalie” position is the most important position on the team and is why it’s looked at with extra scrutiny. It’s the same reason I was as vocal about my “disdain” of Bobrovsky, though to be clear it’s a disservice to Bob to compare him to Elvis. While I DID have issues with Bobrovsky at certain times when the pressure was ramped up, playoffs or not, he’s on a completely different level than Elvis as a goalie.

My entire point I’m attempting to make about Elvis, is that it’s not about just last year, or the year before when he was “bad”. He’s the SAME goalie. The problem is Elvis was the guy who brought up “1st year Elvis”, as THIS Elvis is essentially at the crux of the issue and debate we continue to have involving him.

He’s really not saying ANYTHING of substance, anything unique to any other pro athlete interview after a tough year, or saying anything about a new “mindset”, he’s just saying he’s going back to “1st year Elvis”, BUT HE WAS NOT GOOD the 1st year. That’s my point. He hasn’t really had any “success”, he was pretty clearly “handed” a contract he doesn’t deserve and a role he can’t handle because of the injury history of Korpisalo.

The idea is that he couldn’t NOT be good because he had all those shutouts that 1st year, which the last few years I think have proven to be untrue. The amount of shutouts he had was lucky, unsustainable, and that’s the only thing people gave as a reason he should be looked at as “good”. His “ceiling”, as if he could get a shutout on any given night. The debate on who to start in the playoffs that year was very lively. Torts made the correct decision and choose Korpisalo, and there hasn’t been a correct decision regarding the goalies since.

 

[thebus88]

I never really thought Elvis was the answer at goalie. I never really thought Korpi was the answer at goalie. I didn’t think extending Bob made sense given what he wanted, and I thought Florida way overpaid. I don’t think Tarasov is the answer. So maybe that is an admission you were right about Elvis, but I also think you were wrong about Korpi, and I think Ottawa might regret signing him for 5 years. I wanted to sign Freddie Anderson. Earlier this year I was talking up Aiden Hill, but then he won a Cup so he now is too expensive and Vegas has to keep him. Until we get a real guy who shows he is a real guy (like Bob did 2 contracts ago) you need to be very careful with goalies and term. I want to draft a highly regarded goalie sometime so we have him under team control for a long time. I might have done that this year with Hrabal in the 2nd round.

While I can’t hate on anything you say, and Korpisalo’s injury issues/history is something I can’t really defend on his behalf and more than likely impacted decisions, the only thing I contest is that Korpisalo was NEVER given a TRUE chance to prove anything over an EXTENDED period. And when he was chosen as the “starter” and given any sort of confidence or “leash” from the team, like recently in the playoffs for the CBJ, he performed more than adequately.

If given the same time period to prove whatever Elvis has apparently proven the last few years, Korpisalo would have earned the $4-5 million contract they both now have.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The “starting goalie” position is the most important position on the team and is why it’s looked at with extra scrutiny. It’s the same reason I was as vocal about my “disdain” of Bobrovsky, though to be clear it’s a disservice to Bob to compare him to Elvis. While I DID have issues with Bobrovsky at certain times when the pressure was ramped up, playoffs or not, he’s on a completely different level than Elvis as a goalie.

My entire point I’m attempting to make about Elvis, is that it’s not about just last year, or the year before when he was “bad”. He’s the SAME goalie. The problem is Elvis was the guy who brought up “1st year Elvis”, as THIS Elvis is essentially at the crux of the issue and debate we continue to have involving him.

He’s really not saying ANYTHING of substance, anything unique to any other pro athlete interview after a tough year, or saying anything about a new “mindset”, he’s just saying he’s going back to “1st year Elvis”, BUT HE WAS NOT GOOD the 1st year. That’s my point. He hasn’t really had any “success”, he was pretty clearly “handed” a contract he doesn’t deserve and a role he can’t handle because of the injury history of Korpisalo.

The idea is that he couldn’t NOT be good because he had all those shutouts that 1st year, which the last few years I think have proven to be untrue. The amount of shutouts he had was lucky, unsustainable, and that’s the only thing people gave as a reason he should be looked at as “good”. His “ceiling”, as if he could get a shutout on any given night. The debate on who to start in the playoffs that year was very lively. Torts made the correct decision and choose Korpisalo, and there hasn’t been a correct decision regarding the goalies since.

I think I made my point.

 

[EspenK]

I want to draft a highly regarded goalie sometime so we have him under team control for a long time. I might have done that this year with Hrabal in the 2nd round.

Me too and obviously 3 other Gm's did with Hrabal, Augustine & Bjarnason all being picked there after we drafted another C who doesn't project as a top 6 guy in my mind. Time will tell but organizational G talent is very suspect.

 

[Jovavic]

I found it odd that Detroit used a rather high pick on a goalie when they used a first on Cossa recently

 

[CBJ goalie]

CBJ could win the Cup, Elvis could win Vezina and Conn Smythe.... And it still wouldn't be good enough. Or it was a fluke. Or the team in front of him was the reason for his success.

The strong dislike of him is irrational.

 

[Byrral]

The strong dislike of him is irrational.

I don't think it's that bad. On this board you have one outlier with a strong opinion and a couple other posters who want to see the team move on from him. Otherwise most posters are in the middle on him (still supportive but questioning his ability to be the guy now after last seasons disaster).

 

[thebus88]

CBJ could win the Cup, Elvis could win Vezina and Conn Smythe.... And it still wouldn't be good enough. Or it was a fluke. Or the team in front of him was the reason for his success.

The strong dislike of him is irrational.

Absolutely ridiculous, and comments like this are part of the reason that I respond in the ways I do.

Not only will none of those things happen with Elvis in net, if they DID, how could anybody possibly look at it as “not good enough”. Shutouts happen as a “fluke”. Hot rookie seasons happen as a “fluke”. Steve Mason’s happen. Long playoff runs, Vezina’s and Conn Smythe’s don’t just happen. And they won’t with Elvis.

Has Elvis been “good enough” to you?? How exactly do you determine what others would consider “good enough”?? Again, that you’re even putting “Vezina” or “Conn Smythe” in the same sentence as the dude is showing more bias from your end than mine, IMO.

 

[CBJ goalie]

I don't think it's that bad. On this board you have one outlier with a strong opinion and a couple other posters who want to see the team move on from him. Otherwise most posters are in the middle on him (still supportive but questioning his ability to be the guy now after last seasons disaster).

I think it's bad. Constantly see posts about trading him or buying him out.

 

[thebus88]

I think it's bad. Constantly see posts about trading him or buying him out.

Again, how outspoken I am about his deficiencies is 1 thing, being upset at comments just talking about trading him, or yes, even buying him out at that cap hit in relation to his performance, is a completely different thing.

Being overly positive in this situation is worse than being overly negative. The success of the CBJ is on his shoulders.

 

[Xoggz22]

I'm with Bus, never understood the love this guy gets. He's got a personality sure, but that's as far as it goes. His rookie season was adequate, not by any stretch of the word amazing. His contract was extremely undeserving as is his leash. Regardless it's coming to an crossroads this year. No way he can continue to be terrible and get off easy. This season is his NHL sink or swim season.

See... a very reasonable way to approach an opinion on a player.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

From the latest Portzline mailbag. This has been my thoughts all along.

What is the assessment of Manny Legace as a goalie coach? — Louis H.

This is such a difficult topic, even two years after the tragedy that took young Matiss Kivlenieks’ life. But there’s no way that going through something like that — witnessing it — doesn’t make a tragic impact on all involved. I’m not going to play amateur psychologist, but you can hear in the comments coming from Kekalainen and others that they want a level of professionalism in that role that was missing. The relationship between Merzlikins and Legace changed. What was teacher-student became close friends. Merzlikins, by his nature, needs guardrails. His former coaches will tell you that, too. It may have become difficult for Legace to get tough with him when it was needed. And maybe we can all understand that.

The Blue Jackets now have a much different personality in that role with Niklas Backstrom. He is quiet, cerebral and incredibly, tediously organized. The feeling is that Merzlikins needs some of that.

 

[NotWendell]

For a club with a former goalie as their President, the same guy who preached building brick-by-brick from the net out, it vexes me how little emphasis we're putting on that position.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

For a club with a former goalie as their President, the same guy who preached building brick-by-brick from the net out, it vexes me how little emphasis we're putting on that position.

Or maybe he knows a thing or 2 more about the team than we do.

I know those of us who spout off all of our musings on a website loaded with annoying pop up ads and pop up ads telling me to turn off my pop up blocker even though I did and clearly see more pop up ads clearly know more than hockey than those who don't.

 

[CBJx614]

For a club with a former goalie as their President, the same guy who preached building brick-by-brick from the net out, it vexes me how little emphasis we're putting on that position.

Or maybe he knows a thing or 2 more about the team than we do.

I know those of us who spout off all of our musings on a website loaded with annoying pop up ads and pop up ads telling me to turn off my pop up blocker even though I did and clearly see more pop up ads clearly know more than hockey than those who don't.

Or they just still believe in the guy and want to give him every opportunity to succeed after what happened to him before moving on.

I think everyone on the CBJ board agrees this is probably the final season in Columbus if he underperforms again.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

For a club with a former goalie as their President, the same guy who preached building brick-by-brick from the net out, it vexes me how little emphasis we're putting on that position.

fwiw i believe elvis's extension was signed during jd's time with the rangers

this is an online message board, though, so i refuse to look it up

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Or they just still believe in the guy and want to give him every opportunity to succeed after what happened to him before moving on.

I think everyone on the CBJ board agrees this is probably the final season in Columbus if he underperforms again.

Probably true, I still have faith this season will be an improvement. He will have no excuses if the team plays better in front of him with a more structured coach. This is the change of scenery he can get without actually changing teams, But more so that the buyout after next season is 1.75 for 6 years versus the 1.8 it would have ben for 8 years this summer.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I think everyone on the CBJ board agrees this is probably the final season in Columbus if he underperforms again.

yeah at this point it's going one of three directions:

1. they manage to trade him this summer (highly unlikely)
2. he plays well enough to establish trade value + gets traded in the next year
3. he still stinks + gets benched + gets bought out next summer

it's very, very, very hard to envision an outcome where he bounces back enough to be The Guy. it's heading towards a divorce next summer, whether that's via trade or buyout.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

yeah at this point it's going one of three directions:

1. they manage to trade him this summer (highly unlikely)
2. he plays well enough to establish trade value + gets traded in the next year
3. he still stinks + gets benched + gets bought out next summer

it's very, very, very hard to envision an outcome where he bounces back enough to be The Guy. it's heading towards a divorce next summer, whether that's via trade or buyout.

The fact that people even refuse to acknowledge the possibility he could have a legitimate season with the changes that have been made and become worth the money is mind blowing.

 

[CBJx614]

The fact that people even refuse to acknowledge the possibility he could have a legitimate season with the changes that have been made and become worth the money is mind blowing.

My thoughts exactly. Never underestimate what new faces can do to a workplace environment.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

yeah at this point it's going one of three directions:

1. they manage to trade him this summer (highly unlikely)
2. he plays well enough to establish trade value + gets traded in the next year
3. he still stinks + gets benched + gets bought out next summer

it's very, very, very hard to envision an outcome where he bounces back enough to be The Guy. it's heading towards a divorce next summer, whether that's via trade or buyout.

Why? How different is your #2 option vs your very very very hard to envision option? I mean maybe I’m short-selling what it means to be “the man” but I’d think it would actually be easier to re-establish internal value vs external.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

I'm with Bus, never understood the love this guy gets. He's got a personality sure, but that's as far as it goes. His rookie season was adequate, not by any stretch of the word amazing. His contract was extremely undeserving as is his leash. Regardless it's coming to an crossroads this year. No way he can continue to be terrible and get off easy. This season is his NHL sink or swim season.

His personality and literally his name buy him a lot of subconscious bias from fans.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The fact that people even refuse to acknowledge the possibility he could have a legitimate season with the changes that have been made and become worth the money is mind blowing.

Why? How different is your #2 option vs your very very very hard to envision option? I mean maybe I’m short-selling what it means to be “the man” but I’d think it would actually be easier to re-establish internal value vs external.

i'm not refusing to acknowledge that possibility. i think it's plausible. but given how portzline and others have written about him over the last year (work ethic concerns, conditioning issues, etc.) i think that they'd trade him if that happens. even if he plays well enough to be worth the money (again, this is plausible!), i don't think the front office will trust him to keep it up.

in other words: if he has a good season, i think the cbj brass would still much sooner trade him than keep him.

has less to do with production/value and more to do with trust + ability to move him at that point.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

i'm not refusing to acknowledge that possibility. i think it's plausible. but given how portzline and others have written about him over the last year (work ethic concerns, conditioning issues, etc.) i think that they'd trade him if that happens. even if he plays well enough to be worth the money (again, this is plausible!), i don't think the front office will trust him to keep it up.

in other words: if he has a good season, i think the cbj brass would still much sooner trade him than keep him.

has less to do with production/value and more to do with trust + ability to move him at that point.

I'm still having trouble following. If he has a rebound season and proves he can do it, you'd still want to trade him because you don't trust him and replace him with another guy hasn't proven he can fit in and be trusted in the framework of this team?

If he starts to rebuild trust wouldn't you want to keep a guy who can produce no matter who it is? If the front office works that way with players it just seems like a defeatist attitude to always see what could go wrong with a person. We aren't exactly talking about the stock market where where you sell high. We'd still need a replacement in return of equal or greater value to make it a feasible exchange.